GULC for Government Work

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Nuhopeful2017

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GULC for Government Work

Postby Nuhopeful2017 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:46 pm

Hello,

Long term I would really love to work for the fed. gov. in some capacity. I'm sure I can tough out 3-5 years in biglaw but I just don't see myself being able to hack it long term. The type of work and work life balance that comes with fed. work appeals to me quite a bit more than corporate/firm work. I have a 3.43/172 gpa. My plan thus far has been to ed to NU (I'm fairly risk averse when it comes to debt and that would easily be the best school/price combo I could hope for), however, NU places most of their students into the type of work that I would rather avoid if possible.

GULC seems to do a fantastic job of placing its grads into the type of work I would like to do but they have a reputation for being stingy with aid money and my lsat/gpa are nothing special. Staring down 250k+ debt with GULC's unemployment/underemployment score is a very scary thought. I also believe I would have an outside shot at Michigan (which would essentially leave me in the same place but with a somewhat better employment score). I could also ed to GW (I believe that they have a full scholly for ed admits and their gov. placement is on par with GULC's- although their biglaw/overall employment stats are pretty scary).

If I could successfully ed to NU, graduate, maybe clerk for a year, do 2-5 yrs in biglaw (and save up some fuck you money) then go to work for the gov. that wouldn't be too bad at all in my opinion. Even if the work is as a public defender pulling in 42k in a suburban/rural area I think I would be pretty happy with that (I would love to be a trial lawyer/work in criminal law plus I've heard that the hours for many pds are pretty good- like 7-3 which would allow me to be home with my family and hopefully kids) but all of this is very much in the future and the future is very much unknowable.

Would it make more sense to go the risk averse route to a school with a decent big gov. placement for cheap (GW), better big gov. placement with six figure loans (I know about lrap/PAYE but there's always a chance I won't land a gov. job) or try to ed NU and see what's possible rd if eding NU doesn't pan out (incredibly likely).

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BoobGoddess

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby BoobGoddess » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:56 pm

Some things to think about... if you took out $250K in loans to go to GULC, would you take a job that paid $30K per year? How many years would it take to pay off that loan, while interest accrues? How would you pay for rent after taxes (federal, state, city, etc)?

Nuhopeful2017

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby Nuhopeful2017 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 11:03 pm

BoobGoddess wrote:Some things to think about... if you took out $250K in loans to go to GULC, would you take a job that paid $30K per year? How many years would it take to pay off that loan, while interest accrues? How would you pay for rent after taxes (federal, state, city, etc)?



IBR/PAYE/LRAP Would be the only feasible way to work the debt (which is one of the things that gives me most hesitation- if I can't find a job working for the gov./non-profit as a lawyer I might have to find work as a teacher/police officer- basically PAYE eligible so I could discharge my loan in 10 yrs without a tax bomb. And that of course would effectively crater my chances of ever working as a lawyer meaning that I've basically wasted 3 years of my life and however many tens of thousands I do end up paying back).

As for paying rent I've managed to live on under 1k a month in a city with a relatively high cost of living (Seattle) for several years. I can make do with public transportation/renting rooms out of a shared house/buying and preparing food in bulk etc. but it's not something I would like to do forever and if I find myself living outside of a city center I'll need a car (gas+ins.+purchase price+maintenance) and being able to rent a single room may not be an option (although renting/real estate should be cheaper in general).

To add a wrinkle to that I have a girlfriend who may be moving with me for law school and we may end up getting married. Her parents are well off but not wealthy- they will be paying for her schooling out of pocket. If we were to get married that may have some negative financial implications for IBR (if I'm recalling correctly).

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nealric

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby nealric » Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:51 am

Nuhopeful2017 wrote:Hello,

Long term I would really love to work for the fed. gov. in some capacity. I'm sure I can tough out 3-5 years in biglaw but I just don't see myself being able to hack it long term. The type of work and work life balance that comes with fed. work appeals to me quite a bit more than corporate/firm work. I have a 3.43/172 gpa. My plan thus far has been to ed to NU (I'm fairly risk averse when it comes to debt and that would easily be the best school/price combo I could hope for), however, NU places most of their students into the type of work that I would rather avoid if possible.

GULC seems to do a fantastic job of placing its grads into the type of work I would like to do but they have a reputation for being stingy with aid money and my lsat/gpa are nothing special. Staring down 250k+ debt with GULC's unemployment/underemployment score is a very scary thought. I also believe I would have an outside shot at Michigan (which would essentially leave me in the same place but with a somewhat better employment score). I could also ed to GW (I believe that they have a full scholly for ed admits and their gov. placement is on par with GULC's- although their biglaw/overall employment stats are pretty scary).

If I could successfully ed to NU, graduate, maybe clerk for a year, do 2-5 yrs in biglaw (and save up some fuck you money) then go to work for the gov. that wouldn't be too bad at all in my opinion. Even if the work is as a public defender pulling in 42k in a suburban/rural area I think I would be pretty happy with that (I would love to be a trial lawyer/work in criminal law plus I've heard that the hours for many pds are pretty good- like 7-3 which would allow me to be home with my family and hopefully kids) but all of this is very much in the future and the future is very much unknowable.

Would it make more sense to go the risk averse route to a school with a decent big gov. placement for cheap (GW), better big gov. placement with six figure loans (I know about lrap/PAYE but there's always a chance I won't land a gov. job) or try to ed NU and see what's possible rd if eding NU doesn't pan out (incredibly likely).


I went to GULC (graduated 6 years ago, but I suppose still somewhat relevant).

If your primary goal is federal government, I think it's one of the best, if for no other reason that location allows you to meet a lot of government workers. It may not be so obvious, but in many ways the federal government is a lot like the private sector- who you know can make a big difference. The debt should be much less of a big deal if you want a government job, as you will likely find something that qualifies for loan forgiveness.

As for PD office, I would advise that if you take it seriously, it's probably not the cushy 9-5 you imagine. People's freedom literally depends on the work you do, and you are almost certainly going to be overloaded with work. You can get away with doing a 9-5 (and there are people who do once they get jaded and cynical), but most people who care (and most newbies) are going to be putting in a lot more hours than that. Also consider whether you can stand up to the emotional drain that is watching your clients go through the meat grinder day-in-day-out.

For what it's worth Boobgoddess seems to be an anti-GULC troll based on the poster's other comments around here. There are certainly people for whom GULC is probably not a great decision (biglaw or bust at full sticker), but even though I graduated at the height of the recession, almost everyone I know eventually ended up in a position that works well for them, even though a few took a couple of years to settle into something. I was fortunate enough to get a biglaw job right off the bat. That said, even with your relatively low GPA, with a 172, I think you will get in with money at a higher ranked school.

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby TLSModBot » Fri Jul 29, 2016 9:55 am

I'm not reading these ridiculously long screeds, but in short don't go to GULC if you can get into a better school, don't pay sticker at GULC ever, and GULC is not fantastic at literally anything more than the rest of the T13

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nealric

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby nealric » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:13 am

Capitol_Idea wrote:I'm not reading these ridiculously long screeds, but in short don't go to GULC if you can get into a better school, don't pay sticker at GULC ever, and GULC is not fantastic at literally anything more than the rest of the T13


It's better for federal government jobs than some of the schools slightly ahead of it for rankings, if only by virtue of the fact that you are local. But I certainly wouldn't advise someone to pay sticker with the plan of paying it off with private sector work. And I agree if you get into better ranked schools, you should go absent significantly more money from GULC.

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Teoeo

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby Teoeo » Fri Jul 29, 2016 11:20 am

Does GULC still have an absurdly good LRAP?

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby Hand » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:27 pm

Teoeo wrote:Does GULC still have an absurdly good LRAP?

Did it ever?

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby Nebby » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:33 pm

Teoeo wrote:Does GULC still have an absurdly good LRAP?

If you mean absurdly good as in does one exist? Yes. If you mean absurdly good as in is it better than literally any other LRAP in the T14? No.

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby Nebby » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:34 pm

BoobGoddess wrote:Some things to think about... if you took out $250K in loans to go to GULC, would you take a job that paid $30K per year? How many years would it take to pay off that loan, while interest accrues? How would you pay for rent after taxes (federal, state, city, etc)?

0Ls shouldn't comment on questions you know nothing about

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby Nebby » Fri Jul 29, 2016 12:40 pm

Nuhopeful2017 wrote:Hello,

Long term I would really love to work for the fed. gov. in some capacity. I'm sure I can tough out 3-5 years in biglaw but I just don't see myself being able to hack it long term. The type of work and work life balance that comes with fed. work appeals to me quite a bit more than corporate/firm work. I have a 3.43/172 gpa. My plan thus far has been to ed to NU (I'm fairly risk averse when it comes to debt and that would easily be the best school/price combo I could hope for), however, NU places most of their students into the type of work that I would rather avoid if possible.

GULC seems to do a fantastic job of placing its grads into the type of work I would like to do but they have a reputation for being stingy with aid money and my lsat/gpa are nothing special. Staring down 250k+ debt with GULC's unemployment/underemployment score is a very scary thought. I also believe I would have an outside shot at Michigan (which would essentially leave me in the same place but with a somewhat better employment score). I could also ed to GW (I believe that they have a full scholly for ed admits and their gov. placement is on par with GULC's- although their biglaw/overall employment stats are pretty scary).

If I could successfully ed to NU, graduate, maybe clerk for a year, do 2-5 yrs in biglaw (and save up some fuck you money) then go to work for the gov. that wouldn't be too bad at all in my opinion. Even if the work is as a public defender pulling in 42k in a suburban/rural area I think I would be pretty happy with that (I would love to be a trial lawyer/work in criminal law plus I've heard that the hours for many pds are pretty good- like 7-3 which would allow me to be home with my family and hopefully kids) but all of this is very much in the future and the future is very much unknowable.

Would it make more sense to go the risk averse route to a school with a decent big gov. placement for cheap (GW), better big gov. placement with six figure loans (I know about lrap/PAYE but there's always a chance I won't land a gov. job) or try to ed NU and see what's possible rd if eding NU doesn't pan out (incredibly likely).

Please. Please. Please do not ED NU. Apply to all of the T14 except Yale and Stanford. Apply in October and try to negotiate good scholarship offers. If you can get into NYU or CLS, both schools will provide you with great opportunities. I can only speak to CLS, but GULC loses its geographic advantage when you factor in programs such as the CLS DC externship program. I spent two summers and a semester in DC while in law school. If GULC gives you a full ride and no one else does, only then is it worth it imo. You're in a great position--looking forward to seeing how your cycle goes.

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby rationalhound » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:18 pm

Nebby wrote:Please. Please. Please do not ED NU. Apply to all of the T14 except Yale and Stanford. Apply in October and try to negotiate good scholarship offers. If you can get into NYU or CLS, both schools will provide you with great opportunities. I can only speak to CLS, but GULC loses its geographic advantage when you factor in programs such as the CLS DC externship program. I spent two summers and a semester in DC while in law school. If GULC gives you a full ride and no one else does, only then is it worth it imo. You're in a great position--looking forward to seeing how your cycle goes.


What's wrong with going ED at NU? 3.4x/172 has a less than great chance to get in, but it's not outside the ream of possibility.

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby Nebby » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:19 pm

rationalhound wrote:
Nebby wrote:Please. Please. Please do not ED NU. Apply to all of the T14 except Yale and Stanford. Apply in October and try to negotiate good scholarship offers. If you can get into NYU or CLS, both schools will provide you with great opportunities. I can only speak to CLS, but GULC loses its geographic advantage when you factor in programs such as the CLS DC externship program. I spent two summers and a semester in DC while in law school. If GULC gives you a full ride and no one else does, only then is it worth it imo. You're in a great position--looking forward to seeing how your cycle goes.


What's wrong with going ED at NU? 3.4x/172 has a less than great chance to get in, but it's not outside the ream of possibility.

Because it's binding and OP could get better offers elsewhere. Absolutely no reason to ED

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby GreenEggs » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:20 pm

Nebby wrote:
rationalhound wrote:
Nebby wrote:Please. Please. Please do not ED NU. Apply to all of the T14 except Yale and Stanford. Apply in October and try to negotiate good scholarship offers. If you can get into NYU or CLS, both schools will provide you with great opportunities. I can only speak to CLS, but GULC loses its geographic advantage when you factor in programs such as the CLS DC externship program. I spent two summers and a semester in DC while in law school. If GULC gives you a full ride and no one else does, only then is it worth it imo. You're in a great position--looking forward to seeing how your cycle goes.


What's wrong with going ED at NU? 3.4x/172 has a less than great chance to get in, but it's not outside the ream of possibility.

Because it's binding and OP could get better offers elsewhere. Absolutely no reason to ED


Does NU not have the 150k scholarship for EDs anymore?
Last edited by GreenEggs on Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby Nebby » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:21 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:
Nebby wrote:
rationalhound wrote:
Nebby wrote:Please. Please. Please do not ED NU. Apply to all of the T14 except Yale and Stanford. Apply in October and try to negotiate good scholarship offers. If you can get into NYU or CLS, both schools will provide you with great opportunities. I can only speak to CLS, but GULC loses its geographic advantage when you factor in programs such as the CLS DC externship program. I spent two summers and a semester in DC while in law school. If GULC gives you a full ride and no one else does, only then is it worth it imo. You're in a great position--looking forward to seeing how your cycle goes.


What's wrong with going ED at NU? 3.4x/172 has a less than great chance to get in, but it's not outside the ream of possibility.

Because it's binding and OP could get better offers elsewhere. Absolutely no reason to ED


Does NU not have the 150k scholarship for EDs anymore?

I have no idea

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby GreenEggs » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:23 pm

Nebby wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
Nebby wrote:
rationalhound wrote:
Nebby wrote:Please. Please. Please do not ED NU. Apply to all of the T14 except Yale and Stanford. Apply in October and try to negotiate good scholarship offers. If you can get into NYU or CLS, both schools will provide you with great opportunities. I can only speak to CLS, but GULC loses its geographic advantage when you factor in programs such as the CLS DC externship program. I spent two summers and a semester in DC while in law school. If GULC gives you a full ride and no one else does, only then is it worth it imo. You're in a great position--looking forward to seeing how your cycle goes.


What's wrong with going ED at NU? 3.4x/172 has a less than great chance to get in, but it's not outside the ream of possibility.

Because it's binding and OP could get better offers elsewhere. Absolutely no reason to ED


Does NU not have the 150k scholarship for EDs anymore?

I have no idea


I mean that's a pretty compelling reason to ED
Last edited by GreenEggs on Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby rationalhound » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:31 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:
Nebby wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
Nebby wrote:Because it's binding and OP could get better offers elsewhere. Absolutely no reason to ED


Does NU not have the 150k scholarship for EDs anymore?

I have no idea


I mean that's a pretty compelling reason to ED


The early decision page on NU's site hasn't been updated for 2017/18 yet. Assuming nothing changes, getting lucky at EDing NU is pretty much the best (only?)way to get a full ride to a t14 if you don't have stratospheric numbers.

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby Nebby » Fri Jul 29, 2016 1:35 pm

rationalhound wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
Nebby wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
Nebby wrote:Because it's binding and OP could get better offers elsewhere. Absolutely no reason to ED


Does NU not have the 150k scholarship for EDs anymore?

I have no idea


I mean that's a pretty compelling reason to ED


The early decision page on NU's site hasn't been updated for 2017/18 yet. Assuming nothing changes, getting lucky at EDing NU is pretty much the best (only?)way to get a full ride to a t14 if you don't have stratospheric numbers.

Yes. I redact my post. NU with 150k would be a solid choice and better than GULC. NU has a government externship program in the Chicago area

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Re: GULC for Government Work

Postby twenty » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:26 pm

I wouldn't pick GULC for LRAP, because you're going to jump over the cap after about 2 years of federal service, sometimes less. The majority of agency attorneys start off at GS-11 (sometimes 12), and then go up in pay grade every year until GS-14 (or sometimes 15). Basically, GULC's LRAP might save you 5-7k or so, but it's not going to be that much better than straight IBR -> PSLF.

The location is great, though. Being able to easily volunteer/work at federal agency headquarters during the school year is a massive advantage. One of my friends who went to GULC received multiple federal offers as a 3L, and this was largely because he was able to work both summers for federal agencies and during the school year, volunteer at other agencies where classes permitted.



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