Paying Full Sticker if...

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glockov

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby glockov » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:27 am

I personally was too debt adverse to even consider paying sticker anywhere, be it HYS or any other top school. If I had 150k laying around I would put it in some index funds. At 40 years of average growth of 7% that would come out to over 2.25 million.

However, you are not me, and it sounds like you are setting yourself up to be in as strong of a negotiation position as possible by applying to peer schools. I would recommend trying to network with alumni of this law school to see what their thoughts are about the value. Does your UG have an alumni directory? That would be a good place to start.

RedPurpleBlue

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby RedPurpleBlue » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:32 am

armc808 wrote:
RedPurpleBlue wrote:
armc808 wrote:I would absolutely pay sticker for Stanford (my dream law school), because, well, a Stanford degree opens up so many doors that debt won't be too big of a problem in the long run.


This is where I personally disagree. I'd rather go to Michigan, Virginia at $$$ or CCN at $$ than pay sticker at HYS, but I'm also debt-adverse and I consider my undergrad (Northwestern) to be my dream school. I also don't believe HYS open up more doors in the long-run (unless we are talking about SCOTUS). The matter of the fact is that for the most part the best students go to the best schools (hence Yales 85%+ yield rate). Logically, if the best students are going to the best schools, then the best schools are going to have the best outcomes. This is all to say that I don't think the education in the T14 varies in quality and that if you're a superstar, you're going to get into those magical doors regardless of where you went in the T14 (or even a few schools outside of the T14). Yale doesn't have more SCOTUS clerks than Georgetown, because SCOTUS has more slots saved for Yale. Yale is simply filled with superstars, while maybe the top 10% of Georgetown are superstars.

Just my $0.02.

I'm not saying you wouldn't have many options available by going to CCN or UVA, they are all excellent schools; however I think it's undeniable that a HYS degree opens up pretty much anything you want--including SCOTUS, which does mean a lot to me--on a level that schools below HYS can't quite match, and that's what I was getting at. They are the considered the best schools in the country (and the world) for a reason, and no matter how one slices it, a Stanford degree on its own carries a bit more weight than a Northwestern degree on its own. It's not a knock on Northwestern, but it is to say that Stanford is a very, very respected school. Personally speaking, Stanford checks off every single box I could possibly think of for a school, and I think I would really enjoy my time there, hence why I'd attend even if I had to pay sticker and accumulate some debt in the short run.


To each his own.

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby addie1412 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:55 am

Previous commenters are way more disciplined than I am. You're saying you'd be motivated to take a year off, study and retake this godforsaken test if you had a T20 acceptance and the cash to pay it in full just lying around? I've been known to tell 170s to retake so I'm definitely down with the TLS retake philosophy but, hell, OP's got the dough. Yolo

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Gitaroo_Dude

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby Gitaroo_Dude » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:51 pm

Based on what the OP is saying, they'd be attending WUSTL at sticker (only Midwestern "T20" school that isn't in the T14).

In this particular instance I think OP has to retake. WUSTL is so generous with scholarships to applicants with solid LSAT scores that you'd be doing yourself a big disservice to attend there without any $. If you have a really good GPA, shoot for a 165 and you'd get at least a good chunk of change from them.

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby mrtux45 » Fri Jan 06, 2017 1:56 pm

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Last edited by mrtux45 on Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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waldorf

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby waldorf » Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:57 pm

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Last edited by waldorf on Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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BlendedUnicorn

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:15 pm

sjs12 wrote:I'm passionate about law

Short term career goals: big law in the city

No you're not.

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waldorf

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby waldorf » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:24 pm

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Last edited by waldorf on Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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glockov

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby glockov » Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:40 pm

sjs12 wrote:
mrtux45 wrote:Personally.. I'd suck it up for one more LSAT retake, keep the stacks of cash, and enjoy a life of luxury instead of forking it over to some law school administrator.

If you really have 150k+ sitting in the bank, why on earth would you be looking to spend all of that on law school..especially if you could A) accept a full scholarship somewhere or B) earn a few more points and reapply to a school that's known for being super generous with $$$.

IMO you have an outstanding head start in life that you're considering giving up


That's basically my dilemma. I really don't want to spend all of this on law school, but I'm not sure I'll get accepted anywhere else that will give me even a remote shot at my career goals.

I'm retaking in February and I hope I can at least improve a couple points and get some money. I'm just not that optimistic, although I don't see how I could do worse than my first take as I've been studying since then AND studied like crazy for the first one.

I'm really hesitant to wait another year if February doesn't go well because 1) I like my job a lot and it pays well, but it isn't intellectually stimulating enough for me to spend another 18 or so months at it and be very happy and 2) I'm so pessimistic after my first LSAT that I'm scared I would take another year off to study and not improve at all and it would have been a total waste of time.

I don't even know if I'm not getting any scholarship money for sure yet as it's only January and I am retaking in a month. This was basically just an abstract question because I have been considering it and was wondering if I was totally insane for doing so.

I really appreciate all the feedback. Thanks, y'all.


Edited: Made a typo in one of my posts. Meant to say there's only two other T20 schools in my geographical area - one is in the T14, one isn't but is probably considered better by most people than the school I'm looking at.



It really comes down to whether you are willing to pay upwards of 150k in order to start law school a year earlier.

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waldorf

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby waldorf » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:04 pm

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Last edited by waldorf on Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigZuck

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby BigZuck » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:42 pm

You're posing a lot of weird hypotheticals and not giving straight answers or straightforward info so not sure what TLS can do for you. You're also abnormally wealthy, whereas TLS generally tries to give advice to normal, debt financing folk.

Go to a school that will likely get you the job you want at an appropriate price. That's it. It's simple. You've gotta figure out all the personal/idiosyncratic stuff.

Personally, I think blowing 150K cash money on a middling law school is dumb. I'd rather spend that money on better things. But maybe you don't think it's dumb. That's cool. You do you, YOLO, etc.

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brinicolec

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby brinicolec » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:48 pm

sjs12 wrote:
glockov wrote:
It really comes down to whether you are willing to pay upwards of 150k in order to start law school a year earlier.


Basically.

So, I guess I'll ask a new question if anyone has any thoughts. Say I don't do significantly better on the LSAT. I was offered a full ride from a state school that I believe is ranked #25 in another state. My employment research doesn't show it feeding much into the areas I'm interested in living in permanently - however, that might be self-selective. Would y'all pay say, even half of sticker price, at a T20 school in the city you wish to live in over a full ride at a lower ranked school in another state?


You have to consider that a lot of people in top schools might not necessarily be interested in working where you want to (which I suppose you have since you mentioned that might be self-selective). A lot of people that go to top schools seem to be interested in biglaw or federal stuff. But either way, you'd have an appealing diploma from a top university and since you have ties to the area anyway, I imagine that you could potentially get internships there and all of that. I, personally, would not pay half of sticker price for a T20 if I was capable of getting a full-ride for a lower school. It doesn't make sense to me. Also, if that's possible for you, you need to negotiate using that lower school and say (in a better way), "A higher ranked school is willing to give me better money however, I still want to go here for x reason but cannot justify this being the right decision in my head when I can go to a better school and be debt-free rather than having to pay $x to attend this school. Is there any way you can offer me more money?"

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Easterbork

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby Easterbork » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:52 pm

You should consider that sticker plus CoL is about 300k. Unless your money is coming from a trust specifically set up to fund your education, it would seem difficult to spend that much of your own money.

What made me want to retake even though I had money to spend on law school was that I thought of applicants with a few more LSAT points than me getting an equivalent scholarship to the money I would have had to spend. Those couple of LSAT points were then the equivalent of all the work I put into saving. If I didn't retake, it would be wiped away like that.

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waldorf

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby waldorf » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:55 pm

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Last edited by waldorf on Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Thomas Hagan, ESQ.

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Fri Jan 06, 2017 4:56 pm

Colonel_funkadunk wrote:there is a big difference between paying sticker at a t14 and paying sticker at indiana tech (rip ft wayne). context matters here


huh? so you're saying that I shouldn't have applied ED Indiana Tech?? :shock: :shock:

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby BigZuck » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:00 pm

sjs12 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:You're posing a lot of weird hypotheticals and not giving straight answers or straightforward info so not sure what TLS can do for you. You're also abnormally wealthy, whereas TLS generally tries to give advice to normal, debt financing folk.

Go to a school that will likely get you the job you want at an appropriate price. That's it. It's simple. You've gotta figure out all the personal/idiosyncratic stuff.

Personally, I think blowing 150K cash money on a middling law school is dumb. I'd rather spend that money on better things. But maybe you don't think it's dumb. That's cool. You do you, YOLO, etc.


I didn't think the second question was weird. :/ But, my situation is definitely not common and I realize that. I was just trying to get a general consensus of "Yeah, I would maybe do that" or "You're totally f*cking insane for even considering that" since this board seems to be pretty good at giving straightforward advice vs. other places (+the people in my own personal life that I could ask) that seem to sugarcoat a lot.

It's weird because there are arbitrary rankings that don't matter (T20, T25) and its vague ("lower ranked school") to the point of being unanswerable.

If you give specific schools (I got into WUSTL and it'll cost me X vs UIUC that will cost me Y and I really want to work in Iowa) then people can answer that question. But asking "would you..." and posing a vague hypothetical like that isn't really going to get you anywhere.

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waldorf

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby waldorf » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:06 pm

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Last edited by waldorf on Fri Sep 15, 2017 10:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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waldorf

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Re: Paying Full Sticker if...

Postby waldorf » Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:11 pm

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