WUSTL UMN or GULC?

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str8shot122

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WUSTL UMN or GULC?

Postby str8shot122 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:49 pm

Georgetown is a bit misleading. I was placed on the special preffered waitlist. I'm told I have a good chance of getting in with no money come May if I unequivocally agree to GULC. UMN gave me a half scholarship. But I think I can negotiate. I visited UMN and really liked the town. WUSTL looks nice and there's the rankings difference. But I'm also not sure if I'll get scholarships there. I'm a married older student just getting out of military. I just want to go to the school that will set me up to have a semi comfortable life (I'm not attached to Biglaw). I go back and forth every hour whether I'm willing to go into significant debt. Military paid for undergrad so I don't have to worry about that. Wife is also an upwardly mobile professional who has a good job. Even though she'll have to leave her current job for all these options, I think she'll be able to get another one.

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guynourmin

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Re: WUSTL UMN or GULC?

Postby guynourmin » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:02 pm

GULC at sticker is a terrible idea, WUSTL at sticker is a worse one. Assuming your wife can carry all your living expenses, you're still going to be over 80k in debt from Minnesota, which isn't nothing.

oh, and viewtopic.php?f=1&t=206299

cavalier1138

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Re: WUSTL UMN or GULC?

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:08 pm

What is a "semi-comfortable" life for you?

str8shot122

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Re: WUSTL UMN or GULC?

Postby str8shot122 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:13 pm

guybourdin wrote:GULC at sticker is a terrible idea, WUSTL at sticker is a worse one. Assuming your wife can carry all your living expenses, you're still going to be over 80k in debt from Minnesota, which isn't nothing.

oh, and viewtopic.php?f=1&t=206299


Can you explain?

str8shot122

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Re: WUSTL UMN or GULC?

Postby str8shot122 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:19 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:What is a "semi-comfortable" life for you?


Yeah. I don't mind carrying debt as long as I can work towards paying it off. I don't have unreasonably high expectations for life after law school. As long as I can get a job, I'm confident I can make it work.

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Re: WUSTL UMN or GULC?

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:43 pm

str8shot122 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:What is a "semi-comfortable" life for you?


Yeah. I don't mind carrying debt as long as I can work towards paying it off. I don't have unreasonably high expectations for life after law school. As long as I can get a job, I'm confident I can make it work.


Ok, that didn't even come close to answering the actual question. I'm not asking about your confidence level. I'm asking you what you think a "semi-comfortable" life entails. Hint: I'm looking for you to name an actual salary that you think would make life semi-comfortable.

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floatie

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Re: WUSTL UMN or GULC?

Postby floatie » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:45 pm

Do you have any scholarship offers that you can use to get Minnesota to reconsider yours? There's a list of schools they'll consider offers from. Beyond that, I would think that if your numbers are enough for the special preferred waitlist, you'll at least get something from WUSTL. Re-evaluate once you have an offer in hand.

str8shot122

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Re: WUSTL UMN or GULC?

Postby str8shot122 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:53 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
str8shot122 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:What is a "semi-comfortable" life for you?


Yeah. I don't mind carrying debt as long as I can work towards paying it off. I don't have unreasonably high expectations for life after law school. As long as I can get a job, I'm confident I can make it work.


Ok, that didn't even come close to answering the actual question. I'm not asking about your confidence level. I'm asking you what you think a "semi-comfortable" life entails. Hint: I'm looking for you to name an actual salary that you think would make life semi-comfortable.


Geeze am I in trouble drill sergeant lol? Ok 75-100k

cavalier1138

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Re: WUSTL UMN or GULC?

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:59 pm

str8shot122 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
str8shot122 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:What is a "semi-comfortable" life for you?


Yeah. I don't mind carrying debt as long as I can work towards paying it off. I don't have unreasonably high expectations for life after law school. As long as I can get a job, I'm confident I can make it work.


Ok, that didn't even come close to answering the actual question. I'm not asking about your confidence level. I'm asking you what you think a "semi-comfortable" life entails. Hint: I'm looking for you to name an actual salary that you think would make life semi-comfortable.


Geeze am I in trouble drill sergeant lol? Ok 75-100k


Ok, so you need to do some salary research on the legal profession. There aren't really any jobs in that salary range for fresh graduates. You either make biglaw money, or you make $45-60k. The only "in-between" salaries are found at pretty competitive government jobs, which you haven't indicated a strong interest in. And this is why other people are telling you that you can't go into significant debt for the schools you've listed. Even Georgetown doesn't give you a great shot at biglaw, and your other job options won't pay you enough to pay off the debt.

So you can be as confident as you like, but in reality, you can't just get "a job" and make loan payments work.

str8shot122

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Re: WUSTL UMN or GULC?

Postby str8shot122 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:17 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
str8shot122 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
str8shot122 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:What is a "semi-comfortable" life for you?


Yeah. I don't mind carrying debt as long as I can work towards paying it off. I don't have unreasonably high expectations for life after law school. As long as I can get a job, I'm confident I can make it work.


Ok, that didn't even come close to answering the actual question. I'm not asking about your confidence level. I'm asking you what you think a "semi-comfortable" life entails. Hint: I'm looking for you to name an actual salary that you think would make life semi-comfortable.


Geeze am I in trouble drill sergeant lol? Ok 75-100k


Ok, so you need to do some salary research on the legal profession. There aren't really any jobs in that salary range for fresh graduates. You either make biglaw money, or you make $45-60k. The only "in-between" salaries are found at pretty competitive government jobs, which you haven't indicated a strong interest in. And this is why other people are telling you that you can't go into significant debt for the schools you've listed. Even Georgetown doesn't give you a great shot at biglaw, and your other job options won't pay you enough to pay off the debt.

So you can be as confident as you like, but in reality, you can't just get "a job" and make loan payments work.


Thanks for the advice. I really want to practice law. But it looks like I shouldn't got to any of these schools. I guess I will stay in the military.

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Re: WUSTL UMN or GULC?

Postby waldorf » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:23 pm

str8shot122 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
str8shot122 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
str8shot122 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:What is a "semi-comfortable" life for you?


Yeah. I don't mind carrying debt as long as I can work towards paying it off. I don't have unreasonably high expectations for life after law school. As long as I can get a job, I'm confident I can make it work.


Ok, that didn't even come close to answering the actual question. I'm not asking about your confidence level. I'm asking you what you think a "semi-comfortable" life entails. Hint: I'm looking for you to name an actual salary that you think would make life semi-comfortable.


Geeze am I in trouble drill sergeant lol? Ok 75-100k


Ok, so you need to do some salary research on the legal profession. There aren't really any jobs in that salary range for fresh graduates. You either make biglaw money, or you make $45-60k. The only "in-between" salaries are found at pretty competitive government jobs, which you haven't indicated a strong interest in. And this is why other people are telling you that you can't go into significant debt for the schools you've listed. Even Georgetown doesn't give you a great shot at biglaw, and your other job options won't pay you enough to pay off the debt.

So you can be as confident as you like, but in reality, you can't just get "a job" and make loan payments work.


Thanks for the advice. I really want to practice law. But it looks like I shouldn't got to any of these schools. I guess I will stay in the military.


What are your stats? If you're not comfortable sharing, PM me. You should get significant money from Wash U.

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trebekismyhero

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Re: WUSTL UMN or GULC?

Postby trebekismyhero » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:34 pm

You said the military paid for undergrad, does that mean you've used up all your GI money?

Cavalier is right about the bimodal nature of salaries after law school. If you have GI money left, can have little debt, are comfortable in Minneapolis or St. Louis and the surrounding areas, and ok with making more like 50-65k then UMN or WUSTL are good choices. As a veteran you will also have an advantage in Federal and most State gov't hiring if that was something that you wanted.

I wouldn't consider GULC unless you have GI money left. GULC at sticker is a recipe for disaster.

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guynourmin

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Re: WUSTL UMN or GULC?

Postby guynourmin » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:38 pm

str8shot122 wrote:
Thanks for the advice. I really want to practice law. But it looks like I shouldn't got to any of these schools. I guess I will stay in the military.


Is there a reason you couldn't try to swing practicing in the military? That might give you that mythical salary you're talking about here. That's all cavalier was trying to point out to you: the vast majority of legal jobs available to people in those first few years out of law school are either 150k+ or under 60-65k, and if you are going in hoping to not work biglaw hours and make a comfortable 80k, you are almost definitely going to be letdown.

str8shot122

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Re: WUSTL UMN or GULC?

Postby str8shot122 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:42 pm

trebekismyhero wrote:You said the military paid for undergrad, does that mean you've used up all your GI money?

Cavalier is right about the bimodal nature of salaries after law school. If you have GI money left, can have little debt, are comfortable in Minneapolis or St. Louis and the surrounding areas, and ok with making more like 50-65k then UMN or WUSTL are good choices. As a veteran you will also have an advantage in Federal and most State gov't hiring if that was something that you wanted.

I wouldn't consider GULC unless you have GI money left. GULC at sticker is a recipe for disaster.


I was on an ROTC scholarship. So I'm trying to sort it out now. But, in short, i'm not sure. When you say disaster what's the worse case scenario? Also I read that biglaw placement at GULC is 40%. Wouldn't that help with debt if if I can stay in the top 40% of my class?

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Re: WUSTL UMN or GULC?

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:44 pm

str8shot122 wrote:I was on an ROTC scholarship. So I'm trying to sort it out now. But, in short, i'm not sure. When you say disaster what's the worse case scenario? Also I read that biglaw placement at GULC is 40%. Wouldn't that help with debt if if I can stay in the top 40% of my class?


Yes, but you can only count on being at the median for your school. Georgetown has the lowest biglaw placement numbers for the T14, which is why a lot of people who might advocate going into a fair amount of debt for other T14 schools wouldn't advocate it there.

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usn26

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Re: WUSTL UMN or GULC?

Postby usn26 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 1:48 pm

str8shot122 wrote:
trebekismyhero wrote:You said the military paid for undergrad, does that mean you've used up all your GI money?

Cavalier is right about the bimodal nature of salaries after law school. If you have GI money left, can have little debt, are comfortable in Minneapolis or St. Louis and the surrounding areas, and ok with making more like 50-65k then UMN or WUSTL are good choices. As a veteran you will also have an advantage in Federal and most State gov't hiring if that was something that you wanted.

I wouldn't consider GULC unless you have GI money left. GULC at sticker is a recipe for disaster.


I was on an ROTC scholarship. So I'm trying to sort it out now. But, in short, i'm not sure. When you say disaster what's the worse case scenario? Also I read that biglaw placement at GULC is 40%. Wouldn't that help with debt if if I can stay in the top 40% of my class?


If you did ROTC you should have GIB left and be able to go to GULC for free, and it would clearly be the best option (of the choices presented).



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