WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

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Pinkpanda24

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WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby Pinkpanda24 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:38 pm

Edit:
Hoping to eventually practice family law in Chicago.
Deciding between:
ND $10K/yr (but sent in negotiation)
WUSTL $35K/yr
UIUC full tuition scholarship

Also received these offers-not really considering because of the above three, but let me know if I actually should be.
W&L 37.5K/yr
Loyola Chicago 37K/yr
UCI $20K/yr
George Mason full tuition

Was considering GWU and BU sticker when I originally posted, but I have been convinced otherwise.
Last edited by Pinkpanda24 on Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:36 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby UVA2B » Sat Jan 28, 2017 7:57 pm

Since cost is equal to you, go to the ASWs and pick your favorite. They all have opportunities for the cities/jobs you want.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby acr » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:07 pm

You're wasting a serious opportunity if law school will be paid for and you settle for one of these schools. The right answer, and I know you don't want to hear it, is to retake the LSAT. Reapply next cycle and get into a T14. If you must go this year, and don't have strong preferences as to where/what you want to practice beyond a major city and family law, then there aren't enough meaningful differences between these schools to give a complete answer. They are all semi-regional schools with decent placement for the area. WUSTL probably has the best outright employment numbers, ND has the best alumni network and national portability, BU will be best for Boston/NE, and GW will be best for DC. Seriously though, retake.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby dm1683 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:22 pm

Pinkpanda24 wrote:Hi everyone!

I'd love to hear any thoughts that you all have about WUSTL, Notre Dame, BU, and GWU. I've been accepted to WUSTL, BU, and GWU already and would also consider ND if my application there gets accepted. Assume that money is not an issue-I am very, very grateful to have law school taken care of. As of now, I hope to practice family law in Chicago, Boston, or DC. As long as I'm in or near a major city, I'd be happy. If anyone has any insights on those four schools, I'd be happy to hear them. Thank you in advance!


I would vote for BU because it does better in Boston than ND does in Chicago and GW does in DC. Most Harvard grads leave MA so you're basically just competing with BC, a peer school, for Boston jobs. With ND you're tied with Illinois for the 3rd/4th spot behind UChicago and NU, and with GW you're behind Georgetown (with its massive class size).


Is St. Louis a "major city" by your standards? It isn't by mine, but if you think differently then WUSTL would be the best option.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby Pinkpanda24 » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:28 pm

dm1683 wrote:
Pinkpanda24 wrote:Hi everyone!

I'd love to hear any thoughts that you all have about WUSTL, Notre Dame, BU, and GWU. I've been accepted to WUSTL, BU, and GWU already and would also consider ND if my application there gets accepted. Assume that money is not an issue-I am very, very grateful to have law school taken care of. As of now, I hope to practice family law in Chicago, Boston, or DC. As long as I'm in or near a major city, I'd be happy. If anyone has any insights on those four schools, I'd be happy to hear them. Thank you in advance!


I would vote for BU because it does better in Boston than ND does in Chicago and GW does in DC. Most Harvard grads leave MA so you're basically just competing with BC, a peer school, for Boston jobs. With ND you're tied with Illinois for the 3rd/4th spot behind UChicago and NU, and with GW you're behind Georgetown (with its massive class size).


Is St. Louis a "major city" by your standards? It isn't by mine, but if you think differently then WUSTL would be the best option.

Thanks for your insight! That's actually a really good point that I didn't think of. :) I wouldn't consider St. Louis a major city...I live here and would prefer to get out, but would stay if WUSTL was the best choice.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby UVA2B » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:38 pm

Because of your modest goals, placement in a given city matters much less. Sure employment prospects are most important, but you're talking about finding a job as a small firm attorney. None of these schools place differently in that job market. Go for whichever one you like most, because the final outcome from each is likely to be the same, just in a different city.

If you think your goals will change, however, you will need to seriously reevaluate these prospects, cause they're somewhat suspect.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby UVA2B » Sat Jan 28, 2017 9:55 pm

Pinkpanda24 wrote:
dm1683 wrote:
Pinkpanda24 wrote:Hi everyone!

I'd love to hear any thoughts that you all have about WUSTL, Notre Dame, BU, and GWU. I've been accepted to WUSTL, BU, and GWU already and would also consider ND if my application there gets accepted. Assume that money is not an issue-I am very, very grateful to have law school taken care of. As of now, I hope to practice family law in Chicago, Boston, or DC. As long as I'm in or near a major city, I'd be happy. If anyone has any insights on those four schools, I'd be happy to hear them. Thank you in advance!


I would vote for BU because it does better in Boston than ND does in Chicago and GW does in DC. Most Harvard grads leave MA so you're basically just competing with BC, a peer school, for Boston jobs. With ND you're tied with Illinois for the 3rd/4th spot behind UChicago and NU, and with GW you're behind Georgetown (with its massive class size).


Is St. Louis a "major city" by your standards? It isn't by mine, but if you think differently then WUSTL would be the best option.

Thanks for your insight! That's actually a really good point that I didn't think of. :) I wouldn't consider St. Louis a major city...I live here and would prefer to get out, but would stay if WUSTL was the best choice.


Also, WUSTL wouldn't consider St. Louis as the major market it feeds. Plenty of WUSTL grads stay in St. Louis, sure, but they have equal standing to ND in Chicago (and I'd imagine Boston and DC when we're talking family law).

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby BigZuck » Sun Jan 29, 2017 1:56 am

I think you need to acquire much more career and geographic focus before attending law school can come close to being a good decision.

It's possible you have career focus, but I'm skeptical given how vague your post was. You definitely don't have geographic focus, which can arguably be even more important than career focus when it comes to actually finding a job. You might not care where you live but employers will care that you care where you live. So find a way to care.

Once you have career and geographic focus then come back and we can start talking law school.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby Npret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:05 am

BigZuck wrote:I think you need to acquire much more career and geographic focus before attending law school can come close to being a good decision.

It's possible you have career focus, but I'm skeptical given how vague your post was. You definitely don't have geographic focus, which can arguably be even more important than career focus when it comes to actually finding a job. You might not care where you live but employers will care that you care where you live. So find a way to care.

Once you have career and geographic focus then come back and we can start talking law school.

Family law is different in every state. You need to go to school in the state you want to work. You need to work in clinics and make connections to get a job.
Note that family law seems to be even more over saturated than other fields.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby Pinkpanda24 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:02 am

Npret wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I think you need to acquire much more career and geographic focus before attending law school can come close to being a good decision.

It's possible you have career focus, but I'm skeptical given how vague your post was. You definitely don't have geographic focus, which can arguably be even more important than career focus when it comes to actually finding a job. You might not care where you live but employers will care that you care where you live. So find a way to care.

Once you have career and geographic focus then come back and we can start talking law school.

Family law is different in every state. You need to go to school in the state you want to work. You need to work in clinics and make connections to get a job.
Note that family law seems to be even more over saturated than other fields.

Can you please elaborate on this? Not one of the career advisors or family attorneys I have spoken to about family law has said that it is essential for me to go to school in the same state that I practice in. I believe you but would love to know a bit more about your reasoning and sources. Thank you. My SO does not know where his new job is going to be after next year, which is why I was hoping for even a bit of geographic flexibility.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby UVA2B » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:15 am

Pinkpanda24 wrote:
Npret wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I think you need to acquire much more career and geographic focus before attending law school can come close to being a good decision.

It's possible you have career focus, but I'm skeptical given how vague your post was. You definitely don't have geographic focus, which can arguably be even more important than career focus when it comes to actually finding a job. You might not care where you live but employers will care that you care where you live. So find a way to care.

Once you have career and geographic focus then come back and we can start talking law school.

Family law is different in every state. You need to go to school in the state you want to work. You need to work in clinics and make connections to get a job.
Note that family law seems to be even more over saturated than other fields.

Can you please elaborate on this? Not one of the career advisors or family attorneys I have spoken to about family law has said that it is essential for me to go to school in the same state that I practice in. I believe you but would love to know a bit more about your reasoning and sources. Thank you. My SO does not know where his new job is going to be after next year, which is why I was hoping for even a bit of geographic flexibility.


Obviously not the person quoted, but the reasoning behind this is because family law is uniquely local, in that the firms that do this will be local firms that exclusively do family law (possibly branching out into personal injury as well). They don't typically hire people they don't know, and they hire very few associates in a given year. So the reason behind going to school in the region is simultaneously showing your connection with the city/state and being able to network/intern for these firms and develop a relationship with them. It's the best way to put yourself in the position where they'd consider offering you a job after graduation. It's no guarantee, as many in family law practice end up starting their own firm to do it, but no matter what you're talking about small firm work that relies much more heavily on personal networking than school credentials.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby Npret » Sun Jan 29, 2017 10:24 am

Family law practice depends on state law. Family law practice and family court in New York is vastly different than in Ohio, for example.

You will obviously need to be licensed in that state as well and it is time consuming and expensive to get a license if you are funding it yourself- which you will be if you are looking to practice with a small firm.

You will also need to get experience and make connections to get a job in a highly oversaturated market. The best way to do this is during school.

You should get advice from family law practitioners not law admissions advisers. I doubt they know much about job seeking or family law practice. If you have been getting advice from family law practitioners, ask them what is the best way to get a job out of school. I don't think moving to another state cold with no local connections or experience is the way to go.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:01 am

Npret wrote:You should get advice from family law practitioners not law admissions advisers.


This is good advice for anything related to law school and practicing law.

OP, do a forum search for "law school advisors" or "pre-law advisors". I have yet to hear about one that knew what the hell they were talking about.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby BigZuck » Sun Jan 29, 2017 12:12 pm


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tncats

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby tncats » Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:24 pm

Just throwing in that my husband (family law attorney) and his partners have advised me to go to an in-state school if I want to practice family law. They've told me that it seems to make a big difference in how they were prepared when they started and how their new attorney hires have been prepared to practice.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby favabeansoup » Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:44 pm

I'm just curious why BC is excluded from this list if you are considering Boston? I had friends go to BC and always heard BC placed better in Boston than BU did and BU graduates weren't viewed as favorably as BCs were.


http://www.bc.edu/content/dam/bc1/schoo ... _bclaw.pdf
https://www.bu.edu/law/files/2016/05/Em ... 5.9.16.pdf

BC has a better full time/bar passage required rate. 77.32% vs 75.48% (admittedly small difference)
BC has a better biglaw/fed clerk rate: 41.29% vs. 34.61%
BC placed more graduates in Massachusetts both in number and as a percentage of the class: 127 in MA/247 total, 51.4% vs. 105 in MA/208 total, 50.4%
BU had more law school funded positions (i.e. means school paid for their jobs, not a good thing): 5 at BC vs. 17 at BU

COA at both is roughly equal at $70,378 for BC and $70,112 at BU.

Just looking at the numbers, BC objectively seems to be the better Boston oriented school for me. I know USNWR ranks it higher, but USNWR is objectively also bs.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby guynourmin » Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:17 pm

favabeansoup wrote:I'm just curious why BC is excluded from this list if you are considering Boston?

Just looking at the numbers, BC objectively seems to be the better Boston oriented school for me. I know USNWR ranks it higher, but USNWR is objectively also bs.


As a 0L with no real interest in Boston who has done very little "research" into either program beyond a currsory glance at their LST profiles, I agree that BC seems way better than BU. It also has more lay-prestige and looks like a nicer campus.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby Informative » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:27 pm

dm1683 wrote:
Pinkpanda24 wrote:Hi everyone!

I'd love to hear any thoughts that you all have about WUSTL, Notre Dame, BU, and GWU. I've been accepted to WUSTL, BU, and GWU already and would also consider ND if my application there gets accepted. Assume that money is not an issue-I am very, very grateful to have law school taken care of. As of now, I hope to practice family law in Chicago, Boston, or DC. As long as I'm in or near a major city, I'd be happy. If anyone has any insights on those four schools, I'd be happy to hear them. Thank you in advance!


I would vote for BU because it does better in Boston than ND does in Chicago and GW does in DC. Most Harvard grads leave MA so you're basically just competing with BC, a peer school, for Boston jobs. With ND you're tied with Illinois for the 3rd/4th spot behind UChicago and NU, and with GW you're behind Georgetown (with its massive class size).


Is St. Louis a "major city" by your standards? It isn't by mine, but if you think differently then WUSTL would be the best option.



But by that logic, OP should pick BC because it does better in BC than any of the schools mentioned do in their respective markets.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby Pinkpanda24 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:31 pm

Bumping this, received an unexpected full ride to Illinois and am wondering if I should choose that if my target market is chicago.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby UVA2B » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:42 pm

Pinkpanda24 wrote:Bumping this, received an unexpected full ride to Illinois and am wondering if I should choose that if my target market is chicago.


Yes, that's your best bet.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby Rigo » Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:48 pm

UIUC

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby acr » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:49 pm

Go to UIUC unless WUSTL matches with full ride. They might be willing to up your scholarship from $115K to full if you notify them of Illinois' offer. WUSTL is the better school and you will (presumably) enjoy living in St. Louis more than Champaign, which would be three years in the middle of nowhere.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby trebekismyhero » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:17 pm

UIUC is a no brainer

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby anonpsanon » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:54 pm

OP - I also want to practice family law in Chicago and had a similar post about this in another thread. UIUC seems like the obvious choice (I too was offered a full ride), but I'm struggling with the prospect of living so far from possible networking/connections all the way down in UC. If you ever want to chat, feel free to PM.

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Re: WUSTL, ND, BU, or GWU?

Postby anonpsanon » Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:57 pm

Also - question to all. I know that specializations/class offerings aren't supposed to matter so much...BUT...

Doesn't UIUC have the reputation for feeding into biglaw? Specifically corporate biglaw? The clinical/experiential training offered doesn't seem as robust as the offerings at other schools (Wisc, Loyola, etc.). For someone hoping to practice family law (or, if that doesn't work out, employment law, immigration law, public interest... not at all interested in biglaw)... is UIUC still the best option?



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