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root_beer

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Postby root_beer » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:17 pm

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Last edited by root_beer on Fri May 19, 2017 12:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mikey

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby Mikey » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:37 pm

I'm sure you might hear something about money from those T14's soon. Just wait until you do, unless they've told you no money already??

What are you goals and stats?

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Unfathomableruckus

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby Unfathomableruckus » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:38 pm

I had a similar dilemma. Took the scholarship and I think it was a good fit for me. I'm very debt averse and pretty deeply rooted in a non-lucrative but important niche field of law, do it works for me. I'd say if you want big money or US politics, go T14 though.

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Clemenceau

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby Clemenceau » Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:42 pm

It's December, you have a ton of time left to squeeze money out of those t14s. Wait to see if they give you any money in the coming months. If they don't, then ask for some.

It's way too early to try to make this decision now.

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nealric

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby nealric » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:33 pm

root_beer wrote:In at a few T14s (Cornell, Duke, UVA, Michigan). Don't have a ton of money or a rich family, so the Fordham offer is very tempting. Curious what the consensus is on decisions like this?


High COL in NYC is worth taking into account. You are still going to graduate with significant debt from Fordham.

What do you want out of your legal career?

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Barack O'Drama

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Thu Dec 15, 2016 1:40 pm

nealric wrote:
root_beer wrote:In at a few T14s (Cornell, Duke, UVA, Michigan). Don't have a ton of money or a rich family, so the Fordham offer is very tempting. Curious what the consensus is on decisions like this?


High COL in NYC is worth taking into account. You are still going to graduate with significant debt from Fordham.

What do you want out of your legal career?


This for sure.
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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proteinshake

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby proteinshake » Sat Dec 17, 2016 2:31 am

umm if you got into Duke/Mich, you probably have numbers that will get you BIG money from Cornell/GULC. just wait.

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby dabigchina » Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:41 am

proteinshake wrote:umm if you got into Duke/Mich, you probably have numbers that will get you BIG money from Cornell/GULC. just wait.

this is not necessarily true.

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proteinshake

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby proteinshake » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:15 am

dabigchina wrote:
proteinshake wrote:umm if you got into Duke/Mich, you probably have numbers that will get you BIG money from Cornell/GULC. just wait.

this is not necessarily true.

I mean yeah but it's likely (of course I'm assuming OP isn't a splitter or anything which is a big assumption), which is why I said probably

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Clemenceau

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby Clemenceau » Sat Dec 17, 2016 11:58 am

proteinshake wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
proteinshake wrote:umm if you got into Duke/Mich, you probably have numbers that will get you BIG money from Cornell/GULC. just wait.

this is not necessarily true.

I mean yeah but it's likely (of course I'm assuming OP isn't a splitter or anything which is a big assumption), which is why I said probably


Depends what you mean by big. Someone with like a 3.6/169 is likely getting into all of those schools, and not getting big money from any.

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bretby

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby bretby » Sun Dec 18, 2016 11:15 am

root_beer wrote:In at a few T14s (Cornell, Duke, UVA, Michigan). Don't have a ton of money or a rich family, so the Fordham offer is very tempting. Curious what the consensus is on decisions like this?


You may well be able to negotiate that up to a full ride, depending on your money/acceptances from other schools.

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taxman14

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby taxman14 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:14 am

Bull crap - Fordham is shit for negotiating. Had a Dillard and tried to have them match the full ride and they wouldn't budge.

I also think you guys are making crazy assumptions that OP will get BIG money at the lower T14 just because he got into Duke/Michigan. Maybe a small scholarship to incentivize him to go a tad lower rank. I think you're giving him fairly misrepresentative info that could make him have unrealistic goals.

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:43 am

taxman14 wrote:Had a Dillard and tried to have them match the full ride and they wouldn't budge.


Why would you even bother?

I'm not saying that Fordham will negotiate (I don't know their reputation on that front), but in your case, there was no way you were going to attend Fordham. They likely didn't want to waste time negotiating an offer that wouldn't affect your decision.

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Toni V

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby Toni V » Wed Dec 21, 2016 9:55 am

What state (or city) do you want to practice in? Get your JD at the best law school in that area. IMHO: No reason to head to the high COL northeast unless you want an Ivy or T14.

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taxman14

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby taxman14 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:11 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
taxman14 wrote:Had a Dillard and tried to have them match the full ride and they wouldn't budge.


Why would you even bother?

I'm not saying that Fordham will negotiate (I don't know their reputation on that front), but in your case, there was no way you were going to attend Fordham. They likely didn't want to waste time negotiating an offer that wouldn't affect your decision.


Not true - maybe I had a strong preference for NYC over the south?

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby Paul Campos » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:38 am

That offer from Fordham is going to leave you $150K in debt. Fordham's tuition is going to average $60K for the three years you're there. As has been mentioned already the COL factor here is crucial. They estimate their nine-month COL as $27K, which is unrealistically low. Fordham is in mid-town. If you're anywhere within a reasonable commute you are going to find it very difficult to pay less than 2K per month in rent, and that's with a roommate or two. And that's the nine month COL, which means you have a full year of living expenses unaccounted for by the time you take the bar. Manhattan rents are just completely insane now, and it's something prospective law students have to take into account.

Even at sticker Michigan and Duke are going to make more sense (I'm not saying to do it as "more sense" doesn't mean "enough sense"). Don't go $150K in debt to go to Fordham.

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 11:56 am

taxman14 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
taxman14 wrote:Had a Dillard and tried to have them match the full ride and they wouldn't budge.


Why would you even bother?

I'm not saying that Fordham will negotiate (I don't know their reputation on that front), but in your case, there was no way you were going to attend Fordham. They likely didn't want to waste time negotiating an offer that wouldn't affect your decision.


Not true - maybe I had a strong preference for NYC over the south?


Sure. Except that's bullshit, and if you have Dillard stats at UVA, you got money at NYU/Columbia.

What would your negotiation have looked like? "Thanks for raising the offer. Now that it will cost me the exact same amount (let's pretend COL is equivalent for funsies) to go to Fordham as it will to go to a school with much better odds of placing me in NYC biglaw, I'm going to choose Fordham."

Fordham isn't a bad school, but their adcomms also aren't morons. If you had a full ride offer at UVA, they knew damn well you weren't going to take anything they offered. Frankly, it was a dick move to ask them in the first place, because no one would be stupid enough to think it was a good faith negotiation.

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taxman14

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby taxman14 » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:07 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
taxman14 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
taxman14 wrote:Had a Dillard and tried to have them match the full ride and they wouldn't budge.


Why would you even bother?

I'm not saying that Fordham will negotiate (I don't know their reputation on that front), but in your case, there was no way you were going to attend Fordham. They likely didn't want to waste time negotiating an offer that wouldn't affect your decision.


Not true - maybe I had a strong preference for NYC over the south?


Sure. Except that's bullshit, and if you have Dillard stats at UVA, you got money at NYU/Columbia.

What would your negotiation have looked like? "Thanks for raising the offer. Now that it will cost me the exact same amount (let's pretend COL is equivalent for funsies) to go to Fordham as it will to go to a school with much better odds of placing me in NYC biglaw, I'm going to choose Fordham."

Fordham isn't a bad school, but their adcomms also aren't morons. If you had a full ride offer at UVA, they knew damn well you weren't going to take anything they offered. Frankly, it was a dick move to ask them in the first place, because no one would be stupid enough to think it was a good faith negotiation.


Nope - haven't gotten anything from NYU or Columbia. Maybe I will in the future, but why not hedge my bets? I don't think it's a dick move - I understand if they didn't want to pony it up because they thought the probability of me not getting money elsewhere was low, but I felt it was a totally fine thing to do. If I got the money and had a better offer elsewhere, I would've withdrawn and they'd have their money back.

Your opinion is just that, I think it was totally fine to do, but people can disagree. At the end of the day, I'm just trying to get the best deal for myself.

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:10 pm

UVA is a feeder school for NYC big law

They probably just didn't trust the judgment of someone who would pick Fordham over UVA

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:11 pm

Anyway OP- it's not even 2017 yet. Just chill and wait for offers to come in for now.

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Thomas Hagan, ESQ.

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Wed Dec 21, 2016 12:37 pm

Paul Campos wrote:That offer from Fordham is going to leave you $150K in debt. Fordham's tuition is going to average $60K for the three years you're there. As has been mentioned already the COL factor here is crucial. They estimate their nine-month COL as $27K, which is unrealistically low. Fordham is in mid-town. If you're anywhere within a reasonable commute you are going to find it very difficult to pay less than 2K per month in rent, and that's with a roommate or two. And that's the nine month COL, which means you have a full year of living expenses unaccounted for by the time you take the bar. Manhattan rents are just completely insane now, and it's something prospective law students have to take into account.

Even at sticker Michigan and Duke are going to make more sense (I'm not saying to do it as "more sense" doesn't mean "enough sense"). Don't go $150K in debt to go to Fordham.


I don't agree with your COL analysis on NYC. You underestimate how easy it is to get around here in Manhattan. As is the case with most Manhattan schools (particularly NYU), you don't have to live in the immediate neighborhood of the school. Yes, it's insanely expensive if you live in Columbus Circle but why live there? It's perfectly normal for people to find much more affordable housing scattered throughout Manhattan (and there are plenty). Just go a little uptown on the 1,2,3 subway and you'll find plenty of $1,200/month rent.

I think it's realistic to calculate nine-month COL as $27k. I live in Manhattan currently and only pay $1,200 in rent and add in another $1000 per month on groceries and going out? That's way below $27k/9 months.

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby Paul Campos » Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:55 pm

I'm surprised you can manage to live in Manhattan on $2,200 per month. Per the latest rent stats, the cheapest area of Manhattan is Harlem, and 1-bedrooms without doormen average $2,300. That goes up to more than $4,000 in Tribeca (again for 1-bedroom places). The average studio across the entire borough is nearly $2,700. Those are averages of course, but still.

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chasima

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby chasima » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:05 pm

<3
Last edited by chasima on Thu Mar 30, 2017 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Thomas Hagan, ESQ.

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:11 pm

Paul Campos wrote:I'm surprised you can manage to live in Manhattan on $2,200 per month. Per the latest rent stats, the cheapest area of Manhattan is Harlem, and 1-bedrooms without doormen average $2,300. That goes up to more than $4,000 in Tribeca (again for 1-bedroom places). The average studio across the entire borough is nearly $2,700. Those are averages of course, but still.



Ah I should've clarified. I live in a 2 bedroom and we pay $2,400 total/$1,200 each (Lennox Hill neighborhood). I also know a bunch of people who get 1 bedrooms with huge living rooms and then use curtains/dividers to make a convertible second room. Harlem is actually not a bad neighborhood anymore hahah bunch of friends live in like a 5 bedroom 2 floor apt in Spanish Harlem (100th street,1st avenue area) and each pay under $1000. Brooklyn and Astoria (queens) are also up-and-coming neighborhoods that are easily accessible by the subway.

I think NYC is surprisingly affordable if you look into it! If you're open to sharing space with roommates, you won't have too much trouble finding something within the $1000-$1200 range. :D

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Thomas Hagan, ESQ.

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Re: Fordham with $45k/year, or T14 at sticker?

Postby Thomas Hagan, ESQ. » Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:13 pm

chasima wrote:I don't know anyone personally who lives in the city and pays $2k a month on rent with roommates. That's ridiculous. You can definitely find a decent, safe place in Harlem under $900/month with roommates that's easily commutable to Columbus Circle or in Jersey/Queens/Brooklyn on a direct train line to Columbus Circle a little further out that wouldn't be totally awful if you're trying to save money.

ETA: Jersey is actually really easy to get to from the west side


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