UF, FSU, or Miami - Real Estate/Land Use/Environmental Law in Miami

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ZEROL27

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UF, FSU, or Miami - Real Estate/Land Use/Environmental Law in Miami

Postby ZEROL27 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:18 pm

The title pretty much sums it up. I intend to take my undergraduate business degree to the next level and help aid in the mindful expansion of humanity. I would like to work in transactional law (or maybe litigation) for a significant firm in South Florida with a focus on real estate/land use/environmental law. I would also like a shot at a clerkship that would deal with (at least some) cases in this spectrum of the law. I realize that they're different types of practice, but I am an 0L with an open mind so I believe I have a little bit of time to pick a focus.

2.95 GPA / 165 LSAT / 27 YEARS OLD. I am below the GPA median and above the LSAT median at UF, FSU, and Miami. I am originally from Florida, but I have been working out of state for the past two years because of my fiancee's job (so I believe I will be able to make a decent case for in-state tuition).

Please contribute more to the conversation than "retake" and I will be thankful for your time.

I'd like to know more about how the schools rank in terms of regional prestige and academic quality with regard real estate, land use, and/or environmental law.

I also want to add that I went to one of the state schools for undergrad, and I have family in Miami that would provide no-cost housing should I choose to attend UM.

Thanks for reading!

lavarman84

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Re: UF, FSU, or Miami - Real Estate/Land Use/Environmental Law in Miami

Postby lavarman84 » Thu Jul 28, 2016 10:56 pm

FSU offers the strongest government connections and the best proximity for government jobs. UF offers you the strongest alumni network and the most market flexibility but the worst proximity to jobs. Miami offers you the best proximity to South Florida jobs and a strong alumni network in Miami but not a lot of market flexibility throughout the state.

Personally, I'd eliminate FSU unless you want to start out in the government. Which will actually be beneficial for you if you want to do land use or environmental. But assuming you want a firm, UF or Miami are better options. From there, UF is a better option than Miami but it will depend on what scholarships you can get from each. Miami is a lot more expensive than UF, especially if you get in-state tuition at UF.

As for the clerkship, I'm not really sure how you can achieve that. Unless you're working for a specialized court (like Bankruptcy or Federal Claims), you handle whatever cases you're given. You won't get any real control over that.

I can say that UF has a lot of resources for real estate, land use, and environmental. However, those jobs are also very competitive.(although, there are a lot of real estate jobs available relative to the others) Getting a good job practicing mainly land use or environmental law out of LS is extremely difficult. Like I said earlier, you stand a better chance at becoming a land use lawyer in private practice if you work for the government first. It's such a specialized area, and there aren't a ton of job openings.

Wherever you end, you'll need to do a lot of networking early on. Find alumni lawyers who do what you want to do and try to connect with them. Real estate is attainable from UF or Miami. Especially if you do well. Land use and environmental will be tougher. You'll definitely want to reach out to lawyers who practice in those areas and build a network.

I also would recommend you not limit yourself to one market. Keep your options open.

Also, a retake wouldn't hurt. :wink:

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pancakes3

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Re: UF, FSU, or Miami - Real Estate/Land Use/Environmental Law in Miami

Postby pancakes3 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 7:23 am

ZEROL27 wrote:I am an 0L with an open mind


doesn't sound like it

ZEROL27

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Re: UF, FSU, or Miami - Real Estate/Land Use/Environmental Law in Miami

Postby ZEROL27 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:07 am

@ lawman84...

Thank you for your detailed response. I greatly appreciate it. Did you study / practice in Florida?

With regard to your suggestion that I keep my market options open - that's already in the plan. I've written a more detailed post in the past asking about how my numbers line up with a larger selection of schools / legal markets. So, it was a broad post with broad ambitions and it was more about a numbers game with regard to where I could get in with a poor UGPA.

This post was a bit more specialized in scope; I was hoping to learn more about the offerings of only three schools. Again - thanks for providing some insight!

ZEROL27

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Re: UF, FSU, or Miami - Real Estate/Land Use/Environmental Law in Miami

Postby ZEROL27 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:18 am

pancakes3 wrote:
ZEROL27 wrote:I am an 0L with an open mind


doesn't sound like it


I meant to communicate that I understand real estate law, land use law, and envirnomental law to be three separate areas of practice that are usually connected in some way. Therefore, I was hoping to gain some insight into the academic quality of these three schools in these three areas because that's the type of law I'm drawn to.

I have an open mind in that I'd like to learn about all three while in law school, and pick one (or none - maybe I'll hate them all and I'll choose an area of practice that reveals itself to me at a later time).

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pancakes3

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Re: UF, FSU, or Miami - Real Estate/Land Use/Environmental Law in Miami

Postby pancakes3 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:47 am

the academic quality is equal across these three schools (and really all schools). there isn't a secret set of laws that you'll learn at Yale that you won't be able to access in other schools. the difference between a "good" school and a "bad" school isn't about the substance of what you learn but employment prospects*.

this may seem arbitrary because it is. the problem is there are too many JDs and not enough jobs - and even if you are "employable" how does a "good" (read: higher paying) employer justify one candidate over another? the criteria are: grades, "prestige" of school, and ties.

so in choosing a school, you're not looking for the one that will educate you the "best" but rather the school that presents you the best employment outcomes. and keeping that in mind, even the best schools in the nation won't guarantee you a spot in this one specific Miami firm that you're interested in. There are just too many variables between where you are now and when you're employable that it's a meaningless goal.

employment + debt servicing, which begs the question of what LSAT score you need... these are the considerations that you should be considering.

THAT's what people are trying to say when they say "retake"


*there is a subtle difference in top schools geared towards teaching how to think critically vs lower tiered schools that just cram students full of black letter law so they pass the bar, but in the end everyone needs on-the-job training as to how to practice law anyway so i find the mentality of "top tier schools teach critical thinking better" a bit overblown. valid, but overblown.

lavarman84

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Re: UF, FSU, or Miami - Real Estate/Land Use/Environmental Law in Miami

Postby lavarman84 » Fri Jul 29, 2016 5:39 pm

pancakes3 wrote:the academic quality is equal across these three schools (and really all schools). there isn't a secret set of laws that you'll learn at Yale that you won't be able to access in other schools. the difference between a "good" school and a "bad" school isn't about the substance of what you learn but employment prospects*.

this may seem arbitrary because it is. the problem is there are too many JDs and not enough jobs - and even if you are "employable" how does a "good" (read: higher paying) employer justify one candidate over another? the criteria are: grades, "prestige" of school, and ties.

so in choosing a school, you're not looking for the one that will educate you the "best" but rather the school that presents you the best employment outcomes. and keeping that in mind, even the best schools in the nation won't guarantee you a spot in this one specific Miami firm that you're interested in. There are just too many variables between where you are now and when you're employable that it's a meaningless goal.

employment + debt servicing, which begs the question of what LSAT score you need... these are the considerations that you should be considering.

THAT's what people are trying to say when they say "retake"


*there is a subtle difference in top schools geared towards teaching how to think critically vs lower tiered schools that just cram students full of black letter law so they pass the bar, but in the end everyone needs on-the-job training as to how to practice law anyway so i find the mentality of "top tier schools teach critical thinking better" a bit overblown. valid, but overblown.


That's not quite true. There are definitely differences between schools when you're looking for specific programs and offerings. However, those programs and offerings aren't typically valuable in regards to getting you a job. Your general point is accurate. The better school will give you a better chance at landing a good job. That's ultimately why you go to law school. But some schools definitely offer more than others in terms of specific areas you can focus your education on.

ZEROL27 wrote:@ lawman84...

Thank you for your detailed response. I greatly appreciate it. Did you study / practice in Florida?

With regard to your suggestion that I keep my market options open - that's already in the plan. I've written a more detailed post in the past asking about how my numbers line up with a larger selection of schools / legal markets. So, it was a broad post with broad ambitions and it was more about a numbers game with regard to where I could get in with a poor UGPA.

This post was a bit more specialized in scope; I was hoping to learn more about the offerings of only three schools. Again - thanks for providing some insight!


Yes.

wolfintally

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Re: UF, FSU, or Miami - Real Estate/Land Use/Environmental Law in Miami

Postby wolfintally » Wed Aug 10, 2016 1:23 pm

Go to FSU or UF. Do not go to Miami. Work your a$$ off to summer clerk at Hopping, Green and Sams, Lewis Longman and Walker, Greenberg, or Gray Robinson, or get a federal clerkship. Make sure you are on law review or some kind of journal.



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