Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

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Rogah

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Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby Rogah » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:17 am

I've seen a lot of references to T14 schools, which I assume means those ranked 14th or better in the U.S. News & Report rankings. Why?

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Thelaw23

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby Thelaw23 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:27 am

Prestige, bruh

Rogah

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby Rogah » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:28 am

Thelaw23 wrote:Prestige, bruh

Yah, but why exactly 14?

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lymenheimer

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby lymenheimer » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:32 am

Rogah wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:Prestige, bruh

Yah, but why exactly 14?

Google bruh. Its a historical thing.

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guynourmin

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby guynourmin » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:35 am


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Thelaw23

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby Thelaw23 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:35 am


Rogah

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby Rogah » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:49 am

For anyone else with the same question: the top 14 have remained approximately* the same set of schools for the past 27 years.

*E.g., Texas moved up to tie with Georgetown as #14 in 2012.

goldenbear2020

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby goldenbear2020 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:17 pm

In recent years, there's been some mention of T13 on TLS, due to GULC's lagging behind the rest of the T14 in biglaw/fed clerkship placement.

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby NUDad » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:27 pm

Why are there 14 schools in the Big Ten? ... and 10 schools in the Big 12?

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PrezRand

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby PrezRand » Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:42 pm

NUDad wrote:Why are there 14 schools in the Big Ten? ... and 10 schools in the Big 12?

Lmao

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nealric

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby nealric » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:14 pm

Because it's a relatively stable grouping. The T14 have been ranked somewhere within the T14 for decades now. If you use 13 or 15, there is some ambiguity as to which schools you are talking about.

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Thelaw23

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby Thelaw23 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:54 pm

It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, though. The rankings are partially based on employment and how judges/lawyers/firms look at each school. As the top 14 is considered prestigious, firms/judges are going to continue hiring people from those schools. Due to this, it's hard for any of those schools to really substantially drop in rankings.

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guynourmin

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby guynourmin » Mon Oct 24, 2016 4:40 pm

Thelaw23 wrote:It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, though. The rankings are partially based on employment and how judges/lawyers/firms look at each school. As the top 14 is considered prestigious, firms/judges are going to continue hiring people from those schools. Due to this, it's hard for any of those schools to really substantially drop in rankings.


It's a little more than that, though - GULC doesn't have better employment numbers than UCLA/Vandy/Texas. What it has is national placement - Texas grads stay in Texas (73%), UCLA grads stay in Cali (80%). Vandy is obviously different because it doesn't have as natural a feeder market as the other two, so I won't play with it right now, but suffice it to say we are all pretty comfortable calling it a bigger name in the south. GULC lands a third of its grads in DC (which is a notoriously difficult market), while placing a quarter in NYC, 8% in Cali, etc.


(all numbers from LST)

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Thelaw23

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby Thelaw23 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 7:38 am

guybourdin wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, though. The rankings are partially based on employment and how judges/lawyers/firms look at each school. As the top 14 is considered prestigious, firms/judges are going to continue hiring people from those schools. Due to this, it's hard for any of those schools to really substantially drop in rankings.


It's a little more than that, though - GULC doesn't have better employment numbers than UCLA/Vandy/Texas. What it has is national placement - Texas grads stay in Texas (73%), UCLA grads stay in Cali (80%). Vandy is obviously different because it doesn't have as natural a feeder market as the other two, so I won't play with it right now, but suffice it to say we are all pretty comfortable calling it a bigger name in the south. GULC lands a third of its grads in DC (which is a notoriously difficult market), while placing a quarter in NYC, 8% in Cali, etc.


(all numbers from LST)


Yeah, I get what you're saying.

One could *almost* say that after the T14, rankings only matter when compared regionally.

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Toni V

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby Toni V » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:19 am

I originally heard that the USNWR top 14 ranked schools have been comprised of the same schools for a couple decades, thus the T14. Urban legend?

(One year there was a tie for #14)

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby goldenbear2020 » Tue Oct 25, 2016 11:44 am

The T14 are the only schools that have ever received a top 10 USNWR ranking.

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Barack O'Drama

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby Barack O'Drama » Tue Oct 25, 2016 12:35 pm

Thelaw23 wrote:Prestige, bruh


Hahh! Yes! :lol:
Last edited by Barack O'Drama on Fri Jan 26, 2018 7:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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lymenheimer

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby lymenheimer » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:06 pm

Toni V wrote:I originally heard that the USNWR top 14 ranked schools have been comprised of the same schools for a couple decades, thus the T14. Urban legend?

(One year there was a tie for #14)

You havent read the thread, have you?

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ArtistOfManliness

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:28 pm

lymenheimer wrote:
Toni V wrote:I originally heard that the USNWR top 14 ranked schools have been comprised of the same schools for a couple decades, thus the T14. Urban legend?

(One year there was a tie for #14)

You havent read the thread, have you?


Why read when you can speculate?

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guynourmin

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby guynourmin » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:37 pm

ArtistOfManliness wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:
Toni V wrote:I originally heard that the USNWR top 14 ranked schools have been comprised of the same schools for a couple decades, thus the T14. Urban legend?

(One year there was a tie for #14)

You havent read the thread, have you?


Why read when you can speculate?


Big picture, though, we'll be doing so much reading in law school it makes sense to do as little as possible now, right? You know, to save up what we can in that regard. I get it.

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ArtistOfManliness

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby ArtistOfManliness » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:47 pm

guybourdin wrote:
ArtistOfManliness wrote:
lymenheimer wrote:
Toni V wrote:I originally heard that the USNWR top 14 ranked schools have been comprised of the same schools for a couple decades, thus the T14. Urban legend?

(One year there was a tie for #14)

You havent read the thread, have you?


Why read when you can speculate?


Big picture, though, we'll be doing so much reading in law school it makes sense to do as little as possible now, right? You know, to save up what we can in that regard. I get it.


Yeah. And the Cubs shouldn't have done batting practice yesterday because they'll have to bat during the game tonight. Guess I should go bet on the Indians.

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nealric

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby nealric » Tue Oct 25, 2016 1:55 pm

Thelaw23 wrote:It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, though. The rankings are partially based on employment and how judges/lawyers/firms look at each school. As the top 14 is considered prestigious, firms/judges are going to continue hiring people from those schools. Due to this, it's hard for any of those schools to really substantially drop in rankings.


The T14 would still exist even if all rankings vanished from the face of the earth. The top schools were still regarded as such even before magazines started making silly lists. That's just the nature of reputation for things like universities. It's very hard for a new school to break into the top echelons because there's only so much mental space in the category of "good schools". Even where schools have managed to game their way into high rankings (more common on the undergrad side), they often haven't managed to actually secure the same prestige as similarly ranked schools - WUSTL comes to mind on the undergrad front.

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jbagelboy

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby jbagelboy » Sun Nov 27, 2016 5:46 pm

T14 is not a universal fixture in every market. In southern California, for example, UCLA is regarded as a top school comparable to T14s like Georgetown and Northwestern. The same goes with respect to Vanderbilt for some southern markets.

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby curry1 » Sun Nov 27, 2016 6:05 pm

nealric wrote:
Thelaw23 wrote:It's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy, though. The rankings are partially based on employment and how judges/lawyers/firms look at each school. As the top 14 is considered prestigious, firms/judges are going to continue hiring people from those schools. Due to this, it's hard for any of those schools to really substantially drop in rankings.


The T14 would still exist even if all rankings vanished from the face of the earth. The top schools were still regarded as such even before magazines started making silly lists. That's just the nature of reputation for things like universities. It's very hard for a new school to break into the top echelons because there's only so much mental space in the category of "good schools". Even where schools have managed to game their way into high rankings (more common on the undergrad side), they often haven't managed to actually secure the same prestige as similarly ranked schools - WUSTL comes to mind on the undergrad front.


Completely right. At the undergrad level, USC/GWU etc. are notorious examples, UChicago to a certain extent as well, no one really thinks of Chicago as good of an overall school as Stanford, Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc.

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PrezRand

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Re: Why T14 rather than T13 or T15?

Postby PrezRand » Sun Nov 27, 2016 9:24 pm

jbagelboy wrote:T14 is not a universal fixture in every market. In southern California, for example, UCLA is regarded as a top school comparable to T14s like Georgetown and Northwestern. The same goes with respect to Vanderbilt for some southern markets.

Texas has the same prestige too right?



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