George Washington v. Washington and Lee Forum

[ponderingmeerkat]

So are you saying that nobody who goes to Washington m and Lee gets a decent job?

Also, W&L DOES meet my goal of graduating with less than $100k in debt. So I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion in that regard.

Neither option will meet your stated goals:

I'm just hoping to find a decent well-paying job after graduation.

A decent legal education that will enable me to graduate with a less than $100k

Sit out a cycle and retake or don't go. Simple.

"Well paying" is nebulous.

Could you, potentially, bust your ass, finish top third at W&L and get some rural ADA gig that pays, I dunno, 45K a year? Sure. Throw on top of that 75K of debt, and you'll be living in a studio in Winchester and eating Kraft Blue Box three nights a week for the three years after graduation.

Could you, potentially bust your ass, finish top third at GWU and land a mid-law gig in Tyson's Corner paying, I dunno, 90K+bonus a year? Sure. Throw on top of that 300K of debt, and you'll be living in a studio in Wolf Trap, eating Kraft Blue Box three nights a week for the three years after graduation.

Is this "well paying" by your definition? Maybe. By mine, not so much. But you do you man.

I'd sit out, study my ass off for six months, and crush next Sept's LSAT. Pay yourself an hourly wage for your study time. Put in 500 hundred hours and get a 170+ and then go to GWU free or GULC with a significant scholarship. 300K of value for 500 hours of work = $600/hr. That's big law partner pay dude!! (Something you'll never see unless you retake.)

[Npret]

So do you only think big-law is only open to those in the T-14 schools essentially?

It's just much easier to get to biglaw from most of those schools, though obviously some more than others. Law school is full of hard working people who are graded on a mandatory curve. That means the number of As in the class is limited no matter how well everyone does on the exam. To be one of the top few people in your law school class is not something anyone should count on, though my experience is that few people heed that advice. Everyone thinks they will be top ten percent.

Be careful too that biglaw firms can hire staff attorneys, who are not paid the same as regular associates, but the school can count them as being employed by biglaw. I noticed at least a couple of staff attorneys in Washington & Lees LST report.

It's not impossible that a few students from Washington and Lee will end up in biglaw but the odds are too small.

[DogSitting]

Thanks for your input. I won't be utilizing it but I appreciate your help.

So are you saying that nobody who goes to Washington m and Lee gets a decent job?

Also, W&L DOES meet my goal of graduating with less than $100k in debt. So I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion in that regard.

Neither option will meet your stated goals:

I'm just hoping to find a decent well-paying job after graduation.

A decent legal education that will enable me to graduate with a less than $100k

Sit out a cycle and retake or don't go. Simple.

"Well paying" is nebulous.

Could you, potentially, bust your ass, finish top third at W&L and get some rural ADA gig that pays, I dunno, 45K a year? Sure. Throw on top of that 75K of debt, and you'll be living in a studio in Winchester and eating Kraft Blue Box three nights a week for the three years after graduation.

Could you, potentially bust your ass, finish top third at GWU and land a mid-law gig in Tyson's Corner paying, I dunno, 90K+bonus a year? Sure. Throw on top of that 300K of debt, and you'll be living in a studio in Wolf Trap, eating Kraft Blue Box three nights a week for the three years after graduation.

Is this "well paying" by your definition? Maybe. By mine, not so much. But you do you man.

I'd sit out, study my ass off for six months, and crush next Sept's LSAT. Pay yourself an hourly wage for your study time. Put in 500 hundred hours and get a 170+ and then go to GWU free or GULC with a significant scholarship. 300K of value for 500 hours of work = $600/hr. That's big law partner pay dude!! (Something you'll never see unless you retake.)

[DogSitting]

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter. I definitely know the employment odds of most schools. You hear the horror stories but you also hear the opposite depending on who you speak with. Interning at the public defenders office I hear nothing but complaints but those are the new grads who did shitty and couldn't find a paying job...

So do you only think big-law is only open to those in the T-14 schools essentially?

It's just much easier to get to biglaw from most of those schools, though obviously some more than others. Law school is full of hard working people who are graded on a mandatory curve. That means the number of As in the class is limited no matter how well everyone does on the exam. To be one of the top few people in your law school class is not something anyone should count on, though my experience is that few people heed that advice. Everyone thinks they will be top ten percent.

Be careful too that biglaw firms can hire staff attorneys, who are not paid the same as regular associates, but the school can count them as being employed by biglaw. I noticed at least a couple of staff attorneys in Washington & Lees LST report.

It's not impossible that a few students from Washington and Lee will end up in biglaw but the odds are too small.

[Npret]

You need to understand that law is a hugely saturated field with thousands of new attorneys graduating every year. There simply aren't enough jobs. Law schools could probably stop producing attorneys for 3 years and there still wouldn't be enough jobs.

Do not assume that people who don't have jobs did poorly at school. That's a mistake. If you hear people complaining about the job market, listen to what they re saying. Try to understand that it is likely an accurate portrayal.

At least 13% of Washington and Lee grads are unemployed. That doesn't mean they are the bottom 13%.

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter. I definitely know the employment odds of most schools. You hear the horror stories but you also hear the opposite depending on who you speak with. Interning at the public defenders office I hear nothing but complaints but those are the new grads who did shitty and couldn't find a paying job...

So do you only think big-law is only open to those in the T-14 schools essentially?

It's just much easier to get to biglaw from most of those schools, though obviously some more than others. Law school is full of hard working people who are graded on a mandatory curve. That means the number of As in the class is limited no matter how well everyone does on the exam. To be one of the top few people in your law school class is not something anyone should count on, though my experience is that few people heed that advice. Everyone thinks they will be top ten percent.

Be careful too that biglaw firms can hire staff attorneys, who are not paid the same as regular associates, but the school can count them as being employed by biglaw. I noticed at least a couple of staff attorneys in Washington & Lees LST report.

It's not impossible that a few students from Washington and Lee will end up in biglaw but the odds are too small.

[DogSitting]

The law field is highly saturated? Omg. I had absolutely no idea. I am so clueless. I cannot believe I have never heard such a thing before. Jobs aplenty? What an oversight. Thank you so much for opening my eyes. You are a man of true knowledge.

From your apocalyptic tone it seems as if nobody graduating outside a top 10 schools ever secures a job.

Get a grip dude. No matter what school you attend there are going to be employment opportunities that match up with how well you did in law school in combination with the schools reputation in that relative market.

Quit using this forum to act as a bearer of doom and trying to shit on people's career aspirations and actually give insightful advice. Your four years of undergrad give you far less insight than you'd like to think.

You need to understand that law is a hugely saturated field with thousands of new attorneys graduating every year. There simply aren't enough jobs. Law schools could probably stop producing attorneys for 3 years and there still wouldn't be enough jobs.

Do not assume that people who don't have jobs did poorly at school. That's a mistake. If you hear people complaining about the job market, listen to what they re saying.

At least 13% of Washington and Lee grads are unemployed. That doesn't mean they are the bottom 13%.

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter. I definitely know the employment odds of most schools. You hear the horror stories but you also hear the opposite depending on who you speak with. Interning at the public defenders office I hear nothing but complaints but those are the new grads who did shitty and couldn't find a paying job...

So do you only think big-law is only open to those in the T-14 schools essentially?

It's just much easier to get to biglaw from most of those schools, though obviously some more than others. Law school is full of hard working people who are graded on a mandatory curve. That means the number of As in the class is limited no matter how well everyone does on the exam. To be one of the top few people in your law school class is not something anyone should count on, though my experience is that few people heed that advice. Everyone thinks they will be top ten percent.

Be careful too that biglaw firms can hire staff attorneys, who are not paid the same as regular associates, but the school can count them as being employed by biglaw. I noticed at least a couple of staff attorneys in Washington & Lees LST report.

It's not impossible that a few students from Washington and Lee will end up in biglaw but the odds are too small.

[Npret]

Ok have a great life! Glad I spent my time trying to help you out!

The law field is highly saturated? Omg. I had absolutely no idea. I am so clueless. I cannot believe I have never heard such a thing before. Jobs aplenty? What an oversight. Thank you so much for opening my eyes. You are a man of true knowledge.

From your apocalyptic tone it seems as if nobody graduating outside a top 10 schools ever secures a job.

Get a grip dude. No matter what school you attend there are going to be employment opportunities that match up with how well you did in law school in combination with the schools reputation in that relative market.

Quit using this forum to act as a bearer of doom and trying to shit on people's career aspirations and actually give insightful advice. Your four years of undergrad give you far less insight than you'd like to think.

You need to understand that law is a hugely saturated field with thousands of new attorneys graduating every year. There simply aren't enough jobs. Law schools could probably stop producing attorneys for 3 years and there still wouldn't be enough jobs.

Do not assume that people who don't have jobs did poorly at school. That's a mistake. If you hear people complaining about the job market, listen to what they re saying.

At least 13% of Washington and Lee grads are unemployed. That doesn't mean they are the bottom 13%.

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter. I definitely know the employment odds of most schools. You hear the horror stories but you also hear the opposite depending on who you speak with. Interning at the public defenders office I hear nothing but complaints but those are the new grads who did shitty and couldn't find a paying job...

So do you only think big-law is only open to those in the T-14 schools essentially?

It's just much easier to get to biglaw from most of those schools, though obviously some more than others. Law school is full of hard working people who are graded on a mandatory curve. That means the number of As in the class is limited no matter how well everyone does on the exam. To be one of the top few people in your law school class is not something anyone should count on, though my experience is that few people heed that advice. Everyone thinks they will be top ten percent.

Be careful too that biglaw firms can hire staff attorneys, who are not paid the same as regular associates, but the school can count them as being employed by biglaw. I noticed at least a couple of staff attorneys in Washington & Lees LST report.

It's not impossible that a few students from Washington and Lee will end up in biglaw but the odds are too small.

[DogSitting]

Thanks

I appreciate your grounded advice.

Ok have a great life! Glad I spent my time trying to help you out!

The law field is highly saturated? Omg. I had absolutely no idea. I am so clueless. I cannot believe I have never heard such a thing before. Jobs aplenty? What an oversight. Thank you so much for opening my eyes. You are a man of true knowledge.

From your apocalyptic tone it seems as if nobody graduating outside a top 10 schools ever secures a job.

Get a grip dude. No matter what school you attend there are going to be employment opportunities that match up with how well you did in law school in combination with the schools reputation in that relative market.

Quit using this forum to act as a bearer of doom and trying to shit on people's career aspirations and actually give insightful advice. Your four years of undergrad give you far less insight than you'd like to think.

You need to understand that law is a hugely saturated field with thousands of new attorneys graduating every year. There simply aren't enough jobs. Law schools could probably stop producing attorneys for 3 years and there still wouldn't be enough jobs.

Do not assume that people who don't have jobs did poorly at school. That's a mistake. If you hear people complaining about the job market, listen to what they re saying.

At least 13% of Washington and Lee grads are unemployed. That doesn't mean they are the bottom 13%.

Thanks for your thoughts on the matter. I definitely know the employment odds of most schools. You hear the horror stories but you also hear the opposite depending on who you speak with. Interning at the public defenders office I hear nothing but complaints but those are the new grads who did shitty and couldn't find a paying job...

So do you only think big-law is only open to those in the T-14 schools essentially?

It's just much easier to get to biglaw from most of those schools, though obviously some more than others. Law school is full of hard working people who are graded on a mandatory curve. That means the number of As in the class is limited no matter how well everyone does on the exam. To be one of the top few people in your law school class is not something anyone should count on, though my experience is that few people heed that advice. Everyone thinks they will be top ten percent.

Be careful too that biglaw firms can hire staff attorneys, who are not paid the same as regular associates, but the school can count them as being employed by biglaw. I noticed at least a couple of staff attorneys in Washington & Lees LST report.

It's not impossible that a few students from Washington and Lee will end up in biglaw but the odds are too small.

[BobBoblaw]

Dude, you have a 168, unless you have a trash uGPA (what is it, btw?), you would almost certainly have gotten some t14s if you had blanketed them, and could get pretty good money from t20s if you applied. Any of those would be better than the two options you currently have. I find it kind of odd that GW offered you zilch with a 168, so I suspect there may be other aspects of your application that are dragging you down.

Either that or you are restricting yourself to either DC it Chicago, which seems kind of nuts to me, but OK.

I'd really throw an application at every school whose deadline hasn't passed from Emory on up, you could still end up with a much better offer this cycle.

Also, about the June retake, if you have the money and the spare time to study (maybe instead of your CC classes) there is take no downside. If you get a lower score, no one will care, but a higher one will make a good bargaining chip.

If you just can't be bothered, that's OK, but be honest with yourself about forgoing an action that could easily strengthen your position.

[DogSitting]

Hey,

Thanks for actual helpful advice. I get incredibly defensive about other advice which is basically "don't go to law school" which seems to be a lot of the advice here.

I did have a garbage undergrad GPA. I went to University of Michigan and fucked up my first two years due to some shit going on. I pulled it together and kicked ass later which is why I always include a GPA addendum explaining my situation.

I don't know if blanketing will be useful with the garbage GPA.

I WILL certainly consider taking the LSAT again. It might not happen but why not, as you said.

I am restricting myself to what I know haha. I'm from the D.C. and Chicago areas. So I guess that's a comfort thing. Where else could I get in with a 168; 2.8 GPA; and 5 years work experience in Japan?

Dude, you have a 168, unless you have a trash uGPA (what is it, btw?), you would almost certainly have gotten some t14s if you had blanketed them, and could get pretty good money from t20s if you applied. Any of those would be better than the two options you currently have. I find it kind of odd that GW offered you zilch with a 168, so I suspect there may be other aspects of your application that are dragging you down.

Either that or you are restricting yourself to either DC it Chicago, which seems kind of nuts to me, but OK.

I'd really throw an application at every school whose deadline hasn't passed from Emory on up, you could still end up with a much better offer this cycle.

Also, about the June retake, if you have the money and the spare time to study (maybe instead of your CC classes) there is take no downside. If you get a lower score, no one will care, but a higher one will make a good bargaining chip.

If you just can't be bothered, that's OK, but be honest with yourself about forgoing an action that could easily strengthen your position.

[Sombra2017]

Current 1L here at t-20. Look OP, everyone here is trying to give you honest advice about the realities of the legal market. It's not that anyone doubts your ability to do well in law school, it's just that it's not a good bet to say "I'm going to bust my ass and finish in the top 20% of my class so I'll be able to find a decent job." It's simply not that easy. Law school is graded on a strict curve, and everyone words hard. Almost everyone really wants those prestigious jobs. So, the best thing to do is to play the odds at a good school with as little debt as possible. The options you gave really aren't good. GW is not worth the sticker price unless you have rich parents. Wash Lee is good if you have a full ride or close to it and don't mind settling for something less than big law. It's frustrating applying and having to wait so and retake if need be, but this is your future. Make sure you know what you are getting into. Everyone is simply trying to tell you the reality of the legal environment.

Best of luck to you.

[DogSitting]

So it definitely seems like Washington and Lee is the better option. If I only have to pay $8k a year in tuition plus living expenses it makes a lot more sense.

I understand people are trying to help. I just get defensive when people give obvious and or unhelpful advice that's basically "don't go".

Thanks a lot! Have a great weekend!

Current 1L here at t-20. Look OP, everyone here is trying to give you honest advice about the realities of the legal market. It's not that anyone doubts your ability to do well in law school, it's just that it's not a good bet to say "I'm going to bust my ass and finish in the top 20% of my class so I'll be able to find a decent job." It's simply not that easy. Law school is graded on a strict curve, and everyone words hard. Almost everyone really wants those prestigious jobs. So, the best thing to do is to play the odds at a good school with as little debt as possible. The options you gave really aren't good. GW is not worth the sticker price unless you have rich parents. Wash Lee is good if you have a full ride or close to it and don't mind settling for something less than big law. It's frustrating applying and having to wait so and retake if need be, but this is your future. Make sure you know what you are getting into. Everyone is simply trying to tell you the reality of the legal environment.

Best of luck to you.

[BobBoblaw]

Well, that's TLS for you. I think you are correct that your GPA makes you an extreme long shot at even lower T14s, but I do think it's possible that some of the t20s might really need that 168 to maintain their 75th percentile. WUSTL has a 25th GPA of like 3.15, which means one in four people had A WORSE GPA than 3.16.

It will depend on writing really convincing PS and addenda, and that is why blanketing is important, because it just increases the odds that some adcomm will like your narrative or just really need another high LSAT. I think you can safely exclude the t6, though, and deadlines have probably past for most of the other T14s, though I'm too lazy to actually look that up.

I also think that having put some distance between that uGPA and your current self is helpful, if you can point to aspects of your work experience that prove you are no longer a risk, academically.

Good luck in any case with your cycle!

Hey,

Thanks for actual helpful advice. I get incredibly defensive about other advice which is basically "don't go to law school" which seems to be a lot of the advice here.

I did have a garbage undergrad GPA. I went to University of Michigan and fucked up my first two years due to some shit going on. I pulled it together and kicked ass later which is why I always include a GPA addendum explaining my situation.

I don't know if blanketing will be useful with the garbage GPA.

I WILL certainly consider taking the LSAT again. It might not happen but why not, as you said.

I am restricting myself to what I know haha. I'm from the D.C. and Chicago areas. So I guess that's a comfort thing. Where else could I get in with a 168; 2.8 GPA; and 5 years work experience in Japan?

Dude, you have a 168, unless you have a trash uGPA (what is it, btw?), you would almost certainly have gotten some t14s if you had blanketed them, and could get pretty good money from t20s if you applied. Any of those would be better than the two options you currently have. I find it kind of odd that GW offered you zilch with a 168, so I suspect there may be other aspects of your application that are dragging you down.

Either that or you are restricting yourself to either DC it Chicago, which seems kind of nuts to me, but OK.

I'd really throw an application at every school whose deadline hasn't passed from Emory on up, you could still end up with a much better offer this cycle.

Also, about the June retake, if you have the money and the spare time to study (maybe instead of your CC classes) there is take no downside. If you get a lower score, no one will care, but a higher one will make a good bargaining chip.

If you just can't be bothered, that's OK, but be honest with yourself about forgoing an action that could easily strengthen your position.

[blackmamba8]

WUSTL throws out big time scholarships to people with high LSAT scores and low GPAs. Idk when their deadline is but I think it'd be worth the application cost if it's not too late.

[cavalier1138]

So it definitely seems like Washington and Lee is the better option. If I only have to pay $8k a year in tuition plus living expenses it makes a lot more sense.

I understand people are trying to help. I just get defensive when people give obvious and or unhelpful advice that's basically "don't go".

Thanks a lot! Have a great weekend!

I understand. I get defensive when people tell me good advice too, because if it's not what I want to hear, it makes sense to fly into a blind rage and start insulting everyone in sight. It's totally reasonable, and you should feel great about doing it.

But back in reality: wake the hell up. You clearly want biglaw, even though your initial post hedged around it. That outcome will not happen at either of these schools, and you're gambling stupid amounts of money based on the anecdotal evidence of some success stories. No one is telling you that you cannot get good outcomes from these schools. What you are being told is that you cannot get the outcome that you want from these schools. I know that you're so old and so above all this, but you're making a financially disastrous decision in deciding that you absolutely must, at all costs, attend law school this year. You aren't that old. Waiting another year won't kill you. Not waiting another year might overload you with a stupid amount of debt and regrets.

Incidentally, your other reasons for not being able to retake are easily alleviated: stop "pre-studying" for school. Any current or former law student will tell you that there is no bigger waste of time than trying to learn the material in advance.

[Rigo]

Has the deadline for WUSTL passed? If not, throw them an app NOW.

It will be a solid option and they'll shell out way more for your 168 despite your 2.8 than any other reputable school.

[BobBoblaw]

Has the deadline for WUSTL passed? If not, throw them an app NOW.

It will be a solid option and they'll shell out way more for your 168 despite your 2.8 than any other reputable school.

+100000000

[DogSitting]

Blind rage? Lmao

So it definitely seems like Washington and Lee is the better option. If I only have to pay $8k a year in tuition plus living expenses it makes a lot more sense.

I understand people are trying to help. I just get defensive when people give obvious and or unhelpful advice that's basically "don't go".

Thanks a lot! Have a great weekend!

I understand. I get defensive when people tell me good advice too, because if it's not what I want to hear, it makes sense to fly into a blind rage and start insulting everyone in sight. It's totally reasonable, and you should feel great about doing it.

But back in reality: wake the hell up. You clearly want biglaw, even though your initial post hedged around it. That outcome will not happen at either of these schools, and you're gambling stupid amounts of money based on the anecdotal evidence of some success stories. No one is telling you that you cannot get good outcomes from these schools. What you are being told is that you cannot get the outcome that you want from these schools. I know that you're so old and so above all this, but you're making a financially disastrous decision in deciding that you absolutely must, at all costs, attend law school this year. You aren't that old. Waiting another year won't kill you. Not waiting another year might overload you with a stupid amount of debt and regrets.

Incidentally, your other reasons for not being able to retake are easily alleviated: stop "pre-studying" for school. Any current or former law student will tell you that there is no bigger waste of time than trying to learn the material in advance.

[DogSitting]

All right, I'll give it a shot!

Has the deadline for WUSTL passed? If not, throw them an app NOW.

It will be a solid option and they'll shell out way more for your 168 despite your 2.8 than any other reputable school.

[cavalier1138]

Blind rage? Lmao

So it definitely seems like Washington and Lee is the better option. If I only have to pay $8k a year in tuition plus living expenses it makes a lot more sense.

I understand people are trying to help. I just get defensive when people give obvious and or unhelpful advice that's basically "don't go".

Thanks a lot! Have a great weekend!

I understand. I get defensive when people tell me good advice too, because if it's not what I want to hear, it makes sense to fly into a blind rage and start insulting everyone in sight. It's totally reasonable, and you should feel great about doing it.

But back in reality: wake the hell up. You clearly want biglaw, even though your initial post hedged around it. That outcome will not happen at either of these schools, and you're gambling stupid amounts of money based on the anecdotal evidence of some success stories. No one is telling you that you cannot get good outcomes from these schools. What you are being told is that you cannot get the outcome that you want from these schools. I know that you're so old and so above all this, but you're making a financially disastrous decision in deciding that you absolutely must, at all costs, attend law school this year. You aren't that old. Waiting another year won't kill you. Not waiting another year might overload you with a stupid amount of debt and regrets.

Incidentally, your other reasons for not being able to retake are easily alleviated: stop "pre-studying" for school. Any current or former law student will tell you that there is no bigger waste of time than trying to learn the material in advance.

I'm glad that was your big takeaway. Again, just a superb job really understanding the information people are giving you, and a fantastic level of self-awareness. You're going to do great.

[DogSitting]

Since I've already said I cannot wait another year, there isn't much to takeaway from the post that recommended I wait another cycle. I get it. I should wait another cycle and score in the 170's. Not gonna happen.

Thanks though

Blind rage? Lmao

So it definitely seems like Washington and Lee is the better option. If I only have to pay $8k a year in tuition plus living expenses it makes a lot more sense.

I understand people are trying to help. I just get defensive when people give obvious and or unhelpful advice that's basically "don't go".

Thanks a lot! Have a great weekend!

I understand. I get defensive when people tell me good advice too, because if it's not what I want to hear, it makes sense to fly into a blind rage and start insulting everyone in sight. It's totally reasonable, and you should feel great about doing it.

But back in reality: wake the hell up. You clearly want biglaw, even though your initial post hedged around it. That outcome will not happen at either of these schools, and you're gambling stupid amounts of money based on the anecdotal evidence of some success stories. No one is telling you that you cannot get good outcomes from these schools. What you are being told is that you cannot get the outcome that you want from these schools. I know that you're so old and so above all this, but you're making a financially disastrous decision in deciding that you absolutely must, at all costs, attend law school this year. You aren't that old. Waiting another year won't kill you. Not waiting another year might overload you with a stupid amount of debt and regrets.

Incidentally, your other reasons for not being able to retake are easily alleviated: stop "pre-studying" for school. Any current or former law student will tell you that there is no bigger waste of time than trying to learn the material in advance.

I'm glad that was your big takeaway. Again, just a superb job really understanding the information people are giving you, and a fantastic level of self-awareness. You're going to do great.

[grades??]

Since I've already said I cannot wait another year, there isn't much to takeaway from the post that recommended I wait another cycle. I get it. I should wait another cycle and score in the 170's. Not gonna happen.

Thanks though

Blind rage? Lmao

So it definitely seems like Washington and Lee is the better option. If I only have to pay $8k a year in tuition plus living expenses it makes a lot more sense.

I understand people are trying to help. I just get defensive when people give obvious and or unhelpful advice that's basically "don't go".

Thanks a lot! Have a great weekend!

I understand. I get defensive when people tell me good advice too, because if it's not what I want to hear, it makes sense to fly into a blind rage and start insulting everyone in sight. It's totally reasonable, and you should feel great about doing it.

But back in reality: wake the hell up. You clearly want biglaw, even though your initial post hedged around it. That outcome will not happen at either of these schools, and you're gambling stupid amounts of money based on the anecdotal evidence of some success stories. No one is telling you that you cannot get good outcomes from these schools. What you are being told is that you cannot get the outcome that you want from these schools. I know that you're so old and so above all this, but you're making a financially disastrous decision in deciding that you absolutely must, at all costs, attend law school this year. You aren't that old. Waiting another year won't kill you. Not waiting another year might overload you with a stupid amount of debt and regrets.

Incidentally, your other reasons for not being able to retake are easily alleviated: stop "pre-studying" for school. Any current or former law student will tell you that there is no bigger waste of time than trying to learn the material in advance.

I'm glad that was your big takeaway. Again, just a superb job really understanding the information people are giving you, and a fantastic level of self-awareness. You're going to do great.

You can always wait another year. You are just too conceded to see what all the posters are telling you are objectively bad choices. You can still get t14 if you just score 4 more points on a test. But anyway, good luck at W&L and have fun trying to find a job. You will need it. Not trying to be a dick on purpose, but you clearly don't like to listen to reason so I figured an emotional appeal would be worth a shot.

[BigZuck]

It doesn't sound like you have a strong desire to be a lawyer or any real direction when it comes to what you want to do or where you want to do it. If you acquire those things down the line then great, you can revisit the idea of going to law school. But for now, don't go to law school.

[DogSitting]

It doesn't sound like you have a strong desire to be a lawyer or any real direction when it comes to what you want to do or where you want to do it. If you acquire those things down the line then great, you can revisit the idea of going to law school. But for now, don't go to law school.

Thanks bud!

[DogSitting]

Thanks truly for your attitude. It definitely made your emotional appeal much stronger.

Since I've already said I cannot wait another year, there isn't much to takeaway from the post that recommended I wait another cycle. I get it. I should wait another cycle and score in the 170's. Not gonna happen.

Thanks though

Blind rage? Lmao

So it definitely seems like Washington and Lee is the better option. If I only have to pay $8k a year in tuition plus living expenses it makes a lot more sense.

I understand people are trying to help. I just get defensive when people give obvious and or unhelpful advice that's basically "don't go".

Thanks a lot! Have a great weekend!

I understand. I get defensive when people tell me good advice too, because if it's not what I want to hear, it makes sense to fly into a blind rage and start insulting everyone in sight. It's totally reasonable, and you should feel great about doing it.

But back in reality: wake the hell up. You clearly want biglaw, even though your initial post hedged around it. That outcome will not happen at either of these schools, and you're gambling stupid amounts of money based on the anecdotal evidence of some success stories. No one is telling you that you cannot get good outcomes from these schools. What you are being told is that you cannot get the outcome that you want from these schools. I know that you're so old and so above all this, but you're making a financially disastrous decision in deciding that you absolutely must, at all costs, attend law school this year. You aren't that old. Waiting another year won't kill you. Not waiting another year might overload you with a stupid amount of debt and regrets.

Incidentally, your other reasons for not being able to retake are easily alleviated: stop "pre-studying" for school. Any current or former law student will tell you that there is no bigger waste of time than trying to learn the material in advance.

I'm glad that was your big takeaway. Again, just a superb job really understanding the information people are giving you, and a fantastic level of self-awareness. You're going to do great.

You can always wait another year. You are just too conceded to see what all the posters are telling you are objectively bad choices. You can still get t14 if you just score 4 more points on a test. But anyway, good luck at W&L and have fun trying to find a job. You will need it. Not trying to be a dick on purpose, but you clearly don't like to listen to reason so I figured an emotional appeal would be worth a shot.