CLS if you want to work in Texas?

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nealric

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Re: CLS if you want to work in Texas?

Postby nealric » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:04 pm

lawman84 wrote:
nealric wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:
nealric wrote:
derekne wrote:Hi Everyone,

I've applied to Columbia this cycle and feel very confident that I will be admitted,(3.77, 178). It's my top realistic choice,(Outside of HYS), but I'm not sure if it's the right choice for me job wise. I have absolutely no desire to live or work in NYC after graduation and ultimately want to work in Texas. Would going to Columbia make getting to Texas much harder? Or will career services help you match to jobs wherever you want to go?


If you go to Columbia and have Texas ties, you will almost certainly get Texas biglaw if that's what you want (barring some major economic apocalypse between now and your 2L recruiting season).

Perhaps I'm a bit too risk adverse, but I'd take Columbia sticker over UT full ride.


I don't think that's risk averse, it seems risk-prone.


Risk of getting the job you want. I'd rather be $300k in debt with a good job lined up than no debt and unemployed. Over time, the difference between a big law track attorney and someone in a small firm is a lot more than $300k plus interest.


Depends on the small firm. You stand a much better chance of making partner at a small firm. What you make as a small firm partner will depend on the firm and you as a lawyer. I can tell you that I know small firm partners who make north of $1 million per year.

Looking at the numbers, I see around 10% of Texas grads under the unemployed category. I see around 2.5% of Columbia grads. That 7.5% isn't nearly enough of a difference for me to take on $300,000 more in debt.


Well yeah. You could be the next Joe Jamail and become a billionaire in your small firm. But on average, small-firm lawyers tend to make less. You may or may not be more likely to make partner (highly situational dependent), but it's not like biglaw associates who don't make partner in their firms will never make partner anywhere.

The 7.5% unemployment difference masks much larger differences in employment outcomes. Someone making $40k a year doing low-end personal injury is "employed" the same as a SCOTUS clerk. CLS is going to have more of the latter type. Of course, there's a significant possibility that CLS vs U.T. will have no difference on career outcome, and UT is no doubt an excellent school.
Last edited by nealric on Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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nealric

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Re: CLS if you want to work in Texas?

Postby nealric » Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:06 pm

Big Red wrote:out of curiosity, why does someone who wants ultimately to end up in Texas want to go to NYC for the next three years?


I did this- in part for personal reasons. However, it was actually good to practice in NYC for a few years from a career standpoint. People like hearing that you've had broader experience.

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Re: CLS if you want to work in Texas?

Postby lavarman84 » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:22 pm

nealric wrote:Well yeah. You could be the next Joe Jamail and become a billionaire in your small firm. But on average, small-firm lawyers tend to make less. You may or may not be more likely to make partner (highly situational dependent), but it's not like biglaw associates who don't make partner in their firms will never make partner anywhere.

The 7.5% unemployment difference masks much larger differences in employment outcomes. Someone making $40k a year doing low-end personal injury is "employed" the same as a SCOTUS clerk. CLS is going to have more of the latter type. Of course, there's a significant possibility that CLS vs U.T. will have no difference on career outcome, and UT is no doubt an excellent school.


I'm sure. But your post wasn't saying that. There are a host of reasons for why that is. Your post was saying that the difference between getting a biglaw job and a small firm job would more than make up for the $300,000+ difference from tuition and interest.

My point was that it was a generalization.

As for biglaw associates who are forced out, what do they end up doing? I've always been curious. What does the data say?

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Re: CLS if you want to work in Texas?

Postby dabigchina » Wed Dec 07, 2016 5:30 pm

does OP even have a big scholarship to UT or are we just assuming?

Is OP paying sticker at CLS or are we just assuming?

This thought exercise is kind of useless because there is 0 chance he is going to have this weird binary choice of life ruining debt or going to UT.

ETA: and he has a 178. There is effectively 0 chance he won't get a fat scholarship from some school in the t-14 and a moderate one at CCN.

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Re: CLS if you want to work in Texas?

Postby favabeansoup » Thu Dec 08, 2016 3:30 pm

dabigchina wrote:
This thought exercise is kind of useless because there is 0 chance he is going to have this weird binary choice of life ruining debt or going to UT.

ETA: and he has a 178. There is effectively 0 chance he won't get a fat scholarship from some school in the t-14 and a moderate one at CCN.


^ Exactly.

Full ride at UT would all but guarantee a substantial scholarship at somewhere like Duke or UVA, which would have near equal TX biglaw opportunities as CLS. A real 178 would also definitely give a scholarship at CCN.

There's no point arguing for these hypotheticals that would never actually happen in the real world.

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Re: CLS if you want to work in Texas?

Postby lavarman84 » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:57 am

favabeansoup wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
This thought exercise is kind of useless because there is 0 chance he is going to have this weird binary choice of life ruining debt or going to UT.

ETA: and he has a 178. There is effectively 0 chance he won't get a fat scholarship from some school in the t-14 and a moderate one at CCN.


^ Exactly.

Full ride at UT would all but guarantee a substantial scholarship at somewhere like Duke or UVA, which would have near equal TX biglaw opportunities as CLS. A real 178 would also definitely give a scholarship at CCN.

There's no point arguing for these hypotheticals that would never actually happen in the real world.


That's not the point of the discussion for me. I don't really care about the hypothetical. There are a lot of posters who are infatuated with biglaw on this board. That's great and all but there's no reason to turn your nose up at small firms. That's my point. Nothing wrong with biglaw. It's going to pay the best at the entry level (generally) and is usually the path of least resistance. But going to work with a small firm has a lot of benefits. And there are small firms that actually offer a chance at making plenty of money.

I'd much rather go to work at a good small firm with no debt than go work in biglaw with over $100,000 in debt.

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Re: CLS if you want to work in Texas?

Postby Clearly » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:16 am

The problem is you can start in biglaw and go to a small firm, but very rarely do the opposite

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Re: CLS if you want to work in Texas?

Postby dabigchina » Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:56 am

lawman84 wrote:
favabeansoup wrote:
dabigchina wrote:
This thought exercise is kind of useless because there is 0 chance he is going to have this weird binary choice of life ruining debt or going to UT.

ETA: and he has a 178. There is effectively 0 chance he won't get a fat scholarship from some school in the t-14 and a moderate one at CCN.


^ Exactly.

Full ride at UT would all but guarantee a substantial scholarship at somewhere like Duke or UVA, which would have near equal TX biglaw opportunities as CLS. A real 178 would also definitely give a scholarship at CCN.

There's no point arguing for these hypotheticals that would never actually happen in the real world.


That's not the point of the discussion for me. I don't really care about the hypothetical. There are a lot of posters who are infatuated with biglaw on this board. That's great and all but there's no reason to turn your nose up at small firms. That's my point. Nothing wrong with biglaw. It's going to pay the best at the entry level (generally) and is usually the path of least resistance. But going to work with a small firm has a lot of benefits. And there are small firms that actually offer a chance at making plenty of money.

I'd much rather go to work at a good small firm with no debt than go work in biglaw with over $100,000 in debt.

Fair enough. OP wants biglaw though.



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