UPenn vs. Temple

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
Ronan

Gold
Posts: 2080
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:58 am

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby Ronan » Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:19 am

Plenty of people informed OP that Temple for free wasn't a bad option if he/she was absolutely committed to criminal law in PA. Nobody is saying that's a bad option. But OP even said he/she isn't certain on what she wants to practice--which is why Penn was considered. So in my opinion, going to Temple here severely limits OP's potential; it will narrow plenty of OP's career opportunities that he/she could have elsewhere. And when you have a 4.0 gpa, you have to potential to go to elite schools for free. Schools that will open doors to a career that OP may want. It's just a shame to see OP limit him/herself like that.

saf18hornet

Bronze
Posts: 314
Joined: Wed Nov 02, 2016 4:21 pm

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby saf18hornet » Sat Feb 18, 2017 10:57 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
saf18hornet wrote:
S.Picquery wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
saf18hornet wrote:Both Nova and Temple are great choices with a full ride. I have several friends who graduated from both and went on to Big Law in either Philly or DC. Ignore the haters. Do what makes sense but please don't pay full sticker at Penn. Best of luck!


I have several friends who have won significant money on slot machines. Ignore the haters and go to Vegas!

Oh, sorry. I thought this was now a competition on who can come up with the worst anecdote-as-data fallacy. My bad.


Not to be a downer, but anecdata should ALWAYS be taken with a grain of salt... or a pound of salt. But, Temple for PA isn't a bad choice. It's not THE BEST CHOICE EVER OMG YOU WON THE LOTTERY, but if you graduate with no debt, it's a very low risk investment.


Yeah, this ^^. No debt at Temple or Nova is low risk, especially if you aren'the set on big law. Plus, if your grades are good enough to get you in to Penn, you are one of the biggest fish in your small pond at these regional schools which have close to 20% big law and huge networks. Temple and Nova are both nationally recognized names, compared to schools like Hastings or WUSTL for example.


...see, you were doing so well until you descended into nonsense again.

The OP cannot rely on being the "biggest fish in a small pond" at Temple and then count on placing in the very small part of the class that gets biglaw. And we won't even get into the part where you totally ignore the OP's LSAT and pretend that undergrad GPA alone is the best indicator of performance (hint: it has the lowest correlation to law school performance). That's now how class ranks work, and you should stop giving advice based on that ridiculous misconception.

Also, stop conflating undergraduate programs/athletics with the law school. No one in the legal world gives a shit that Temple makes the NCAA tournament a lot. There is no universe where Temple is a preferred school for legal hiring compared to WUSTL.

And I should note that I actually advised going to Temple as long as the OP was fine with staying in PA and not getting biglaw. There's not a huge risk here. I'm just against idiotic, "My friend who went to this shit school got a great outcome, so you should go there too," stories. They're not helpful, and they deliberately misrepresent the reality of job expectations from these schools.


Yeah, and I didn't say really any of that, so maybe you should go practice reading comprehension. My advice was and is never pay sticker anywhere, period. And if he's content making 50k a year, temple/nova are great choices coming out debt free. Also, that he has about a 20% upside chance at a clerkship/big law if he ends up desiring that, and there are many examples of it.

cavalier1138

Platinum
Posts: 5083
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby cavalier1138 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:30 pm

saf18hornet wrote:Yeah, and I didn't say really any of that, so maybe you should go practice reading comprehension. My advice was and is never pay sticker anywhere, period. And if he's content making 50k a year, temple/nova are great choices coming out debt free. Also, that he has about a 20% upside chance at a clerkship/big law if he ends up desiring that, and there are many examples of it.


Right. So you'll notice I never said that you were wrong about Temple being a good choice for the OP. I said that your logic behind claiming that Temple actually gives the OP realistic opportunities at biglaw was moronic. I also said that you were wrong in assuming that the OP would be a "big fish in a small pond" at Temple, especially because you chose the weakest indicator of law school performance to predict that.

So lawlz-reading-comp-hurhurhur. Stop it.

SportsFan

Silver
Posts: 727
Joined: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:26 pm

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby SportsFan » Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:32 pm

OP I went to Penn and work in Philly, PM me if you have questions.

User avatar
amta

Platinum
Posts: 9459
Joined: Thu Oct 22, 2015 1:40 pm

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby amta » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:31 pm

not retaking with a 4.0 makes you literally too stupid to go to penn.

Lawschool305

Bronze
Posts: 150
Joined: Tue Sep 27, 2016 9:34 pm

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby Lawschool305 » Tue Feb 21, 2017 6:50 pm

amta wrote:not retaking with a 4.0 makes you literally too stupid to go to penn.

User avatar
OutCold

Bronze
Posts: 482
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 7:57 pm

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby OutCold » Fri Feb 24, 2017 11:01 am

I went to Penn and have spent significant time in the Philly market. I of course agree with those saying you should retake. Barring that, Temple does fairly well within the Philly market, especially when you start looking at the regional firms like Ballard, DM, etc. However, Temple runs away from the pack in terms of Philly gov placement. The DA's office in particular is packed full of them, including its leadership. I'm not saying you will have a great shot at anything, but Temple does much better in Philly than most people on this board realize. You could do a lot worse than a full-ride at Temple if you are one hundred percent on remaining in Philly and the surrounding counties.

User avatar
Toni V

Bronze
Posts: 417
Joined: Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:42 am

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby Toni V » Fri Feb 24, 2017 12:10 pm

Securing a great paying job as a Penn grad is like shooting fish in a barrel. Since your COL is minimal I’d opt for Penn. Temple and Villa grads with honors place well in Philly ― however, those grads without high accolades, it’s hit ‘n miss.

User avatar
URMSenator52

New
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:50 am

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby URMSenator52 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:36 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
saf18hornet wrote:
S.Picquery wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
saf18hornet wrote:Both Nova and Temple are great choices with a full ride. I have several friends who graduated from both and went on to Big Law in either Philly or DC. Ignore the haters. Do what makes sense but please don't pay full sticker at Penn. Best of luck!


I have several friends who have won significant money on slot machines. Ignore the haters and go to Vegas!

Oh, sorry. I thought this was now a competition on who can come up with the worst anecdote-as-data fallacy. My bad.


Not to be a downer, but anecdata should ALWAYS be taken with a grain of salt... or a pound of salt. But, Temple for PA isn't a bad choice. It's not THE BEST CHOICE EVER OMG YOU WON THE LOTTERY, but if you graduate with no debt, it's a very low risk investment.


Yeah, this ^^. No debt at Temple or Nova is low risk, especially if you aren'the set on big law. Plus, if your grades are good enough to get you in to Penn, you are one of the biggest fish in your small pond at these regional schools which have close to 20% big law and huge networks. Temple and Nova are both nationally recognized names, compared to schools like Hastings or WUSTL for example.


...see, you were doing so well until you descended into nonsense again.

The OP cannot rely on being the "biggest fish in a small pond" at Temple and then count on placing in the very small part of the class that gets biglaw. And we won't even get into the part where you totally ignore the OP's LSAT and pretend that undergrad GPA alone is the best indicator of performance (hint: it has the lowest correlation to law school performance). That's now how class ranks work, and you should stop giving advice based on that ridiculous misconception.

Also, stop conflating undergraduate programs/athletics with the law school. No one in the legal world gives a shit that Temple makes the NCAA tournament a lot. There is no universe where Temple is a preferred school for legal hiring compared to WUSTL.

And I should note that I actually advised going to Temple as long as the OP was fine with staying in PA and not getting biglaw. There's not a huge risk here. I'm just against idiotic, "My friend who went to this shit school got a great outcome, so you should go there too," stories. They're not helpful, and they deliberately misrepresent the reality of job expectations from these schools.



Lol your mad and salty. Op Philly big law is very achievable at Temple,Nova,Penn. Do not listen to the people saying Temple or Nova are bad schools...If you want big law and want to work in PA primarily philly area Penn,Temple,Nova. Are your best bets overall just beat the median. Philly Big Law is a good market and not saturated like NYC. If you want PD or Prosecutor in PA then Penn,Temple,Nova. Are still your best bets. You can even make AUSA in PA after a couple years as PD or Prosecutor.. PA needs as many state prosecutors as possible due to heroin epidemic. PS there is currently not hiring freeze for PA State gov unlike the fed..
Last edited by URMSenator52 on Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cavalier1138

Platinum
Posts: 5083
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:39 pm

URMSenator52 wrote:Lol your mad and salty. Op Philly big law is very achievable at Temple,Nova,Penn. Do not listen to the people saying Temple or Nova are bad schools...If you want big law and want to work in PA primarily philly area Penn,Temple,Nova. Are your best bets overall just beat the median.


...what?

Just out of curiosity, what percentage of the class at Nova/Temple go into biglaw? I know the answer, but I'm relatively certain you haven't bothered to look it up.

Also, "just beat the median". Classic.

User avatar
Ronan

Gold
Posts: 2080
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:58 am

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby Ronan » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:48 pm

URMSenator52 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
saf18hornet wrote:
S.Picquery wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
saf18hornet wrote:Both Nova and Temple are great choices with a full ride. I have several friends who graduated from both and went on to Big Law in either Philly or DC. Ignore the haters. Do what makes sense but please don't pay full sticker at Penn. Best of luck!


I have several friends who have won significant money on slot machines. Ignore the haters and go to Vegas!

Oh, sorry. I thought this was now a competition on who can come up with the worst anecdote-as-data fallacy. My bad.


Not to be a downer, but anecdata should ALWAYS be taken with a grain of salt... or a pound of salt. But, Temple for PA isn't a bad choice. It's not THE BEST CHOICE EVER OMG YOU WON THE LOTTERY, but if you graduate with no debt, it's a very low risk investment.


Yeah, this ^^. No debt at Temple or Nova is low risk, especially if you aren'the set on big law. Plus, if your grades are good enough to get you in to Penn, you are one of the biggest fish in your small pond at these regional schools which have close to 20% big law and huge networks. Temple and Nova are both nationally recognized names, compared to schools like Hastings or WUSTL for example.


...see, you were doing so well until you descended into nonsense again.

The OP cannot rely on being the "biggest fish in a small pond" at Temple and then count on placing in the very small part of the class that gets biglaw. And we won't even get into the part where you totally ignore the OP's LSAT and pretend that undergrad GPA alone is the best indicator of performance (hint: it has the lowest correlation to law school performance). That's now how class ranks work, and you should stop giving advice based on that ridiculous misconception.

Also, stop conflating undergraduate programs/athletics with the law school. No one in the legal world gives a shit that Temple makes the NCAA tournament a lot. There is no universe where Temple is a preferred school for legal hiring compared to WUSTL.

And I should note that I actually advised going to Temple as long as the OP was fine with staying in PA and not getting biglaw. There's not a huge risk here. I'm just against idiotic, "My friend who went to this shit school got a great outcome, so you should go there too," stories. They're not helpful, and they deliberately misrepresent the reality of job expectations from these schools.



Lol your mad and salty. Op Philly big law is very achievable at Temple,Nova,Penn. Do not listen to the people saying Temple or Nova are bad schools...If you want big law and want to work in PA primarily philly area Penn,Temple,Nova. Are your best bets overall just beat the median. Philly Big Law is a good market and not saturated like NYC. If you want PD or Prosecutor in PA then Penn,Temple,Nova. Are still your best bets. You can even make AUSA in PA after a couple years as PD or Prosecutor.. PA needs as many state prosecutors as possible due to heroin epidemic. PS there is currently not hiring freeze for PA State gov unlike the fed..


The bolded are just simply incorrect statements. Philly big law is a tough market to break into, and while Temple/Nova are the second best schools in town, they aren't placing a high amount of graduates in Philly big law. It's nearly impossible to make AUSA after a "couple years as a PD or prosecutor." That's just a laughable statement. And DA offices aren't suddenly increasing their hiring because of the heroin epidemic.

I don't think this poster is a practicing attorney.

User avatar
URMSenator52

New
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:50 am

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby URMSenator52 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 12:58 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
URMSenator52 wrote:Lol your mad and salty. Op Philly big law is very achievable at Temple,Nova,Penn. Do not listen to the people saying Temple or Nova are bad schools...If you want big law and want to work in PA primarily philly area Penn,Temple,Nova. Are your best bets overall just beat the median.


...what?

Just out of curiosity, what percentage of the class at Nova/Temple go into biglaw? I know the answer, but I'm relatively certain you haven't bothered to look it up.

Also, "just beat the median". Classic.


Out of curiosity have you ever even been to PA or know anything about PA big law? I doubt it considering your posts flaws, and strawman arguments. Most of Philly is filled with Nova and Temple alums from State Gov to Big Law like Morgan Lewis. Temple,Nova, and Penn are widely appreciated in PA... According to LST 2015 grad class 13% went for big law and 22% PI/Gov at Nova. According to LST 2015 Temple grad class 11.9% went big law and 17% PI/Gov. Obviously Penn is your best bet, but Temple and Nova are also viable options for Philly big law. If you beat the median which obviously any person on this site can assume means top 10-15%.

cavalier1138

Platinum
Posts: 5083
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:02 pm

URMSenator52 wrote:Out of curiosity have you ever even been to PA or know anything about PA big law? I doubt it considering your posts flaws, and strawman arguments. Most of Philly is filled with Nova and Temple alums from State Gov to Big Law like Morgan Lewis. Temple,Nova, and Penn are widely appreciated in PA... According to LST 2015 grad class 13% went for big law and 22% PI/Gov at Nova. According to LST 2015 Temple grad class 11.9% went big law and 17% PI/Gov. Obviously Penn is your best bet, but Temple and Nova are also viable options for Philly big law. If you beat the median which obviously any person on this site can assume means top 10-15%.


So not only are you arguing that a 12-13% chance at biglaw makes Nova and Temple good options for that route, you're also saying that "beat the median" means top 10-15%?

Yes, I'm clearly the one having problems making a clear argument (hint: just because you saw the word "strawman" somewhere on the internet doesn't mean it's a catch-all rebuttal to points you don't like).

User avatar
URMSenator52

New
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:50 am

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby URMSenator52 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:14 pm

Ronan wrote:
URMSenator52 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
saf18hornet wrote:
S.Picquery wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
saf18hornet wrote:Both Nova and Temple are great choices with a full ride. I have several friends who graduated from both and went on to Big Law in either Philly or DC. Ignore the haters. Do what makes sense but please don't pay full sticker at Penn. Best of luck!


I have several friends who have won significant money on slot machines. Ignore the haters and go to Vegas!

Oh, sorry. I thought this was now a competition on who can come up with the worst anecdote-as-data fallacy. My bad.


Not to be a downer, but anecdata should ALWAYS be taken with a grain of salt... or a pound of salt. But, Temple for PA isn't a bad choice. It's not THE BEST CHOICE EVER OMG YOU WON THE LOTTERY, but if you graduate with no debt, it's a very low risk investment.


Yeah, this ^^. No debt at Temple or Nova is low risk, especially if you aren'the set on big law. Plus, if your grades are good enough to get you in to Penn, you are one of the biggest fish in your small pond at these regional schools which have close to 20% big law and huge networks. Temple and Nova are both nationally recognized names, compared to schools like Hastings or WUSTL for example.


...see, you were doing so well until you descended into nonsense again.

The OP cannot rely on being the "biggest fish in a small pond" at Temple and then count on placing in the very small part of the class that gets biglaw. And we won't even get into the part where you totally ignore the OP's LSAT and pretend that undergrad GPA alone is the best indicator of performance (hint: it has the lowest correlation to law school performance). That's now how class ranks work, and you should stop giving advice based on that ridiculous misconception.

Also, stop conflating undergraduate programs/athletics with the law school. No one in the legal world gives a shit that Temple makes the NCAA tournament a lot. There is no universe where Temple is a preferred school for legal hiring compared to WUSTL.

And I should note that I actually advised going to Temple as long as the OP was fine with staying in PA and not getting biglaw. There's not a huge risk here. I'm just against idiotic, "My friend who went to this shit school got a great outcome, so you should go there too," stories. They're not helpful, and they deliberately misrepresent the reality of job expectations from these schools.



Lol your mad and salty. Op Philly big law is very achievable at Temple,Nova,Penn. Do not listen to the people saying Temple or Nova are bad schools...If you want big law and want to work in PA primarily philly area Penn,Temple,Nova. Are your best bets overall just beat the median. Philly Big Law is a good market and not saturated like NYC. If you want PD or Prosecutor in PA then Penn,Temple,Nova. Are still your best bets. You can even make AUSA in PA after a couple years as PD or Prosecutor.. PA needs as many state prosecutors as possible due to heroin epidemic. PS there is currently not hiring freeze for PA State gov unlike the fed..


The bolded are just simply incorrect statements. Philly big law is a tough market to break into, and while Temple/Nova are the second best schools in town, they aren't placing a high amount of graduates in Philly big law. It's nearly impossible to make AUSA after a "couple years as a PD or prosecutor." That's just a laughable statement. And DA offices aren't suddenly increasing their hiring because of the heroin epidemic.

I don't think this poster is a practicing attorney.


How can you say deadly heroin epidemic with, more deaths than past 20 years does not equal more state prosecutor hiring or PD? Did you hear Jeff sessions speech to the attorney generals across the U.S.? Drug Enforcement and immigration are #1. And being a lateral AUSA at like Scranton PA is very possible. I

User avatar
floatie

Silver
Posts: 591
Joined: Fri Jul 29, 2016 3:39 pm

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby floatie » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:19 pm

URMSenator52 wrote:Out of curiosity have you ever even been to PA or know anything about PA big law? I doubt it considering your posts flaws, and strawman arguments. Most of Philly is filled with Nova and Temple alums from State Gov to Big Law like Morgan Lewis. Temple,Nova, and Penn are widely appreciated in PA... According to LST 2015 grad class 13% went for big law and 22% PI/Gov at Nova. According to LST 2015 Temple grad class 11.9% went big law and 17% PI/Gov. Obviously Penn is your best bet, but Temple and Nova are also viable options for Philly big law. If you beat the median which obviously any person on this site can assume means top 10-15%.


Okay, a few issues here:
1) No one said that biglaw out of those schools is impossible, but you shouldn't bank on it. Your own statistics demonstrate that - 12-13% getting big law means that 87-88% aren't getting biglaw. Those numbers mean you should not count on biglaw coming out of those schools, which brings me to your next mistake...
2) You can't just count on "beating the median" because you have no way to control how the curve plays out, or how others around you do.Professors have some leeway about how the curve shakes out - some of them are more lenient, others aren't. Some will give out the most number of A's and A-'s possible, others won't give out any. Plus, you're not going to be the only special little snowflake that studies - EVERYONE around you is going to be busting their asses for finals, and will be able to spot the issues on an exam. There are going to be some people in your class who are flat out better at this than you are, and there won't be anything you can do about it.
3) Big law firms have pretty steep GPA or class rank cutoffs for lower tier schools (top 5-10% or so, which matches up with the biglaw stats you brought up), and you simply cannot assume that you'll be able to make it into that group by sheer hard work alone. That's just not how law schools works. That also means that beating the median isn't good enough for these schools - you need to LITERALLY be top of your class. If you go through some of the employment threads on here that reference people from TT/TTTs who got SAs for biglaw, these are people who were top 10 in their class (not 10%, literally ranked 1-10 in a class of 200 or so).

I'd also like you to think about this - of those firms filled with Nova and Temple grads, how many of them are recent graduates? Law firm hiring has changed drastically in the last 5 or so years, and people who graduated 10+ years ago didn't face the same types of challenges that current classes are.

User avatar
URMSenator52

New
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:50 am

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby URMSenator52 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:26 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
URMSenator52 wrote:Out of curiosity have you ever even been to PA or know anything about PA big law? I doubt it considering your posts flaws, and strawman arguments. Most of Philly is filled with Nova and Temple alums from State Gov to Big Law like Morgan Lewis. Temple,Nova, and Penn are widely appreciated in PA... According to LST 2015 grad class 13% went for big law and 22% PI/Gov at Nova. According to LST 2015 Temple grad class 11.9% went big law and 17% PI/Gov. Obviously Penn is your best bet, but Temple and Nova are also viable options for Philly big law. If you beat the median which obviously any person on this site can assume means top 10-15%.


So not only are you arguing that a 12-13% chance at biglaw makes Nova and Temple good options for that route, you're also saying that "beat the median" means top 10-15%?

Yes, I'm clearly the one having problems making a clear argument (hint: just because you saw the word "strawman" somewhere on the internet doesn't mean it's a catch-all rebuttal to points you don't like).


I never said they were the best options,but for Philly big law yes they are very good options. This is compared to other schools outside of PA. Where in the Philly market it's appreciated, to go to school where guess what Philly! Beat the median can mean anything from top 5%-49% So one can assume, that means top 10-15% on this site for Big Law. Which is also means beating the median. Straw man is the correct rebuttal for this debate. Because you are literally grasping for straws. It's is universal knowledge on this fourm Nova and Temple,are tied for the 2nd best feeders into Philly market. Necessary and sufficient assumptions were definitely a problem for you.

cavalier1138

Platinum
Posts: 5083
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:30 pm

URMSenator52 wrote:I never said they were the best options,but for Philly big law yes they are very good options. This is compared to other schools outside of PA. Where in the Philly market it's appreciated, to go to school where guess what Philly! Beat the median can mean anything from top 5%-49% So one can assume, that means top 10-15% on this site for Big Law. Which is also means beating the median. Straw man is the correct rebuttal for this debate. Because you are literally grasping for straws. It's is universal knowledge on this fourm Nova and Temple,are tied for the 2nd best feeders into Philly market. Necessary and sufficient assumptions were definitely a problem for you.


Quoting every glorious word of this for posterity.

User avatar
Ronan

Gold
Posts: 2080
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:58 am

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby Ronan » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:32 pm

Yeah just because it's a new epidemic and it's the focus of attention doesn't mean DA offices are going to have the ability to hire more prosecutors. That's not how it works.

And I'm sure you know somebody who became an AUSA in Scranton, but it's not statistically likely that any new graduate from Temple or Nova is going to be able to "lateral" to an AUSA after a couple years of being an ADA. You need serious trial work and experience. Two years in the Philly DA's office isn't going to give you the stuff you need to be competitive for an AUSA job.

User avatar
Ronan

Gold
Posts: 2080
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:58 am

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby Ronan » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:35 pm

URMSenator52 wrote:
How can you say deadly heroin epidemic with, more deaths than past 20 years does not equal more state prosecutor hiring or PD? Did you hear Jeff sessions speech to the attorney generals across the U.S.? Drug Enforcement and immigration are #1. And being a lateral AUSA at like Scranton PA is very possible. I


Also, drug enforcement and immigration are mainly issues that federal prosecutors deal with. So I don't think county prosecutors are going to be increasing their hiring practices because of it.

lol

User avatar
URMSenator52

New
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:50 am

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby URMSenator52 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:37 pm

floatie wrote:
URMSenator52 wrote:Out of curiosity have you ever even been to PA or know anything about PA big law? I doubt it considering your posts flaws, and strawman arguments. Most of Philly is filled with Nova and Temple alums from State Gov to Big Law like Morgan Lewis. Temple,Nova, and Penn are widely appreciated in PA... According to LST 2015 grad class 13% went for big law and 22% PI/Gov at Nova. According to LST 2015 Temple grad class 11.9% went big law and 17% PI/Gov. Obviously Penn is your best bet, but Temple and Nova are also viable options for Philly big law. If you beat the median which obviously any person on this site can assume means top 10-15%.


Okay, a few issues here:
1) No one said that biglaw out of those schools is impossible, but you shouldn't bank on it. Your own statistics demonstrate that - 12-13% getting big law means that 87-88% aren't getting biglaw. Those numbers mean you should not count on biglaw coming out of those schools, which brings me to your next mistake...
2) You can't just count on "beating the median" because you have no way to control how the curve plays out, or how others around you do.Professors have some leeway about how the curve shakes out - some of them are more lenient, others aren't. Some will give out the most number of A's and A-'s possible, others won't give out any. Plus, you're not going to be the only special little snowflake that studies - EVERYONE around you is going to be busting their asses for finals, and will be able to spot the issues on an exam. There are going to be some people in your class who are flat out better at this than you are, and there won't be anything you can do about it.
3) Big law firms have pretty steep GPA or class rank cutoffs for lower tier schools (top 5-10% or so, which matches up with the biglaw stats you brought up), and you simply cannot assume that you'll be able to make it into that group by sheer hard work alone. That's just not how law schools works. That also means that beating the median isn't good enough for these schools - you need to LITERALLY be top of your class. If you go through some of the employment threads on here that reference people from TT/TTTs who got SAs for biglaw, these are people who were top 10 in their class (not 10%, literally ranked 1-10 in a class of 200 or so).

I'd also like you to think about this - of those firms filled with Nova and Temple grads, how many of them are recent graduates? Law firm hiring has changed drastically in the last 5 or so years, and people who graduated 10+ years ago didn't face the same types of challenges that current classes are.


Fair points,but with big companies coming into play within PA. More then there was 10 years ago, Philly BL market has grown since then. With also the amount of LS students declining since 10 years ago. One can assume that attaining Philly BL would be easier due to causation implying coorelation.

User avatar
guynourmin

Gold
Posts: 3434
Joined: Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:42 pm

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby guynourmin » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:41 pm

URMSenator52 wrote:One can assume that attaining Philly BL would be easier due to causation implying coorelation.


Now you know this guys not real.

User avatar
URMSenator52

New
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:50 am

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby URMSenator52 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:45 pm

Ronan wrote:
URMSenator52 wrote:
How can you say deadly heroin epidemic with, more deaths than past 20 years does not equal more state prosecutor hiring or PD? Did you hear Jeff sessions speech to the attorney generals across the U.S.? Drug Enforcement and immigration are #1. And being a lateral AUSA at like Scranton PA is very possible. I


Also, drug enforcement and immigration are mainly issues that federal prosecutors deal with. So I don't think county prosecutors are going to be increasing their hiring practices because of it.

lol


Lol no,if there is a federal hiring freeze. While Sessions wants more drug enforcement and immigration control. While also Republicans want to give alot of power to the states. Then one can assume this means hiring more state prosecutors/PD's. Since less people will be working in Fed lol. But the Heroin use is an Epidemic in PA. Governor Wolf,has even called for more police/prosecutors hiring's etc.. So major political and logical flaw in your argument.

grades??

Silver
Posts: 985
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:55 pm

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby grades?? » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:50 pm

URMSenator52 wrote:
Ronan wrote:
URMSenator52 wrote:
How can you say deadly heroin epidemic with, more deaths than past 20 years does not equal more state prosecutor hiring or PD? Did you hear Jeff sessions speech to the attorney generals across the U.S.? Drug Enforcement and immigration are #1. And being a lateral AUSA at like Scranton PA is very possible. I


Also, drug enforcement and immigration are mainly issues that federal prosecutors deal with. So I don't think county prosecutors are going to be increasing their hiring practices because of it.

lol


Lol no,if there is a federal hiring freeze. While Sessions wants more drug enforcement and immigration control. While also Republicans want to give alot of power to the states. Then one can assume this means hiring more state prosecutors/PD's. Since less people will be working in Fed lol. But the Heroin use is an Epidemic in PA. Governor Wolf,has even called for more police/prosecutors hiring's etc.. So major political and logical flaw in your argument.


You understand the criminal sections of DOJ are not subject to the hiring freeze? They have fallen into the catch all language about public safety. So no, there will not be a pickup in local PD hiring because DOJ will still be able to hire criminal prosecutors. You need to stop spewing absolute nonsense.

User avatar
Ronan

Gold
Posts: 2080
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 11:58 am

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby Ronan » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:55 pm

URMSenator52 wrote:
Ronan wrote:
URMSenator52 wrote:
How can you say deadly heroin epidemic with, more deaths than past 20 years does not equal more state prosecutor hiring or PD? Did you hear Jeff sessions speech to the attorney generals across the U.S.? Drug Enforcement and immigration are #1. And being a lateral AUSA at like Scranton PA is very possible. I


Also, drug enforcement and immigration are mainly issues that federal prosecutors deal with. So I don't think county prosecutors are going to be increasing their hiring practices because of it.

lol


Lol no,if there is a federal hiring freeze. While Sessions wants more drug enforcement and immigration control. While also Republicans want to give alot of power to the states. Then one can assume this means hiring more state prosecutors/PD's. Since less people will be working in Fed lol. But the Heroin use is an Epidemic in PA. Governor Wolf,has even called for more police/prosecutors hiring's etc.. So major political and logical flaw in your argument.


No, there isn't any flaw in my argument. The county prosecutors aren't going to assume the role of dealing with immigration and federal drug issues because of a hiring freeze at the federal level and because the Republicans value state sovereignty. There's also not going to be an increase of hiring in DA offices because of the federal hiring freeze. You're not serious when you suggest that, are you?

Governor Wolf hasn't asked for more county prosecutors. The AG's office asked for more lawyers. Meaning, the Attorney General will probably hire a few more attorneys. And the AG's office isn't going to hire a new graduate as one of those 2 or 3 attorneys that they convince the legislature to fork money over for.

User avatar
URMSenator52

New
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:50 am

Re: UPenn vs. Temple

Postby URMSenator52 » Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:58 pm

grades?? wrote:
URMSenator52 wrote:
Ronan wrote:
URMSenator52 wrote:
How can you say deadly heroin epidemic with, more deaths than past 20 years does not equal more state prosecutor hiring or PD? Did you hear Jeff sessions speech to the attorney generals across the U.S.? Drug Enforcement and immigration are #1. And being a lateral AUSA at like Scranton PA is very possible. I


Also, drug enforcement and immigration are mainly issues that federal prosecutors deal with. So I don't think county prosecutors are going to be increasing their hiring practices because of it.

lol


Lol no,if there is a federal hiring freeze. While Sessions wants more drug enforcement and immigration control. While also Republicans want to give alot of power to the states. Then one can assume this means hiring more state prosecutors/PD's. Since less people will be working in Fed lol. But the Heroin use is an Epidemic in PA. Governor Wolf,has even called for more police/prosecutors hiring's etc.. So major political and logical flaw in your argument.


You understand the criminal sections of DOJ are not subject to the hiring freeze? They have fallen into the catch all language about public safety. So no, there will not be a pickup in local PD hiring because DOJ will still be able to hire criminal prosecutors. You need to stop spewing absolute nonsense.


If I recall Trump's executive order on the hiring freeze said all federal agencies except military. I didn't know DOJ qualified as the military. So maybe you should stop spewing garbage. Show evidence that "criminal sections of DOJ are not subject to the hiring freeze? They have fallen into the catch all language about public safety. So no, there will not be a pickup in local PD hiring because DOJ will still be able to hire criminal prosecutors.." You also know this will not be at the same rate as during pre Trump administration. Broad Generalization...



Return to “Choosing a Law School?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot], Google Adsense [Bot] and 25 guests