Howard Law vs. Emory

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WannabeLawyer95

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Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby WannabeLawyer95 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:57 am

Received a scholarship to attend Emory (30k a year. So I'd still be paying 20k).
Pros:
Better name
More ideal location
Better outcomes as far as passing the bar, etc.)

Cons:
Expensive
Not many ties in that area

Vs.

Waiting on a decision from Howard. Expecting a better scholarship tbh.

Pros:
I get to stay in my comfort zone (I'm AA)
I know a whole lot of people in the area
Probably less expensive than Emory

Cons:
Higher cost of living
May not grow as much as a person (whatever that means)

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brinicolec

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby brinicolec » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:45 am

This is hard to answer without knowing what you hope to do with your degree.

Can almost guarantee most people are going to say Emory just based on rankings/employment/etc. though.

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby WannabeLawyer95 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:24 am

brinicolec wrote:This is hard to answer without knowing what you hope to do with your degree.

Can almost guarantee most people are going to say Emory just based on rankings/employment/etc. though.


I'm not sure what I want to do. I want to have the best career possible. I'm open to exploring different paths but I know that corporate law is pretty much a no-go for me.
I want to be in the best position to make money and be successful but also minimize debt along the way.

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brinicolec

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby brinicolec » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:39 am

What are your stats relative to Emory's (25/50/75 GPA and LSAT)? Would you be willing to wait until next cycle and retake for a higher LSAT score?

WannabeLawyer95

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby WannabeLawyer95 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:46 am

brinicolec wrote:What are your stats relative to Emory's (25/50/75 GPA and LSAT)? Would you be willing to wait until next cycle and retake for a higher LSAT score?

3.85 GPA, 155 lsat. Most likely won't retake.

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brinicolec

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby brinicolec » Mon Jan 23, 2017 5:14 am

That's unfortunate that you don't want to retake because with that GPA, if you could get a higher LSAT score, you'd be in at some REALLY great schools, especially since you're URM.

With that LSAT score, the reality is you won't be able to go to a REALLY good school with really little debt. I think 155 is right around the avg. LSAT score. Another thing to consider is if you're interested in public interest work, you can try to get a job that will lead to loan forgiveness. Most schools have LRAP. (I haven't looked into this much because I know it's not the route I intend to take, though it is super tempting)

Ultimately, Emory will provide you with better employment opportunities. Howard's employment is less than 50% and of that, 23.3% are under-employed, meaning they're doing a job that doesn't require the degree they spent three years accruing debt and working towards getting and their bar passage rate is just below 60%, which isn't very promising. There's a couple things to consider here: Unless you get a complete scholly from Howard (and perhaps even then), you'll have to take out loans (if a complete scholly, possibly still for living expenses, etc.) Even if it's a relatively small amt... Say.... <$50k, if you come out of law school and are having difficulty finding a job, that loan amt is going to suck. Additionally, one of the most crucial steps to becoming a lawyer is passing the bar, and it seems like for whatever reason, a little less than half of Howard grads are ill-prepared to do so.

It's good to be debt averse but also consider that it's going to be somewhat of a "You get what you pay for" type of thing and it may be worth picking up more debt in order to go to a school that will better equip you for the next step (employment, paying off debt due to better chance at employment, etc)... or holding off and retaking, getting into the mid-/upper-160s, and seeing T14 acceptances pour in with $$.

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 6:16 am

WannabeLawyer95 wrote:I'm not sure what I want to do. I want to have the best career possible. I'm open to exploring different paths but I know that corporate law is pretty much a no-go for me.
I want to be in the best position to make money and be successful but also minimize debt along the way.


So what does this mean?

If you don't want to practice "corporate law", you're kind of already screwing yourself out of your second goal of making money, because most non-biglaw salaries are pretty mediocre (or just terrible, depending on how far down you go). So what are those "different paths" you think you want to explore?

But you should retake. I'm assuming that you're AA (correct me if I'm wrong), so pushing your score into the mid-to-high 160s would give you a shot at the T14, or at the very least get you a full scholarship to a flagship state school.

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby Colonel_funkadunk » Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:03 am

i thought this said "harvard law v emory". i would've enjoyed that thread more

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby jjcorvino » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:19 am

WannabeLawyer95 wrote:
brinicolec wrote:What are your stats relative to Emory's (25/50/75 GPA and LSAT)? Would you be willing to wait until next cycle and retake for a higher LSAT score?

3.85 GPA, 155 lsat. Most likely won't retake.


I think you are making a big mistake not retaking. Let me put it this way, if I offered you $100k in cash and auto admission to a much better school for retaking and scoring mid 160s, would you take that? You obviously would make an attempt. I don't know why you wouldn't do the same when it is the school offering you this potential money.

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby lnsl123 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:21 am

.
Last edited by lnsl123 on Mon Mar 13, 2017 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lymenheimer

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby lymenheimer » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:48 am

cavalier1138 wrote: I'm assuming that you're AA

Doesnt have to be an assumption. You could just read the OP

WannabeLawyer95 wrote: (I'm AA)

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby waldorf » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:20 pm

jjcorvino wrote:
WannabeLawyer95 wrote:
brinicolec wrote:What are your stats relative to Emory's (25/50/75 GPA and LSAT)? Would you be willing to wait until next cycle and retake for a higher LSAT score?

3.85 GPA, 155 lsat. Most likely won't retake.


I think you are making a big mistake not retaking. Let me put it this way, if I offered you $100k in cash and auto admission to a much better school for retaking and scoring mid 160s, would you take that? You obviously would make an attempt. I don't know why you wouldn't do the same when it is the school offering you this potential money.


I'm not nearly as pro retake as a lot of TLS is, but I think with a 155 you HAVE to retake. You have a great GPA, and 155 is not difficult to improve from if you're willing to work. You're clearly intelligent, or you wouldn't have a 3.85. Many people with diagnostics in the 140s end up in the 170s. Even breaking 160 would open a lot more doors for you. Retake, retake, retake.

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby proteinshake » Mon Jan 23, 2017 12:33 pm

Retake.

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Ferrisjso

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby Ferrisjso » Mon Jan 23, 2017 2:54 pm

Both great options. Howard is much better than the standard TTT bevause of its status as the best HCBU apparently gets it killer OCIs. Still if Emory is only 20k a year total and you want to practice in Atlanta,Id go with that. Wont advise you NOT to retake because if you believe you can do a few points better(and are okay waiting a year) you should but youre in a great position and there is a clear answer here I feel. Ive heard AAs offer a special expierebce for AA that as a non AA i guess i cant understand but if you feel that that is necessary for you(I know for some AA's it is) Howard could be worth it. If youre high in your class at Howard youll have similar employment oppurtunities to the T14(there are old threads about this that are very intersting you should google Top law schools forums howard) from what ive read but if youre not its basically a TTT. If you want Atlanta/Georgia though Emory is really the best you can do outside of the T14 and you have a good scholly. If you got that much from Emory though Howard should be giving you a full ride. Im a kinda URM with a 156, 3.50 and i got close to a full ride from a school with similar medians(and again Howard punches higher than its rank the question you should ask is how much higher and is that worth it?) Wish you all the best, congratulations on getting into such a great schools!

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:03 pm

lymenheimer wrote: Doesnt have to be an assumption. You could just read the OP


Where's the fun in that?

Ferrisjso wrote:Both great options. Howard is much better than the standard TTT bevause of its status as the best HCBU apparently gets it killer OCIs. Still if Emory is only 20k a year total and you want to practice in Atlanta,Id go with that. Wont advise you NOT to retake because if you believe you can do a few points better(and are okay waiting a year) you should but youre in a great position and there is a clear answer here I feel. Ive heard AAs offer a special expierebce for AA that as a non AA i guess i cant understand but if you feel that that is necessary for you(I know for some AA's it is) Howard could be worth it. If youre high in your class at Howard youll have similar employment oppurtunities to the T14(there are old threads about this that are very intersting you should google Top law schools forums howard) from what ive read but if youre not its basically a TTT. If you want Atlanta/Georgia though Emory is really the best you can do outside of the T14 and you have a good scholly. If you got that much from Emory though Howard should be giving you a full ride. Im a kinda URM with a 156, 3.50 and i got close to a full ride from a school with similar medians(and again Howard punches higher than its rank the question you should ask is how much higher and is that worth it?) Wish you all the best, congratulations on getting into such a great schools!


As always, no. OP is looking to maximize options and minimize debt. That will take a higher LSAT or a lower standard of school.

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby Rigo » Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:12 pm

I wouldn't do Howard. That's a pretty decent package for Emory given your LSAT honestly. You can always negotiate too.
And you may snag better schools too.

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby Ferrisjso » Mon Jan 23, 2017 4:07 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
lymenheimer wrote: Doesnt have to be an assumption. You could just read the OP


Where's the fun in that?

Ferrisjso wrote:Both great options. Howard is much better than the standard TTT bevause of its status as the best HCBU apparently gets it killer OCIs. Still if Emory is only 20k a year total and you want to practice in Atlanta,Id go with that. Wont advise you NOT to retake because if you believe you can do a few points better(and are okay waiting a year) you should but youre in a great position and there is a clear answer here I feel. Ive heard AAs offer a special expierebce for AA that as a non AA i guess i cant understand but if you feel that that is necessary for you(I know for some AA's it is) Howard could be worth it. If youre high in your class at Howard youll have similar employment oppurtunities to the T14(there are old threads about this that are very intersting you should google Top law schools forums howard) from what ive read but if youre not its basically a TTT. If you want Atlanta/Georgia though Emory is really the best you can do outside of the T14 and you have a good scholly. If you got that much from Emory though Howard should be giving you a full ride. Im a kinda URM with a 156, 3.50 and i got close to a full ride from a school with similar medians(and again Howard punches higher than its rank the question you should ask is how much higher and is that worth it?) Wish you all the best, congratulations on getting into such a great schools!


As always, no. OP is looking to maximize options and minimize debt. That will take a higher LSAT or a lower standard of school.


Emory and Howard are both fine schools and that's a great deal for Emory. He's probably got a full ride from Howard and Howard's not your typical TTT.

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby 01panm » Mon Jan 23, 2017 7:47 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:Emory and Howard are both fine schools and that's a great deal for Emory. He's probably got a full ride from Howard and Howard's not your typical TTT.


Howard has a 50% bar passage required rate and a 30% unemployment rate - it's not a fine school. It's not about rank (I don't even know Howard's rank) - it's about the fact that you have just a 1/2 chance of being a lawyer and a 1/3 chance of being unemployed.

TLS may tell everyone to retake but OP really is a textbook case of someone who should. Having a 3.85 as an AA means literally any law school is reachable. Even with the scholarship, OP is still paying 60k for law school. A couple more points on the LSAT and it will be free.

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby Ferrisjso » Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:59 pm

01panm wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Emory and Howard are both fine schools and that's a great deal for Emory. He's probably got a full ride from Howard and Howard's not your typical TTT.


Howard has a 50% bar passage required rate and a 30% unemployment rate - it's not a fine school. It's not about rank (I don't even know Howard's rank) - it's about the fact that you have just a 1/2 chance of being a lawyer and a 1/3 chance of being unemployed.

TLS may tell everyone to retake but OP really is a textbook case of someone who should. Having a 3.85 as an AA means literally any law school is reachable. Even with the scholarship, OP is still paying 60k for law school. A couple more points on the LSAT and it will be free.


This is true and if OP wants to wait a year/thinks he can improve that's a great idea. If he doesn't want to wait a year or think he can improve several points he's in a good position to go to law school. 60k total for a place like Emory is a good deal, no a great deal for OP's numbers and if he doesn't raise his LSAT from a retake there is no guarantee he'll get it again(Howard yeah he's probably getting a full ride no matter what). Obviously Emory is better and is the right choice here on paper but Howard does punch above it's rank and numbers in terms of the students at the top. Like I said before for the bottom half it's just another TTT but for the top third or so the opportunities are as good as an elite school(no other peer school can say the same). There were some interesting threads on this in the archive where some people even turned down the T14 for Howard(obviously I think that's a stupid decision but the fact people make it should say something). Some AA's really want the HCBU environment(I'm not an AA but I've heard this from many people and read it in these threads as well). Howard is the only HCBU law school that isn't terrible(asterisk for NCC due to it's great price) so it's the natural choice if that is what OP is looking for. Again my advice to OP is to take the money from Emory if he doesn't want to wait a year and/or doesn't think he'll do better on the LSAT.

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:11 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:Again my advice to OP is to take the money from Emory if he doesn't want to wait a year and/or doesn't think he'll do better on the LSAT.


I think you should apply this philosophy broadly in life. If you don't think you can do something and you don't want to invest any time in trying, just don't bother. Solid advice.

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby guynourmin » Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:59 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Again my advice to OP is to take the money from Emory if he doesn't want to wait a year and/or doesn't think he'll do better on the LSAT.


I think you should apply this philosophy broadly in life. If you don't think you can do something and you don't want to invest any time in trying, just don't bother. Solid advice.


I don't really believe Ferrisjso's not a troll at this point.

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby BigZuck » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:16 pm

I don't understand the "it's only 60K" thing

Is someone covering COL for the OP? If not then the OP will be like 150K in debt. Even if COL is covered the OP is looking at like 75K debt.

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby Ferrisjso » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:28 pm

guybourdin wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Again my advice to OP is to take the money from Emory if he doesn't want to wait a year and/or doesn't think he'll do better on the LSAT.


I think you should apply this philosophy broadly in life. If you don't think you can do something and you don't want to invest any time in trying, just don't bother. Solid advice.


I don't really believe Ferrisjso's not a troll at this point.


Wow, so anyone who disagrees with you is a troll? Emory at 60k is a really good deal. 60k at any of it's peer schools is good. Big Zuck is right though if COL isn't included in there that changes everything(and I said total in my original post not just tuition). Still that's not a bad deal(for his numbers anyway)but yeah if he thinks he can improve (and doesn't mind waiting a year)he should retake. The poster hasn't said how many times he's taken the LSAT so how much room for growth he has there is an unknown. If he's applying though I'm going to guess the 155 wasn't his first take or he took other times and didn't do as well. He could also just go to Howard for COL(maybe his numbers can get him a stipend?)
Last edited by Ferrisjso on Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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guynourmin

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby guynourmin » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:33 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:
guybourdin wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
Ferrisjso wrote:Again my advice to OP is to take the money from Emory if he doesn't want to wait a year and/or doesn't think he'll do better on the LSAT.


I think you should apply this philosophy broadly in life. If you don't think you can do something and you don't want to invest any time in trying, just don't bother. Solid advice.


I don't really believe Ferrisjso's not a troll at this point.


Wow, so anyone who disagrees with you is a troll? Emory at 60k is not a bad deal.


Except its not 60k - OP is getting 30/yr. Emory is more like 53k/yr, so 23k the first year, then it goes up to 25k, then 26.5k, say. Add COL on top of that: their 509 says 23.5k, but lets pretend OP does better and call is 21k/yr (no inflation here!). Forget fees, books, etc. That's 44k, 46k, and 47.5k. 44k with 2 years of interest at 7% and 45k with 1 year of interest is 100k. So It's not Emory at 60k, its Emory at just under 150k (and probably just over - I rounded everything down).

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Re: Howard Law vs. Emory

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:40 pm

Ferrisjso wrote:If he's applying though I'm going to guess the 155 wasn't his first take or he took other times and didn't do as well.

Or he's one of the many people who decide they only want to take the exam once.



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