Northwestern ED "too safe"?

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Veil of Ignorance

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Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:54 pm

Hey TLS,

I wanted to garner some opinions about when numbers are "too high" for applying ED to Northwestern. I'm pretty debt averse, so my ideal situation would be going to a T14 (the higher the better, obviously) for as little money as possible. Even though I think I'd have a shot at HYS, I just can't see myself taking on 200k+ of debt. Financial aid isn't going to happen because my parents make a pretty good living, but are done paying for my education :x. It seems like Northwestern ED is a great option, but a big scholarship from MVP would be preferable, in my view. If I had the numbers for a Hamilton or Ruby, I wouldn't be asking this question.

So, assuming you would happily take NW with the 150k scholarship, at what point would you decide that that option was playing it too safe? I know it's extremely subjective, but I find personal views on this stuff interesting and informative.
Last edited by Veil of Ignorance on Thu Nov 17, 2016 5:15 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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btruj777

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby btruj777 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:59 pm

That is not "too safe" that is a promised 150K, you take a huge risk by NOT doing the ED. At that point you have to run the cost benefit analysis and see what you end up losing by going up the rankings. But free T14? in Chicago? I personally would not give that up

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby NUDad » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:20 pm

Personally, I would not ED at Northwestern with those numbers. You're likely to do as well or better through RD. Apply broadly and get the best you deal you can.

20170322

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby 20170322 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:21 pm

btruj777 wrote:That is not "too safe" that is a promised 150K, you take a huge risk by NOT doing the ED. At that point you have to run the cost benefit analysis and see what you end up losing by going up the rankings. But free T14? in Chicago? I personally would not give that up



I disagree.

1) 150k is about 30k short of a full tuition scholarship at NU.

2) I think most people competitive for ED are competitive for comparable or better RD scholarships.

3) There's a value to having leverage to negotiate a higher scholarship at NU, which you lose when you cut off other options.

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby curry1 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:41 pm

Veil of Ignorance wrote:Hey TLS,

I wanted to garner some opinions about when numbers are "too high" for applying ED to Northwestern. I'm pretty debt averse, so my ideal situation would be going to a T14 (the higher the better, obviously) for as little money as possible. Even though I think I'd have a shot at HYS, I just can't see myself taking on 200k+ of debt. Financial aid isn't going to happen because my parents makes a pretty good living, but are done paying for my education :x. It seems like Northwestern ED is a great option, but a big scholarship scholarship from MVP would be preferable, in my view. If I had the numbers for a Hamilton or Ruby, I wouldn't be asking this question.

So, assuming you would happily take NW with the 150k scholarship, at what point would you decide that that option was playing it too safe? I know it's extremely subjective, but I find personal views on this stuff interesting and informative.

(Here's to hoping this doesn't light up some of my newfound TLS "enemies")


if you want to be absolutely sure of getting a very good scholarship then ED NU. If I were you, I would apply broadly and likely get a similar scholarship at peer schools to nu. But the later in the cycle you apply, the harder it becomes to get big money at schools (generally speaking.) I have similar numbers (slightly lower on LSAT). My impression is that a sub-3.8 gpa is not going to get a full or equivalent to NU at an substantially better school than NU (say CCNP). M V and P are very different places. At M, I wouldn't be surprised if you got a Darrow as long as you write a good why mich. I got a near full ride at V early on in the cycle. At Penn, I would be very surprised if you got more than half tuition because they really prioritize high GPA's. Unless you have very specific goals, I think that all of the lower t14 are rather fungible. If you're not interested in paying 300k for HYS and have very limited risk tolerance/definitely want to start law school next year I would ED NU. However, if you're willing to take some marginal risk, you can probably get a very similar scholarship at M or V.

Veil of Ignorance

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:44 pm

SweetTort wrote:
btruj777 wrote:That is not "too safe" that is a promised 150K, you take a huge risk by NOT doing the ED. At that point you have to run the cost benefit analysis and see what you end up losing by going up the rankings. But free T14? in Chicago? I personally would not give that up



I disagree.

1) 150k is about 30k short of a full tuition scholarship at NU.

2) I think most people competitive for ED are competitive for comparable or better RD scholarships.

3) There's a value to having leverage to negotiate a higher scholarship at NU, which you lose when you cut off other options.


Interesting. I figured they saved their big scholarships for the ED candidates, because why would you ever do ED if you had a good shot of getting the same or better with RD?

Also I remember you as the king of the waiter's thread last month. You're also very debt averse, if I remember?

Veil of Ignorance

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:57 pm

curry1 wrote:
Veil of Ignorance wrote:Hey TLS,

I wanted to garner some opinions about when numbers are "too high" for applying ED to Northwestern. I'm pretty debt averse, so my ideal situation would be going to a T14 (the higher the better, obviously) for as little money as possible. Even though I think I'd have a shot at HYS, I just can't see myself taking on 200k+ of debt. Financial aid isn't going to happen because my parents makes a pretty good living, but are done paying for my education :x. It seems like Northwestern ED is a great option, but a big scholarship scholarship from MVP would be preferable, in my view. If I had the numbers for a Hamilton or Ruby, I wouldn't be asking this question.

So, assuming you would happily take NW with the 150k scholarship, at what point would you decide that that option was playing it too safe? I know it's extremely subjective, but I find personal views on this stuff interesting and informative.

(Here's to hoping this doesn't light up some of my newfound TLS "enemies")


if you want to be absolutely sure of getting a very good scholarship then ED NU. If I were you, I would apply broadly and likely get a similar scholarship at peer schools to nu. But the later in the cycle you apply, the harder it becomes to get big money at schools (generally speaking.) I have similar numbers (slightly lower on LSAT). My impression is that a sub-3.8 gpa is not going to get a full or equivalent to NU at an substantially better school than NU (say CCNP). M V and P are very different places. At M, I wouldn't be surprised if you got a Darrow as long as you write a good why mich. I got a near full ride at V early on in the cycle. At Penn, I would be very surprised if you got more than half tuition because they really prioritize high GPA's. Unless you have very specific goals, I think that all of the lower t14 are rather fungible. If you're not interested in paying 300k for HYS and have very limited risk tolerance/definitely want to start law school next year I would ED NU. However, if you're willing to take some marginal risk, you can probably get a very similar scholarship at M or V.


I'm actually not applying until next round. I'm crossing my fingers that applications don't shoot up next cycle, though it looks like they might by a few thousand.... That's good info about Penn. I saw that they have a higher GPA average, so that makes sense that they prioritize it in regards to scholarships. I definitely wish I could trade a few LSAT points for GPA points, but them's the breaks!
Last edited by Veil of Ignorance on Tue Nov 15, 2016 8:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

20170322

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby 20170322 » Tue Nov 15, 2016 7:05 pm

Veil of Ignorance wrote:
SweetTort wrote:
btruj777 wrote:That is not "too safe" that is a promised 150K, you take a huge risk by NOT doing the ED. At that point you have to run the cost benefit analysis and see what you end up losing by going up the rankings. But free T14? in Chicago? I personally would not give that up



I disagree.

1) 150k is about 30k short of a full tuition scholarship at NU.

2) I think most people competitive for ED are competitive for comparable or better RD scholarships.

3) There's a value to having leverage to negotiate a higher scholarship at NU, which you lose when you cut off other options.


Interesting. I figured they saved their big scholarships for the ED candidates, because why would you ever do ED if you had a good shot of getting the same or better with RD?

Also I remember you as the king of the waiter's thread last month. You're also very debt averse, if I remember?



Yeah, I'm super spazzy, esp when it comes to debt.

I think the only reason to do NU ED is if you're SURE NU is the place you want to be, and if you have marginal numbers for a big scholarship.

tskela

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby tskela » Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:44 pm

I've literally been struggling with the decision for two months now and am no closer to deciding. Btw though, the deadline to complete your online interview if you wanted to ED NU was yesterday.

I went ahead and did that and am about to submit all the rest of my apps but still thinking on whether to hit ED for NU. I love love love the school but not having options scares me a little. I'm also not debt averse.

My GPA is lower than yours, similar LSAT, and I'm positive the NU 150K would be the most money I could possibly get from anywhere. And yet I can't seem to pull the trigger

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby radient » Wed Nov 16, 2016 12:02 am

I don't think you need to ED with those stats and you have a very real chance of getting better $ without it. Above both medians at NU has brought out some serious $ the last few cycles and there's really only the psychological edge of having a better idea what you're getting if you do it. Applying RD here is not a significant risk

Veil of Ignorance

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:04 pm

radient wrote:I don't think you need to ED with those stats and you have a very real chance of getting better $ without it. Above both medians at NU has brought out some serious $ the last few cycles and there's really only the psychological edge of having a better idea what you're getting if you do it. Applying RD here is not a significant risk


This is very heartening, thanks.

Veil of Ignorance

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Wed Nov 16, 2016 3:20 pm

tskela wrote:I've literally been struggling with the decision for two months now and am no closer to deciding. Btw though, the deadline to complete your online interview if you wanted to ED NU was yesterday.

I went ahead and did that and am about to submit all the rest of my apps but still thinking on whether to hit ED for NU. I love love love the school but not having options scares me a little. I'm also not debt averse.

My GPA is lower than yours, similar LSAT, and I'm positive the NU 150K would be the most money I could possibly get from anywhere. And yet I can't seem to pull the trigger


Ya I'm applying next cycle, so I've got PLENTY of time to mull this over. The school is awesome and Chicago is one of the greatest cities in the world. But the "what if" is definitely tough.... For you, if you're not debt averse (would you like to explain why?) it seems like maybe keeping your options open is best.

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby chargers21 » Wed Nov 16, 2016 5:09 pm

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Last edited by chargers21 on Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

Veil of Ignorance

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:06 pm

chargers21 wrote:I'm applying ED to Northwestern this cycle in the coming days, but I have a lower LSAT and higher GPA, and getting ED at NU is a reach for me. So no big risk for me, especially since it's my #1 choice for city to work in. For you, with say a 174 and a 3.75, you sound like you're ahead of the game since you are applying next cycle. NU does give out some 165k to RD applicants, and I think if you applied early september next cycle to the t14 schools, you would probably get at least 150k to one of them without ED. I'm not as well versed from personal experience like other TLS people are, but I have been doing some pretty heavy research as of late to see if sitting out a year is worth it if I don't get the 150k to NU this year and if I take the Feb LSAT.

So, since you're next cycle, I wouldn't ED anywhere and just submit early. Best of luck and great job on the LSAT.


Thanks, and good luck to you too!!

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby tskela » Wed Nov 16, 2016 6:15 pm

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Last edited by tskela on Thu Nov 17, 2016 7:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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guynourmin

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby guynourmin » Thu Nov 17, 2016 3:54 pm

I would not ED with those numbers. A well-timed and not horrible app will likely see similar money to a number of schools and then you can negotiate from there. So, yes, I guess EDing would be "too safe" in that regard.


Veil of Ignorance wrote:(Here's to hoping this doesn't light up some of my newfound TLS "enemies")


If I am included in that enemies list, it seemed like I saw your user name pop up multiple times in a row just giving godawful advice. That's super annoying and can actually be harmful to people. Even if it was well-intentioned you have to understand it's going to piss some people off, Captain. Better to not give advice than give terrible advice, right? Probably why there was that little backlash.
Last edited by guynourmin on Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Veil of Ignorance

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby Veil of Ignorance » Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:35 pm

guybourdin wrote:I would not ED with those numbers. A well-timed and not horrible app will likely see similar money to a number of schools and then you can negotiate from there. So, yes, I guess EDing would be "too safe" in that regard.


Veil of Ignorance wrote:(Here's to hoping this doesn't light up some of my newfound TLS "enemies")


If I am included in that enemies list, it seemed like I saw your user name pop up multiple times in a row just giving godawful advice. That's super annoying and can actually be harmful to people.


Ya I was just joshing around, I'm not actually bitter. I suppose my view on that retake w/170 thread could be seen as poor. Also could you take my name out of your post? A bit too much info, and also the reason I changed my username :oops:

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guynourmin

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Re: Northwestern ED "too safe"?

Postby guynourmin » Thu Nov 17, 2016 4:47 pm

Veil of Ignorance wrote:
guybourdin wrote:I would not ED with those numbers. A well-timed and not horrible app will likely see similar money to a number of schools and then you can negotiate from there. So, yes, I guess EDing would be "too safe" in that regard.


Veil of Ignorance wrote:(Here's to hoping this doesn't light up some of my newfound TLS "enemies")


If I am included in that enemies list, it seemed like I saw your user name pop up multiple times in a row just giving godawful advice. That's super annoying and can actually be harmful to people.


Ya I was just joshing around, I'm not actually bitter. I suppose my view on that retake w/170 thread could be seen as poor. Also could you take my name out of your post? A bit too much info, and also the reason I changed my username :oops:


you should get a new profile if you don't want this one associated with your name. Edit, though.



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