George Washington v. Washington and Lee

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Choices

Washington & Lee
15
63%
George Washington
9
38%
 
Total votes: 24

DogSitting
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:48 pm

George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby DogSitting » Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:55 pm

Hey everyone,

Does anyone have any advice on paying full tuition at a top tier school vs. getting nearly a full ride at a pretty good school? (George Washington v Washington and Lee)

Specifically, I've gotten admitted into George Washington but with zero merit scholarships. There is still the possibility of a need-based grant. However, Washington & Lee gave me a $112,500 scholarship with the only condition of staying in good academic standing.

Please DO NOT give the advice that I should wait out this admissions cycle and retake my LSAT. That is not happening so it's not useful to hear even remotely.

Thanks!
Last edited by DogSitting on Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:36 pm, edited 4 times in total.

blackmamba8
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:53 pm

Re: Top Tier v. Pretty Good

Postby blackmamba8 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:14 pm

What are your career goals? You could probably rationalize paying sticker for Northwestern but sticker for GW would be a terrible terrible terrible decision.

DogSitting
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: Top Tier v. Pretty Good

Postby DogSitting » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:29 pm

What is wrong with GW?



blackmamba8 wrote:What are your career goals? You could probably rationalize paying sticker for Northwestern but sticker for GW would be a terrible terrible terrible decision.

BigZuck
Posts: 11314
Joined: Tue Sep 04, 2012 9:53 am

Re: Top Tier v. Pretty Good

Postby BigZuck » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:36 pm

Be specific about the schools and costs if you want people to give you advice

GW is an ok school but full sticker is like 300K debt. It's not worth that.

DogSitting
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: Top Tier v. Pretty Good

Postby DogSitting » Sat Feb 11, 2017 8:42 pm

Thanks! I've updated.

BigZuck wrote:Be specific about the schools and costs if you want people to give you advice

GW is an ok school but full sticker is like 300K debt. It's not worth that.

blackmamba8
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:53 pm

Re: Top Tier v. Pretty Good

Postby blackmamba8 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:28 pm

DogSitting wrote:What is wrong with GW?



blackmamba8 wrote:What are your career goals? You could probably rationalize paying sticker for Northwestern but sticker for GW would be a terrible terrible terrible decision.

Nothing, if someone else is paying for most or all of your law school. Your chances of getting a job that can repay $300k in loans are low if you go to GW.

DogSitting
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby DogSitting » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:40 pm

We are looking more at $200k if that makes any difference. Haha

cavalier1138
Posts: 2172
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:06 pm

DogSitting wrote:We are looking more at $200k if that makes any difference. Haha


No.

What are your career goals and where do you want to work? LSAT/GPA?

For someone who claims to have found valuable guidance here in the past, you have to know that people need specifics to offer specific advice.

blackmamba8
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:53 pm

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby blackmamba8 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:14 pm

Neither option is good. You should sit out this cycle and retake.

DogSitting
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby DogSitting » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:22 pm

Okay.

I'm just hoping to find a decent well-paying job after graduation. I'm not dead set on any location or field of law. Basically concerned with whether or not the law education and cost will pay off with its relative job placement potential.


cavalier1138 wrote:
DogSitting wrote:We are looking more at $200k if that makes any difference. Haha


No.

What are your career goals and where do you want to work? LSAT/GPA?

For someone who claims to have found valuable guidance here in the past, you have to know that people need specifics to offer specific advice.

DogSitting
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby DogSitting » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:22 pm

Cheers

blackmamba8 wrote:Neither option is good. You should sit out this cycle and retake.

blackmamba8
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:53 pm

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby blackmamba8 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:44 pm

DogSitting wrote:Cheers

blackmamba8 wrote:Neither option is good. You should sit out this cycle and retake.

I'm not trying to be a dick. You listed two options.. One is sticker at GW, the other is a $112,500 scholarship at Washington and Lee. Neither is a good option.. Washington and Lee estimates their COA at $67k a year. Even with your scholarship you're looking at a sizable amount of debt after you graduate.

https://law.wlu.edu/admissions/tuition- ... n-and-fees

DogSitting
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby DogSitting » Sat Feb 11, 2017 10:52 pm

Thanks. I actually had looked up the cost of attendance of Washington and Lee previously. A decent legal education that will enable me to graduate with a less than $100k still seems like a great option. Especially with how solid the Washington and Lee alumni network is in the D.C. area. The thing about cost of attendance is that you have a lot of wiggle room in keeping costs down. George Washington for instance calculates $1,900 a month for rooming based on their on-campus rates. However, you can easily and assuredly find a place for much cheaper than that, potentially knocking out as much as $10k a year in expenses.

Again, thanks for your advice and not being a dick.

blackmamba8 wrote:
DogSitting wrote:Cheers

blackmamba8 wrote:Neither option is good. You should sit out this cycle and retake.

I'm not trying to be a dick. You listed two options.. One is sticker at GW, the other is a $112,500 scholarship at Washington and Lee. Neither is a good option.. Washington and Lee estimates their COA at $67k a year. Even with your scholarship you're looking at a sizable amount of debt after you graduate.

https://law.wlu.edu/admissions/tuition- ... n-and-fees

Npret
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:42 am

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby Npret » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:07 pm

Between those two I would take Washington and Lee but be prepared for a low salary job or a nonlegal job.

According to LST only 72% of the class were employed and reported income.

Less than 40% made over $68,000. A good 12% were unemployed.

How much will your debt be at repayment? I can't calculate that just based on your scholarship.

No way you should debt finance sticker at GW and dig yourself into a huge financial pit. Here is an article Paul Campos wrote about trap schools. While biglaw hiring is greatly improved from the date of that article, the cost of attending GW has gone up as well. You don't sound like you want to be a biglaw lawyer, so don't go there.

http://insidethelawschoolscam.blogspot. ... s.html?m=1
Last edited by Npret on Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.

DogSitting
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby DogSitting » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:13 pm

Hey,

Thanks so much for the thoughtful reply. I really appreciate it.

I've looked at Washington and Lee's NALP report and they do have SOME top-law jobs available. Granted, I would have to be in the top of my class and that would be a fight but it does seem to be a possibility for some students.

The debt I would take on seems to be about $90k over three years. This could potentially be reduced if I find a decent job over the summer which would obviously go towards tuition.

The draw with GW though is the ability to network much easier. I'm not sure how much I'll have that opportunity in rural VA.

I absolutely want to work for a larger firm in the D.C. area. If that doesn't pan out my passion is immigration law which doesn't necessarily have the highest salary range.

Thanks again for your input! I really appreciate it. What is your current circumstance?



Npret wrote:Between those two I would take Washington and Lee but be prepared for a low salary job or a nonlegal job.

According to LST only 72% of the class were employed and reported income.

Less than 40% made over $68,000. A good 12% were unemployed.

How much will your debt be at repayment? I can't calculate that just based on your scholarship.

No way you should debt finance sticker at GW and dig yourself into a huge financial pit.

Npret
Posts: 454
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:42 am

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby Npret » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:25 pm

DogSitting wrote:Hey,

Thanks so much for the thoughtful reply. I really appreciate it.

I've looked at Washington and Lee's NALP report and they do have SOME top-law jobs available. Granted, I would have to be in the top of my class and that would be a fight but it does seem to be a possibility for some students.

The debt I would take on seems to be about $90k over three years. This could potentially be reduced if I find a decent job over the summer which would obviously go towards tuition.

The draw with GW though is the ability to network much easier. I'm not sure how much I'll have that opportunity in rural VA.

I absolutely want to work for a larger firm in the D.C. area. If that doesn't pan out my passion is immigration law which doesn't necessarily have the highest salary range.

Thanks again for your input! I really appreciate it. What is your current circumstance?


I'm a former biglaw corporate associate.

If you want big law I wouldn't go to either school. Yes it's possible for a few students, but so selective you would be foolish to count on it from Washington and Lee and you would be putting yourself to deeply into debt at GW.
I don't understand the thinking of borrowing hundreds of thousands of dollars to be a biglaw lawyer. It's so difficult to repay that much money. If you don't get the job, you will have gone into debt for nothing. Living in Washington won't get you a job on its own. To get biglaw, especially in DC, you need great grades. Networking is necessary but not close to sufficent for a biglaw job.

If you can live on a small salary at a small firm or with the circumstance you might not have a job, then maybe consider Washington and Lee.

DogSitting
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby DogSitting » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:29 pm

So do you only think big-law is only open to those in the T-14 schools essentially?

Npret wrote:
DogSitting wrote:Hey,

Thanks so much for the thoughtful reply. I really appreciate it.

I've looked at Washington and Lee's NALP report and they do have SOME top-law jobs available. Granted, I would have to be in the top of my class and that would be a fight but it does seem to be a possibility for some students.

The debt I would take on seems to be about $90k over three years. This could potentially be reduced if I find a decent job over the summer which would obviously go towards tuition.

The draw with GW though is the ability to network much easier. I'm not sure how much I'll have that opportunity in rural VA.

I absolutely want to work for a larger firm in the D.C. area. If that doesn't pan out my passion is immigration law which doesn't necessarily have the highest salary range.

Thanks again for your input! I really appreciate it. What is your current circumstance?


I'm a former biglaw corporate associate.

If you want big law I wouldn't go to either school. Yes it's possible for a few students, but so selective you would be foolish to count on it from Washington and Lee and you would be putting yourself to deeply into debt at GW.
I don't understand the thinking of borrowing hundreds of thousands of dollars to be a biglaw lawyer. It's so difficult to repay that much money. If you don't get the job, you will have gone into debt for nothing. Living in Washington won't get you a job on its own. To get biglaw, especially in DC, you need great grades. Networking is necessary but not close to sufficent for a biglaw job.

If you can live on a small salary at a small firm or with the circumstance you might not have a job, then maybe consider Washington and Lee.

BobBoblaw
Posts: 180
Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2016 11:43 am

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby BobBoblaw » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:45 pm

An earlier version of this post had you also getting into northwestern at sticker. If that actually happened, I'd do that or wait a cycle as others have suggested.

DogSitting
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby DogSitting » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:48 pm

Unfortunately, I can't wait a cycle at this point. I am a few years removed from undergrad and would have to retake my LSAT if I wanted to apply again. Waiting a cycle simply isn't an option if I wish to attend law school.

User avatar
ponderingmeerkat
Posts: 1646
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:24 am

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby ponderingmeerkat » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:53 pm

Neither option will meet your stated goals:

DogSitting wrote: I'm just hoping to find a decent well-paying job after graduation.

DogSitting wrote: A decent legal education that will enable me to graduate with a less than $100k



Sit out a cycle and retake or don't go. Simple.

blackmamba8
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:53 pm

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby blackmamba8 » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:55 pm

Did you get into Northwestern? If so, that at sticker is by far your best option. You could retake in June in hopes of raising your score and getting a scholarship offer from them.

DogSitting
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby DogSitting » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:55 pm

So are you saying that nobody who goes to Washington m and Lee gets a decent job?

Also, W&L DOES meet my goal of graduating with less than $100k in debt. So I'm not sure how you reached that conclusion in that regard.


ponderingmeerkat wrote:Neither option will meet your stated goals:

DogSitting wrote: I'm just hoping to find a decent well-paying job after graduation.

DogSitting wrote: A decent legal education that will enable me to graduate with a less than $100k



Sit out a cycle and retake or don't go. Simple.

DogSitting
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby DogSitting » Sat Feb 11, 2017 11:58 pm

Waiting to hear back from NU and Georgetown.

I won't be waiting out a cycle. I'm no longer at an age where waiting a cycle will produce any better results.

blackmamba8 wrote:Did you get into Northwestern? If so, that at sticker is by far your best option. You could retake in June in hopes of raising your score and getting a scholarship offer from them.

blackmamba8
Posts: 205
Joined: Thu Sep 08, 2016 2:53 pm

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby blackmamba8 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:01 am

DogSitting wrote:Waiting to hear back from NU and Georgetown.

I won't be waiting out a cycle. I'm no longer at an age where waiting a cycle will produce any better results.

blackmamba8 wrote:Did you get into Northwestern? If so, that at sticker is by far your best option. You could retake in June in hopes of raising your score and getting a scholarship offer from them.

Gotcha. You can retake in June for scholarships for this cycle. If you feel like you absolutely can't wait another cycle I still recommend retaking to try and improve your offers for this cycle.

DogSitting
Posts: 61
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2017 7:48 pm

Re: George Washington v. Washington and Lee

Postby DogSitting » Sun Feb 12, 2017 12:04 am

I really don't think I can retake at this point to be honest. I studied my ass off and took the test 5 years ago to get a 168. I would have to start from scratch studying for the LSAT. I'm working a full-time job, taking classes part-time at a community college to get my mind back in the student mindset and already doing a bit of pre-studying for school in the fall.

I don't mean to sound whiny but retaking the test in June won't do anything for me with an August start date :-/

blackmamba8 wrote:
DogSitting wrote:Waiting to hear back from NU and Georgetown.

I won't be waiting out a cycle. I'm no longer at an age where waiting a cycle will produce any better results.

blackmamba8 wrote:Did you get into Northwestern? If so, that at sticker is by far your best option. You could retake in June in hopes of raising your score and getting a scholarship offer from them.

Gotcha. You can retake in June for scholarships for this cycle. If you feel like you absolutely can't wait another cycle I still recommend retaking to try and improve your offers for this cycle.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: gilmoregirlrevival, kalvano, nhegde, tuesdayninja and 13 guests