3T or shoot for 2T? URM and strong softs, low GPA

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curry1

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Re: 3T or shoot for 2T? URM and strong softs, low GPA

Postby curry1 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 1:42 am

gbullock19 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
gbullock19 wrote:
curry1 wrote:
lawlorbust wrote:Why do you think that you'll be in top 10% or make law review?



Just FYI, that sort of studying will guarantee that you don't break the median at whatever school you go to. Memorizing the law as a set of rote facts is useless, and memorizing generic information is even more useless. Law school professors teach the law in their own way, and they will want to see certain topics addressed with a certain style. Going into law school thinking that you already understand the law is one of the only surefire ways to make sure you absolutely aren't in the top half of your class.

But even without all that, it is monumentally stupid to plan on being in the top 10% of your class.


It's not a "plan" it's a goal, if I end up in top 25% I'll be happy. If you go back to my original statement, I posed a hypothetical question. I never said I understood the law, I listed my experience. I'm not memorizing, I'm reading to understand conceptual principles of the law & get used to the style. I know A LOT of lawyers and I'm not going into this eyes wide shut. The bitterness is this post is so blatant that it's shocking lol


given your posting history I can confidently say that there is significantly above a 75% chance of you not reaching your "goal" and thus not being happy.

lavarman84

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Re: 3T or shoot for 2T? URM and strong softs, low GPA

Postby lavarman84 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 5:27 am

gbullock19 wrote:
curry1 wrote:
lawlorbust wrote:Why do you think that you'll be in top 10% or make law review?


*is incredibly below the LSAT/GPA medians for a TTT
*making decision to attend said TTT based on outcomes for top 10%/law reviewers (which aren't even generally very good)
0l special snowflake syndrome is too real


I worked as a claims adjuster for 4 years and know a lot about the law, torts, different types of negligence, liability, etc. already. Negotiated with attorney's on a daily basis including responding and reading 900 page time limit demands. Studying and preparing for discovery.

I'm studying and reading cases, learning to write briefs and respond to hypos now. My cousin who went to USC is coaching me. Has sent me over 1000 pages of hornbooks in every area of 1st year courses. Also taking BARBI week prep before law school. So yeah that's why :roll: ....I feel like on this site you guys get caught up in the numbers ...so I'm giving you more background.


Don't do this. It's not helpful. Your professors will teach you the law during 1L. You don't need to know the law according to the hornbook. You need to know the law according to your professor. You're wasting your time and potential hurting yourself.

The best thing your cousin could do for you (if he or she is a graduate or a 2L/3L) is teach you how to conduct legal analysis on issue spotters and how to organize/structure exam answers. A lot of it will probably go over your head at this point, but if you retain anything, it would be advantageous. Again though, that's not a particularly good use of your time. But it's the best your cousin could help you.

gbullock19 wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:What do you want to do with a law degree?


I would like to work in a small firm doing either disability law or combination of employment/disability. However, I'm also interested in medical malpractice. All small firms to low-midsize though.


A few important things here:
1. Specialty rankings are generally not meaningful. They're generally based on professors, not job outcomes.
2. If you're interested in working for small firms, grades aren't as important. It helps to have amazing grades, but it'll be much more important to network and intern if you want to do what you listed above. Thus, you need to go to a law school in or near where you want to work. That will allow you to network while in law school and hopefully spend a year or two interning for a small firm that will hire you after graduation. Often, that's how small firms hire.
3. Work hard on the LSAT so you can graduate with no debt or minimal debt. It'll make your life a lot easier.
4. Your work experience should help you. I also wouldn't write off insurance defense if you want to do Med Mal work. You just need to know what you're getting into. If you go into insurance defense, go to a firm that allows you to work cases rather than a firm that operates on an assembly line model. I know of many successful med mal lawyers. They like to hire young associates with experience doing insurance defense because they have experience managing and trying cases. Small firms put a lot of responsibility on young lawyers. Thus, many of them need lawyers who know how to manage a case.

cavalier1138

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Re: 3T or shoot for 2T? URM and strong softs, low GPA

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 6:19 am

gbullock19 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:Just FYI, that sort of studying will guarantee that you don't break the median at whatever school you go to. Memorizing the law as a set of rote facts is useless, and memorizing generic information is even more useless. Law school professors teach the law in their own way, and they will want to see certain topics addressed with a certain style. Going into law school thinking that you already understand the law is one of the only surefire ways to make sure you absolutely aren't in the top half of your class.

But even without all that, it is monumentally stupid to plan on being in the top 10% of your class.


It's not a "plan" it's a goal, if I end up in top 25% I'll be happy. If you go back to my original statement, I posed a hypothetical question. I never said I understood the law, I listed my experience. I'm not memorizing, I'm reading to understand conceptual principles of the law & get used to the style. I know A LOT of lawyers and I'm not going into this eyes wide shut. The bitterness is this post is so blatant that it's shocking lol


Yes, I'm clearly bitter about not having to make the agonizing decision between a second and third-tier school. Unless you and I have different definitions of "bitter", which would not surprise me.

The problem is that you are planning on attending a school with variable (or bad, depending on how low you reach) employment outcomes without a significant scholarship. And that means that you're planning on being at the top of your class, to ensure that you have decent employment chances after graduation. The cherry on top is that you're relying on specialty rankings, which are well known to be complete bullshit.

I have no horse in this race. If you torch your future career based on your own arrogance and misconceptions, I am not harmed by it. But you may have noticed that everyone has responded the exact same way to your question about what happens when you're in the top 10% (you've now backpedaled to top 25%, but same thing). So either everyone here is just "bitter" (still not sure what people would be bitter about or how that would affect you), or maybe, just maybe, everyone telling you how forced curves work in law school knows a little bit more about law school grading than you do.

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pancakes3

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Re: 3T or shoot for 2T? URM and strong softs, low GPA

Postby pancakes3 » Thu Dec 01, 2016 11:20 am

gbullock19 wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:why don't you spend less time studying law and more time studying the LSAT?


I don't think one cancels out the other. Most of this is not concurrent. I can't study for LSAT more than 5 hours a day. Other reading I'm doing now is minimal until prep class starts on 12/31 & in-between self-study, most of the in-depth will be post-LSAT in feb, but I am browsing and gathering materials now.


1) It's not about how many hours of LSAT you study; it's about how much improvement in LSAT score you achieve. If you find that you're not getting better on 5 hrs a day, you can either (a) spend more hours, or (b) change your approach on how you're studying. There are tips on this forum on how to approach LSAT prep.

2) You can widely or narrowly define "concurrent." Even if you're not studying law materials and LSAT materials concurrently in the same day, you're studying concurrently over this period now when you're preparing to apply to law school. There is only a finite amount of time and you're dedicating portions of it to law material prep instead of LSAT which to put it mildly - is putting the cart before the horse.

3) There are no (or very few) 85k jobs for recent law grads. The pay for lawyers follows a bimodal distribution with the non-biglaw jobs paying less than 65k, and biglaw jobs paying 160-180k. Really it's trimodal with there being a significant number of lawyers not being able to find jobs upon graduation.

4) There are lots more law grads as there are open positions so unemployment is an inevitability in the current system.
see: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=192753&p=9660836&hilit=Vale#p9660836
http://jdunderground.com/all/

So again, I ask you... why don't you spend less time studying law and more time studying the LSAT?

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Johann

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Re: 3T or shoot for 2T? URM and strong softs, low GPA

Postby Johann » Thu Dec 01, 2016 12:41 pm

gbullock19 wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:oh jesus christ 90-120k. no dont do this. youre gonna take a massive paycut to start and probably be about 5-10 years until you are at 100k assuming you stay in law, which most dont cause law sucks.


It's not about the money for me though. I was miserable doing what I was doing before. I honestly am ok with working my way to 100k b/c though I could make the 90-120k it was sparse with no benefits/vacation also in places I didn't want to live. Same staff jobs doing same job not contracting are about 57k maxing at about 68k.

Did you go to law school to be a top earner? Is that why you say it sucks....I need more of your perspective to evaluate that statement.

If I'm honest that's not my top priority though I don't want to make lower than 65k.


I went to law school because I graduted from undergrad into the 2008 recession without any job prospects. I didn't research law school at all. I didn't expect a top earning outcome, and my goals in life have always just been to have a skill that people and companies need that can pay the bills for a family.

The reason I think law sucks is because I graduated from law school with about 300 people less than 5 years ago. At least half, maybe 2/3 at this point have left law because they did not like it. Many different people in many different situations left for a variety of different reasons. Some in biglaw left because the stress/hours/all nighters/affect on dating life and personal relationships. Some in small firms left because the pay was not good and benefits were even worse and they needed health insurance for their family. Some in litigation left because its a thankless job of getting yelled at all day by your own clients you represent and opposing counsel. Others with their own shops left law because of the stress to find clients and work. Ive known people making 30k that left law and people making 200k that left law. I suggest you talk to people in law you know and ask them for honest opinions about their jobs. Overall, most people go into law very naive about what it actually entails and its a terrible personality fit for most. I don't like it and think i'm wasting my analytical skills because its a very rote job without much room for thinking outside the box, but I can tolerate the confrontation, stress, etc.

I've had multiple different law jobs ranging from the shitlaw (small firm low pay) to biglaw. Shitlaw kind of sucked because I was not being trained but I was in court 3 days a week starting the day I got barred and I was making $35k a year in a big city with no benefits. I also had to travel to courthouses in collar counties so lots of driving which kind of sucked too. Biglaw sucks because I'm not really gaining broad skills (very niche skills that aren't that applicable to other areas), pull about 10 all nighters a year, travel for work as well, bill 2000 billables and put in another 500 non billables, and dont get to go on vacation without being tied to my email.

happy to discuss more over pm or here if you have specific questions

gbullock19

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Re: 3T or shoot for 2T? URM and strong softs, low GPA

Postby gbullock19 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:17 am

lawman84 wrote:
gbullock19 wrote:
curry1 wrote:
lawlorbust wrote:Why do you think that you'll be in top 10% or make law review?


*is incredibly below the LSAT/GPA medians for a TTT
*making decision to attend said TTT based on outcomes for top 10%/law reviewers (which aren't even generally very good)
0l special snowflake syndrome is too real


I worked as a claims adjuster for 4 years and know a lot about the law, torts, different types of negligence, liability, etc. already. Negotiated with attorney's on a daily basis including responding and reading 900 page time limit demands. Studying and preparing for discovery.

I'm studying and reading cases, learning to write briefs and respond to hypos now. My cousin who went to USC is coaching me. Has sent me over 1000 pages of hornbooks in every area of 1st year courses. Also taking BARBI week prep before law school. So yeah that's why :roll: ....I feel like on this site you guys get caught up in the numbers ...so I'm giving you more background.


Don't do this. It's not helpful. Your professors will teach you the law during 1L. You don't need to know the law according to the hornbook. You need to know the law according to your professor. You're wasting your time and potential hurting yourself.

The best thing your cousin could do for you (if he or she is a graduate or a 2L/3L) is teach you how to conduct legal analysis on issue spotters and how to organize/structure exam answers. A lot of it will probably go over your head at this point, but if you retain anything, it would be advantageous. Again though, that's not a particularly good use of your time. But it's the best your cousin could help you.

gbullock19 wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:What do you want to do with a law degree?


I would like to work in a small firm doing either disability law or combination of employment/disability. However, I'm also interested in medical malpractice. All small firms to low-midsize though.


A few important things here:
1. Specialty rankings are generally not meaningful. They're generally based on professors, not job outcomes.
2. If you're interested in working for small firms, grades aren't as important. It helps to have amazing grades, but it'll be much more important to network and intern if you want to do what you listed above. Thus, you need to go to a law school in or near where you want to work. That will allow you to network while in law school and hopefully spend a year or two interning for a small firm that will hire you after graduation. Often, that's how small firms hire.
3. Work hard on the LSAT so you can graduate with no debt or minimal debt. It'll make your life a lot easier.
4. Your work experience should help you. I also wouldn't write off insurance defense if you want to do Med Mal work. You just need to know what you're getting into. If you go into insurance defense, go to a firm that allows you to work cases rather than a firm that operates on an assembly line model. I know of many successful med mal lawyers. They like to hire young associates with experience doing insurance defense because they have experience managing and trying cases. Small firms put a lot of responsibility on young lawyers. Thus, many of them need lawyers who know how to manage a case.


Thank you #4 is helpful.

As far as number one, wouldn't you say some schools are known for certain types of law? I mean, with the CDC being right here in Atlanta and the courses I've seen available as comparable to other health law courses at other schools, it's hard to believe the specialty ranking (at least for GSU, I can't speak for other schools) so totally "not meaningful". After all, one wouldn't go to law school in Montana and study environmental law, right?

gbullock19

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Re: 3T or shoot for 2T? URM and strong softs, low GPA

Postby gbullock19 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:30 am

pancakes3 wrote:
gbullock19 wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:why don't you spend less time studying law and more time studying the LSAT?


I don't think one cancels out the other. Most of this is not concurrent. I can't study for LSAT more than 5 hours a day. Other reading I'm doing now is minimal until prep class starts on 12/31 & in-between self-study, most of the in-depth will be post-LSAT in feb, but I am browsing and gathering materials now.


1) It's not about how many hours of LSAT you study; it's about how much improvement in LSAT score you achieve. If you find that you're not getting better on 5 hrs a day, you can either (a) spend more hours, or (b) change your approach on how you're studying. There are tips on this forum on how to approach LSAT prep.

2) You can widely or narrowly define "concurrent." Even if you're not studying law materials and LSAT materials concurrently in the same day, you're studying concurrently over this period now when you're preparing to apply to law school. There is only a finite amount of time and you're dedicating portions of it to law material prep instead of LSAT which to put it mildly - is putting the cart before the horse.

3) There are no (or very few) 85k jobs for recent law grads. The pay for lawyers follows a bimodal distribution with the non-biglaw jobs paying less than 65k, and biglaw jobs paying 160-180k. Really it's trimodal with there being a significant number of lawyers not being able to find jobs upon graduation.

4) There are lots more law grads as there are open positions so unemployment is an inevitability in the current system.
see: http://top-law-schools.com/forums/viewt ... e#p9660836
http://jdunderground.com/all/

So again, I ask you... why don't you spend less time studying law and more time studying the LSAT?


Thanks for the input. Earlier today I talked to a lady who was an event planner for a law school. She said she ended up making friends with several students who are now lawyers...

Lawyer #1 lives in NYC started first year out of school 80k and within 5 years worked her way up to 120k, then started her own practice now after costs, makes about 100k

Lawyer #2 lives in ATL started at 65k and now in her 3rd year of practice makes 95k.

Neither one of these girls went to schools in the top 50

What she emphasized to me is that networking is key. Forming alliances in school and beyond. The thing I like is that you can advance your pay in law. Very few industries are like that. I know as a claims adjuster you could start as low as 35k and the most you will ever make (non-managerial) is about 70k. And even those jobs are going away. I'm not unrealistic about what I'm in for and ...like everyone else...I've watched all the "DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL" youtube videos and read the articles. I expect it to be a lot of work. I expect to do grunt work the first couple of years. I think my outlook now is a little different than yours was about going to law school but it's very helpful to hear the different perspectives.

gbullock19

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Re: 3T or shoot for 2T? URM and strong softs, low GPA

Postby gbullock19 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 5:30 am

gbullock19 wrote:
lawman84 wrote:
gbullock19 wrote:
curry1 wrote:
lawlorbust wrote:Why do you think that you'll be in top 10% or make law review?


*is incredibly below the LSAT/GPA medians for a TTT
*making decision to attend said TTT based on outcomes for top 10%/law reviewers (which aren't even generally very good)
0l special snowflake syndrome is too real


I worked as a claims adjuster for 4 years and know a lot about the law, torts, different types of negligence, liability, etc. already. Negotiated with attorney's on a daily basis including responding and reading 900 page time limit demands. Studying and preparing for discovery.

I'm studying and reading cases, learning to write briefs and respond to hypos now. My cousin who went to USC is coaching me. Has sent me over 1000 pages of hornbooks in every area of 1st year courses. Also taking BARBI week prep before law school. So yeah that's why :roll: ....I feel like on this site you guys get caught up in the numbers ...so I'm giving you more background.


Don't do this. It's not helpful. Your professors will teach you the law during 1L. You don't need to know the law according to the hornbook. You need to know the law according to your professor. You're wasting your time and potential hurting yourself.

The best thing your cousin could do for you (if he or she is a graduate or a 2L/3L) is teach you how to conduct legal analysis on issue spotters and how to organize/structure exam answers. A lot of it will probably go over your head at this point, but if you retain anything, it would be advantageous. Again though, that's not a particularly good use of your time. But it's the best your cousin could help you.

gbullock19 wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:What do you want to do with a law degree?


I would like to work in a small firm doing either disability law or combination of employment/disability. However, I'm also interested in medical malpractice. All small firms to low-midsize though.


A few important things here:
1. Specialty rankings are generally not meaningful. They're generally based on professors, not job outcomes.
2. If you're interested in working for small firms, grades aren't as important. It helps to have amazing grades, but it'll be much more important to network and intern if you want to do what you listed above. Thus, you need to go to a law school in or near where you want to work. That will allow you to network while in law school and hopefully spend a year or two interning for a small firm that will hire you after graduation. Often, that's how small firms hire.
3. Work hard on the LSAT so you can graduate with no debt or minimal debt. It'll make your life a lot easier.
4. Your work experience should help you. I also wouldn't write off insurance defense if you want to do Med Mal work. You just need to know what you're getting into. If you go into insurance defense, go to a firm that allows you to work cases rather than a firm that operates on an assembly line model. I know of many successful med mal lawyers. They like to hire young associates with experience doing insurance defense because they have experience managing and trying cases. Small firms put a lot of responsibility on young lawyers. Thus, many of them need lawyers who know how to manage a case.


Thank you #4 is helpful.

As far as number one, wouldn't you say some schools are known for certain types of law? I mean, with the CDC being right here in Atlanta and the courses I've seen available as comparable to other health law courses at other schools, it's hard to believe the specialty ranking (at least for GSU, I can't speak for other schools) is totally "not meaningful". After all, one wouldn't go to law school in Montana and study environmental law, right?

cavalier1138

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Re: 3T or shoot for 2T? URM and strong softs, low GPA

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:22 am

gbullock19 wrote:Thanks for the input. Earlier today I talked to a lady who was an event planner for a law school. She said she ended up making friends with several students who are now lawyers...

Lawyer #1 lives in NYC started first year out of school 80k and within 5 years worked her way up to 120k, then started her own practice now after costs, makes about 100k

Lawyer #2 lives in ATL started at 65k and now in her 3rd year of practice makes 95k.

Neither one of these girls went to schools in the top 50

What she emphasized to me is that networking is key. Forming alliances in school and beyond. The thing I like is that you can advance your pay in law. Very few industries are like that. I know as a claims adjuster you could start as low as 35k and the most you will ever make (non-managerial) is about 70k. And even those jobs are going away. I'm not unrealistic about what I'm in for and ...like everyone else...I've watched all the "DO NOT GO TO LAW SCHOOL" youtube videos and read the articles. I expect it to be a lot of work. I expect to do grunt work the first couple of years. I think my outlook now is a little different than yours was about going to law school but it's very helpful to hear the different perspectives.


Why on earth are you talking to an event planner about career options?

But regardless, even if you'd heard this stuff directly from these two lawyers, anecdotes do not provide you with accurate pictures of what the majority of students face after graduation. You need to look at the overall employment data on LST to get an idea of what your chances actually are from a given school. And "top 50" is not a school tier. If someone is using it as a cut-off point, you should not assume that they know what they're doing.

gbullock19 wrote:As far as number one, wouldn't you say some schools are known for certain types of law? I mean, with the CDC being right here in Atlanta and the courses I've seen available as comparable to other health law courses at other schools, it's hard to believe the specialty ranking (at least for GSU, I can't speak for other schools) so totally "not meaningful". After all, one wouldn't go to law school in Montana and study environmental law, right?


Outside of the T14 (and even then, it's not really true outside of very specific programs), no. Schools are not known for certain types of law. Course offerings don't matter. Proximity to a government agency doesn't really matter (unless you're only interested in that agency). And even to the extent that schools do have a reputation for placing graduates well in a certain field, the UWNWR specialty rankings do not accurately reflect that.

lavarman84

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Re: 3T or shoot for 2T? URM and strong softs, low GPA

Postby lavarman84 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:29 am

gbullock19 wrote:
lawman84 wrote:
gbullock19 wrote:
curry1 wrote:
lawlorbust wrote:Why do you think that you'll be in top 10% or make law review?


*is incredibly below the LSAT/GPA medians for a TTT
*making decision to attend said TTT based on outcomes for top 10%/law reviewers (which aren't even generally very good)
0l special snowflake syndrome is too real


I worked as a claims adjuster for 4 years and know a lot about the law, torts, different types of negligence, liability, etc. already. Negotiated with attorney's on a daily basis including responding and reading 900 page time limit demands. Studying and preparing for discovery.

I'm studying and reading cases, learning to write briefs and respond to hypos now. My cousin who went to USC is coaching me. Has sent me over 1000 pages of hornbooks in every area of 1st year courses. Also taking BARBI week prep before law school. So yeah that's why :roll: ....I feel like on this site you guys get caught up in the numbers ...so I'm giving you more background.


Don't do this. It's not helpful. Your professors will teach you the law during 1L. You don't need to know the law according to the hornbook. You need to know the law according to your professor. You're wasting your time and potential hurting yourself.

The best thing your cousin could do for you (if he or she is a graduate or a 2L/3L) is teach you how to conduct legal analysis on issue spotters and how to organize/structure exam answers. A lot of it will probably go over your head at this point, but if you retain anything, it would be advantageous. Again though, that's not a particularly good use of your time. But it's the best your cousin could help you.

gbullock19 wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:What do you want to do with a law degree?


I would like to work in a small firm doing either disability law or combination of employment/disability. However, I'm also interested in medical malpractice. All small firms to low-midsize though.


A few important things here:
1. Specialty rankings are generally not meaningful. They're generally based on professors, not job outcomes.
2. If you're interested in working for small firms, grades aren't as important. It helps to have amazing grades, but it'll be much more important to network and intern if you want to do what you listed above. Thus, you need to go to a law school in or near where you want to work. That will allow you to network while in law school and hopefully spend a year or two interning for a small firm that will hire you after graduation. Often, that's how small firms hire.
3. Work hard on the LSAT so you can graduate with no debt or minimal debt. It'll make your life a lot easier.
4. Your work experience should help you. I also wouldn't write off insurance defense if you want to do Med Mal work. You just need to know what you're getting into. If you go into insurance defense, go to a firm that allows you to work cases rather than a firm that operates on an assembly line model. I know of many successful med mal lawyers. They like to hire young associates with experience doing insurance defense because they have experience managing and trying cases. Small firms put a lot of responsibility on young lawyers. Thus, many of them need lawyers who know how to manage a case.


Thank you #4 is helpful.

As far as number one, wouldn't you say some schools are known for certain types of law? I mean, with the CDC being right here in Atlanta and the courses I've seen available as comparable to other health law courses at other schools, it's hard to believe the specialty ranking (at least for GSU, I can't speak for other schools) so totally "not meaningful". After all, one wouldn't go to law school in Montana and study environmental law, right?


Sure. But the extent of that usefulness is the school's ability to get you a job. It doesn't do you any good if your school is known for environmental law but doesn't place its students well in environmental law.

Specialty rankings are generally based on professors and their scholarship, not the likelihood of you getting a job in that field.

That all said, based on your goals, GSU actually sounds like a really good place for you if you can get a solid scholarship.

As for your question, one might go to law school in Montana if said person wants to work in Montana doing environmental law. Vermont Law School is ranked #1 in the environmental law specialty ranking. But it would be absolutely silly to go to school in Vermont if you wanted to do environmental law in Montana.

The biggest advantages of your law school will often be its network and location. You want to go to a law school that is located in or near the market you want to live in.*** Because it will give you opportunities to network and intern/clerk in that area during law school. Plus, that's generally going to be where your law school's network is the strongest.

*** - This advice doesn't necessarily apply for elite law schools that have national reach.

lavarman84

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Re: 3T or shoot for 2T? URM and strong softs, low GPA

Postby lavarman84 » Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:33 am

cavalier1138 wrote:Why on earth are you talking to an event planner about career options?

But regardless, even if you'd heard this stuff directly from these two lawyers, anecdotes do not provide you with accurate pictures of what the majority of students face after graduation. You need to look at the overall employment data on LST to get an idea of what your chances actually are from a given school. And "top 50" is not a school tier. If someone is using it as a cut-off point, you should not assume that they know what they're doing.


Your overall point is right, but the Tier 1 cut-off point is at 50.

Outside of the T14 (and even then, it's not really true outside of very specific programs), no. Schools are not known for certain types of law. Course offerings don't matter. Proximity to a government agency doesn't really matter (unless you're only interested in that agency). And even to the extent that schools do have a reputation for placing graduates well in a certain field, the UWNWR specialty rankings do not accurately reflect that.


Exaggeration. But again, the message is correct.

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Mr. Archer

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Re: 3T or shoot for 2T? URM and strong softs, low GPA

Postby Mr. Archer » Fri Dec 02, 2016 8:55 am

gbullock19 wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:
gbullock19 wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:
Lawyer #1 lives in NYC started first year out of school 80k and within 5 years worked her way up to 120k, then started her own practice now after costs, makes about 100k

Lawyer #2 lives in ATL started at 65k and now in her 3rd year of practice makes 95k.


I would assume the NYC attorney works way too many hours for that pay. NYC is expensive. The attorney in Atlanta is much better off, but you also don't know what kind of hours she works.

The health law ranking isn't important, and I generally agree that schools aren't known for types of law. It's the experience you can get from a school that's important. You also need to make sure you get good grades and experience in law school, and I think you're a little naive about what it takes to be at the top of the class.

All that being said, GSU wouldn't be a bad option for you at its price for in-state tuition. I know GSU has some clinic opportunities and internship opportunities related to health law that would help in getting a career in the field. I used to work with someone who went to GSU and interned at DHS and CDC, but she was getting a JD/MPH. GSU is respected in Atlanta, although it's still behind Emory and UGA as far as reputation.

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Re: 3T or shoot for 2T? URM and strong softs, low GPA

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:09 am

If you want to do health law in Atlanta GSU is a decent option, but because it's in Atlanta, not because it's known for health law.

My previous experience was in academia. It was hard to get past the idea that you should look for a school that's good at X, because that dominates undergrad and MA/PhD programs. But law school just isn't like that. It's a professional program. It's tasked with preparing all its grads to get licensed in law (not environmental law or labor law or health law or...). Also, the first-year curriculum is fixed and basically the same wherever you go, so specialization is limited by that, too. So there really aren't subject specializations that you should be worrying about. You want to consider employment statistics in the field you want in the location you want, and cost.



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