Bar passing rate/distance factors?

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elev8tor

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Bar passing rate/distance factors?

Postby elev8tor » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:13 am

Planning ahead when considering a choice between attending two law schools:

Say that two programs are essentially identical in most factors (admission standards, net cost, local reputation, etc) except for bar passage rate and commute distance. Law School "A" is only a fifteen minute drive away but has about 60% passing. On the other hand, Law School "B" has about a 80% passing rate but is a 60 minute drive away (one-way). That's a difference of about 90 minutes round-trip per day. I own my current home, so it's not practical to sell and/or rent nearby Law School B, which has the higher bar passing rate.

In this case, would it be better saving those 90 minutes per day in commute by attending the local Law School "A" and devoting that saved time to coursework/preparation/studying to passing the bar? Or does a 60% pass rate at Law School "A" indicate that its professors/courses aren't as rigorous to bring out the best potential in students compared with Law School "B"?
Last edited by elev8tor on Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:19 am, edited 1 time in total.

cavalier1138

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Re: Bar passing rate/distance factors?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:18 am

Bar passage rate says more about the quality of admitted students than it does about the "rigor" of the curriculum. That said, a law school with a 60% pass rate is not a law school; it's a scam.

What schools are you considering? What scholarships have been offered? What is the cost of attendance? What is your GPA/LSAT? What are your career goals, and where do you want to work?

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Colonel_funkadunk

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Re: Bar passing rate/distance factors?

Postby Colonel_funkadunk » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:34 am

elev8tor wrote:That's a difference of about 90 minutes round-trip per day.


i did the math and this checks out.

CanadianWolf

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Re: Bar passing rate/distance factors?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:38 am

I agree with cavalier 1138's comments above.

OP: Why not just reveal the two law schools that you are considering ?

elev8tor

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Re: Bar passing rate/distance factors?

Postby elev8tor » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:52 am

I would like to focus on these two factors (bar passing rate vs. commute distance). It's understandable if TLS posters need more details and choose not to reply. I appreciate your time. Thank you.

CanadianWolf

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Re: Bar passing rate/distance factors?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:58 am

The main point of going to law school is to pass a bar. So I guess I agree with Colonel funkadunk. Plus, it seems as though we should be focusing more on the quality of your ride since the commute is a primary concern to you.

runinthefront

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Re: Bar passing rate/distance factors?

Postby runinthefront » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:14 am

If you're only picking between go to the one with 80% bar passage rate. The one with the 60% bar passage rate is a scam school, and most employers will know that/be reluctant to hire students from that school.

You should live closer than an two-hour RT commute from law school though. 1L is harder than you think. If you already have a job lined up for post-grad, then your grades may be less important.
Last edited by runinthefront on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf

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Re: Bar passing rate/distance factors?

Postby CanadianWolf » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:29 am

The quality of the students also matters. You should be establishing career long contacts from the first day of law school.

P.S. I'll guess that you in either California or Florida. If California, then ABA accreditation becomes a significant factor.

cavalier1138

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Re: Bar passing rate/distance factors?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:32 am

elev8tor wrote:I would like to focus on these two factors (bar passing rate vs. commute distance). It's understandable if TLS posters need more details and choose not to reply. I appreciate your time. Thank you.


I would like to focus on how much time I'll have to ride the school's official pony. But it's a stupid criterion to judge law schools by.

You're asking for advice based on non-information. So either you know full well that both schools aren't a good idea for you, or you just want someone to validate your life choices. So I'd recommend talking to your best friend or a relative. They'll be able to give the same quality of substantive advice based on the lack of information, but they'll also make you feel really good about yourself. It's a win-win.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Bar passing rate/distance factors?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:45 am

OP - look around this site for previous threads on commuting. Lots of people have made similar commutes and while it's a pain in the ass, it's also not a reason to go to a worse school. Since there's usually some kind of correlation between a school's job employment rates and bar passage rate, I'm presuming the closer school is worse and would say go to the further one. (But if the closer school actually does have better job placement rates that would change my answer entirely.)

nick417

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Re: Bar passing rate/distance factors?

Postby nick417 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:35 pm

Commuting sucks. 1L year is a time crunch already and the time you are spending commuting is wasted time. So I think commute time is something that should go into a law school decision.

But bar passage rate should not. As others have said, this is usually based on the quality of student not school specific. There are lots of studies how bar passage rate is correlated with your LSAT score. Now a school with a lower bar passage rate (especially at 60%, that is horrible) indicates they accept a lot of students who score under a 152 on the LSAT. More schools are doing this because they need the $$$ and they prey upon students who are high risks to fail the bar. For example, UPenn has a nearly perfect bar pass rate. Widener law is below 50%. UPenn does not prepare students better than Widener. UPenn students are scoring around a 170 on the LSAT and Widener under 150.

I know it is hard to fathom the bar prior to attending law school, but the bar prep courses do a good job preparing you for the bar. Your goal for picking law schools should be "which law school will put me in the best place to get a job that will allow me to pay off my loans." If that is not your number 1 focus, then you have been ignoring the current legal job market. Not everyone finds work. And even those who do, some are taking jobs that will require 15+ years to pay off loans.

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A. Nony Mouse

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Re: Bar passing rate/distance factors?

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:57 pm

nick417 wrote:Commuting sucks. 1L year is a time crunch already and the time you are spending commuting is wasted time. So I think commute time is something that should go into a law school decision.

only after a lot of other factors, though. All else equal, avoid the commute. But if it's commute to a school with better outcomes or no-commute to a school with worse outcomes, the commute is definitely worth it.

nick417

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Re: Bar passing rate/distance factors?

Postby nick417 » Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:22 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
nick417 wrote:Commuting sucks. 1L year is a time crunch already and the time you are spending commuting is wasted time. So I think commute time is something that should go into a law school decision.

only after a lot of other factors, though. All else equal, avoid the commute. But if it's commute to a school with better outcomes or no-commute to a school with worse outcomes, the commute is definitely worth it.


Of course. I should have been more clear. My point was that time is at a premium 1L year. Time you are commuting is time that could be used elsewhere (studying/outlining/relieving stress) and thus could affect your grades. I know people who missed classes because of their commute (traffic, car accident, weather, etc.) And we know that 1L grades are important. That was where I was going.

But good point.



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