Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

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zot1

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby zot1 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:52 pm

Because it has a nice ring to it.

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btruj777

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby btruj777 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:00 pm

curry1 wrote:
nealric wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, though. The rankings are partially based on employment and how judges/lawyers/firms look at each school. As the top 14 is considered prestigious, firms/judges are going to continue hiring people from those schools. Due to this, it's hard for any of those schools to really substantially drop in rankings.


The T14 would still exist even if all rankings vanished from the face of the earth. The top schools were still regarded as such even before magazines started making silly lists. That's just the nature of reputation for things like universities. It's very hard for a new school to break into the top echelons because there's only so much mental space in the category of "good schools". Even where schools have managed to game their way into high rankings (more common on the undergrad side), they often haven't managed to actually secure the same prestige as similarly ranked schools - WUSTL comes to mind on the undergrad front.


Completely right. At the undergrad level, USC/GWU etc. are notorious examples, UChicago to a certain extent as well, no one really thinks of Chicago as good of an overall school as Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc.



Crap, is this Chicago comment true? I thought U Chicago overall was ranked No. 10 Globally?

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby curry1 » Mon Nov 28, 2016 5:07 pm

btruj777 wrote:
curry1 wrote:
nealric wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, though. The rankings are partially based on employment and how judges/lawyers/firms look at each school. As the top 14 is considered prestigious, firms/judges are going to continue hiring people from those schools. Due to this, it's hard for any of those schools to really substantially drop in rankings.


The T14 would still exist even if all rankings vanished from the face of the earth. The top schools were still regarded as such even before magazines started making silly lists. That's just the nature of reputation for things like universities. It's very hard for a new school to break into the top echelons because there's only so much mental space in the category of "good schools". Even where schools have managed to game their way into high rankings (more common on the undergrad side), they often haven't managed to actually secure the same prestige as similarly ranked schools - WUSTL comes to mind on the undergrad front.


Completely right. At the undergrad level, USC/GWU etc. are notorious examples, UChicago to a certain extent as well, no one really thinks of Chicago as good of an overall school as Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc.



Crap, is this Chicago comment true? I thought U Chicago overall was ranked No. 10 Globally?


The point is that the overall university's position in the rankings do not correspond to how relevant decision-makers perceive it (employers). Places like Dartmouth and Penn have better placement than UChicago does for UG. I don't know much about MA/PHD placement, and there are too many varied programs at these schools to really evaluate that. However, Chicago Law is first-rate and its placement does correspond to its ranking.

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First Offense

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby First Offense » Tue Dec 06, 2016 11:10 am

jbagelboy wrote:T14 is not a universal fixture in every market. In southern California, for example, UCLA is regarded as a top school comparable to T14s like Georgetown and Northwestern. The same goes with respect to Vanderbilt for some southern markets.

That could be a function of who they hire though (assuming BigLaw). If you're pulling top 10% of UCLA into your firm and above median from UVA, no one would say that the UCLA student isn't just as qualified as the UVA student.

In DC Georgetown is still viewed as an elite law school, but they're only pulling from the top part of the class. Top regionals are always considered "on par" or close to it to the top national schools - what makes the T14 relevant is they have pull in every market, and not just their regional market.

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby jbagelboy » Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:49 pm

First Offense wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:T14 is not a universal fixture in every market. In southern California, for example, UCLA is regarded as a top school comparable to T14s like Georgetown and Northwestern. The same goes with respect to Vanderbilt for some southern markets.

That could be a function of who they hire though (assuming BigLaw). If you're pulling top 10% of UCLA into your firm and above median from UVA, no one would say that the UCLA student isn't just as qualified as the UVA student.

In DC Georgetown is still viewed as an elite law school, but they're only pulling from the top part of the class. Top regionals are always considered "on par" or close to it to the top national schools - what makes the T14 relevant is they have pull in every market, and not just their regional market.


I agree. I think to the large part that's how it works. But I meant even taking grade cutoffs into account: to take LA, for example, many firms will look at the top 1/3 from UCLA and but require roughly top 1/3 from Georgetown or Northwestern as well. For more competitive firms, its maybe the top handful of students at UCLA and top 5% (which is a handful) at a lower T14.

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:12 pm

PrezRand wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:T14 is not a universal fixture in every market. In southern California, for example, UCLA is regarded as a top school comparable to T14s like Georgetown and Northwestern. The same goes with respect to Vanderbilt for some southern markets.

Texas has the same prestige too right?

I guess not? Jbags is saying UCLA is viewed as on par with Georgetown at some LA firms. I don't think this is necessarily the case with UT. I've heard from Georgetown grads at both TX HQ big law offices and satellites of national firms that said "I would have never got this job if I had gone to UT." These things can obviously be firm dependent but I think a T14er with ties will almost always have a leg up over a similarly situated UT bro. Or at least that's what I've heard/seen based on my limited experience.

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby poptart123 » Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:17 pm

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Last edited by poptart123 on Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby BigZuck » Tue Dec 06, 2016 2:21 pm

poptart123 wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
PrezRand wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:T14 is not a universal fixture in every market. In southern California, for example, UCLA is regarded as a top school comparable to T14s like Georgetown and Northwestern. The same goes with respect to Vanderbilt for some southern markets.

Texas has the same prestige too right?

I guess not? Jbags is saying UCLA is viewed as on par with Georgetown at some LA firms. I don't think this is necessarily the case with UT. I've heard from Georgetown grads at both TX HQ big law offices and satellites of national firms that said "I would have never got this job if I had gone to UT." These things can obviously be firm dependent but I think a T14er with ties will almost always have a leg up over a similarly situated UT bro. Or at least that's what I've heard/seen based on my limited experience.


In my admissions interview with a big law GULC alum the other day, he told me UT grads are great, but they are a dime a dozen compared to GULC grads in Texas, with GULC grads being at least just as great. But he was probably trying to sell the school to me, though.

Yeah

Come to think of it though, one of the GULC grads who told me what he did did so at a pre- law school recruiting thing



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