Schools around Top ~100ish with Deep Pockets

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bmathers

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Re: Schools around Top ~100ish with Deep Pockets

Postby bmathers » Thu Aug 04, 2016 1:57 pm

I guess my "target score" since I even knew what was on the LSAT was a 160. I have been scoring at, or slightly above, that for awhile now and it's partly why I just want to get my retake over with. Was I perhaps short-changing myself with a goal of a 160? I figured that would be a score that would get me into the majority of schools, minus the top 30 (maybe 40) - but maybe I should be trying for better than that?

Who knows. I have a few more weeks to decide if I want to go through with September, or hold off until December. My only fear is I still score in the same ballpark (160-162) on the December test and then have the same numbers, but just with later applications. I guess this just all goes to show - Do not rush your first take. I took my 1st take with less than a month of prep and I really wish I would have held off on that one (granted, my final PT a week before the test was a 162, so I thought that I was on track... and then I got a 153 on the LSAT).

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pancakes3

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Re: Schools around Top ~100ish with Deep Pockets

Postby pancakes3 » Thu Aug 04, 2016 2:31 pm

it's a red flag that OP has been around conventional TLS wisdom but still struggles to pick up the gestalt of the "unsolicited" advice...

hint:

[+] Spoiler
it's not T14 or bust. it's get the best LSAT you can with the grades you have so you don't fuck your life over or bust.


also, OP's benchmarks are nominal, and misguided.

80th percentile on the LSAT, who gives a fuck? you're 30 already and sometimes you just have to act? that's irrational.

employment outcomes are employment outcomes. not everyone who takes the LSAT gets to be a lawyer. maybe not even 80% of people who take the LSAT get to be lawyers. maybe not even 90%. a japanese LLM student just told me their bar exam fails 90% of test takers. sorry you're 30 bro, but that doesn't make it any more ok for you to take on debt unnecessarily than it does a KJD. that's the big boy advice.

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bmathers

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Re: Schools around Top ~100ish with Deep Pockets

Postby bmathers » Thu Aug 04, 2016 8:53 pm

pancakes3 wrote:it's a red flag that OP has been around conventional TLS wisdom but still struggles to pick up the gestalt of the "unsolicited" advice...

hint:

[+] Spoiler
it's not T14 or bust. it's get the best LSAT you can with the grades you have so you don't fuck your life over or bust.


also, OP's benchmarks are nominal, and misguided.

80th percentile on the LSAT, who gives a fuck? you're 30 already and sometimes you just have to act? that's irrational.

employment outcomes are employment outcomes. not everyone who takes the LSAT gets to be a lawyer. maybe not even 80% of people who take the LSAT get to be lawyers. maybe not even 90%. a japanese LLM student just told me their bar exam fails 90% of test takers. sorry you're 30 bro, but that doesn't make it any more ok for you to take on debt unnecessarily than it does a KJD. that's the big boy advice.

Understood. However, that is disregarding what I said earlier. I can cover my COL. If I go on a full-ride, I will not have any debt to unnecessarily take on, FWIW

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pancakes3

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Re: Schools around Top ~100ish with Deep Pockets

Postby pancakes3 » Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:38 am

bmathers wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:it's a red flag that OP has been around conventional TLS wisdom but still struggles to pick up the gestalt of the "unsolicited" advice...

hint:

[+] Spoiler
it's not T14 or bust. it's get the best LSAT you can with the grades you have so you don't fuck your life over or bust.


also, OP's benchmarks are nominal, and misguided.

80th percentile on the LSAT, who gives a fuck? you're 30 already and sometimes you just have to act? that's irrational.

employment outcomes are employment outcomes. not everyone who takes the LSAT gets to be a lawyer. maybe not even 80% of people who take the LSAT get to be lawyers. maybe not even 90%. a japanese LLM student just told me their bar exam fails 90% of test takers. sorry you're 30 bro, but that doesn't make it any more ok for you to take on debt unnecessarily than it does a KJD. that's the big boy advice.

Understood. However, that is disregarding what I said earlier. I can cover my COL. If I go on a full-ride, I will not have any debt to unnecessarily take on, FWIW


It's not disregarding what you said earlier about your COL. You're implying that if you can get a full ride, anywhere - possibly to a school around a USNWR ranking of the top 100ish with deep pockets, TLS conventional wisdom doesn't apply to you.

What TLS is telling you with regards to that is:
1) If you get a full ride and live off your side hustle, you'll still face the same employment problems upon graduation.
2) Your scores now can be greatly improved. Even if you can attend *some* law school on a full ride, skipping the September test for the December test, and/or a full out retake in 2018 will allow you to attend an even better law school on a full ride. The endgame isn't just to graduate with a JD; do you want to be a lawyer?
3) The schools you've applied to are all over the place location-wise, which is probably borne of your desperation for immediate matriculation. You should take your future employment a bit more seriously. The grass is not greener on the other side of the JD pasture - especially with a non-portable T2 JD.

You might counter this by saying "well then I'll just grind it out until I find something and since I'm living off my side hustle, I'll be no worse for wear" in which case, that has also already been addressed: "instead of wasting 3 years of your life on a 50/50 chance at being a lawyer, you should just focus on growing your business."

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bmathers

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Re: Schools around Top ~100ish with Deep Pockets

Postby bmathers » Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:13 pm

pancakes3 wrote:
bmathers wrote:
pancakes3 wrote:it's a red flag that OP has been around conventional TLS wisdom but still struggles to pick up the gestalt of the "unsolicited" advice...

hint:

[+] Spoiler
it's not T14 or bust. it's get the best LSAT you can with the grades you have so you don't fuck your life over or bust.


also, OP's benchmarks are nominal, and misguided.

80th percentile on the LSAT, who gives a fuck? you're 30 already and sometimes you just have to act? that's irrational.

employment outcomes are employment outcomes. not everyone who takes the LSAT gets to be a lawyer. maybe not even 80% of people who take the LSAT get to be lawyers. maybe not even 90%. a japanese LLM student just told me their bar exam fails 90% of test takers. sorry you're 30 bro, but that doesn't make it any more ok for you to take on debt unnecessarily than it does a KJD. that's the big boy advice.

Understood. However, that is disregarding what I said earlier. I can cover my COL. If I go on a full-ride, I will not have any debt to unnecessarily take on, FWIW


It's not disregarding what you said earlier about your COL. You're implying that if you can get a full ride, anywhere - possibly to a school around a USNWR ranking of the top 100ish with deep pockets, TLS conventional wisdom doesn't apply to you.

What TLS is telling you with regards to that is:
1) If you get a full ride and live off your side hustle, you'll still face the same employment problems upon graduation.
2) Your scores now can be greatly improved. Even if you can attend *some* law school on a full ride, skipping the September test for the December test, and/or a full out retake in 2018 will allow you to attend an even better law school on a full ride. The endgame isn't just to graduate with a JD; do you want to be a lawyer?
3) The schools you've applied to are all over the place location-wise, which is probably borne of your desperation for immediate matriculation. You should take your future employment a bit more seriously. The grass is not greener on the other side of the JD pasture - especially with a non-portable T2 JD.

You might counter this by saying "well then I'll just grind it out until I find something and since I'm living off my side hustle, I'll be no worse for wear" in which case, that has also already been addressed: "instead of wasting 3 years of your life on a 50/50 chance at being a lawyer, you should just focus on growing your business."

Understood. Location-wise, it's because I really do not have a preferred region to live in (other than east coast, no further north than PA, or further south than maybe Georgia). I really don't see how the schools I am looking at are "all over the place." We have PA: Nova, Pitt, PSU, Drexel, Temple. MD: UM in Baltimore (very close drive to PA). NJ: Rutgers (ok placement in Philly) Georgia: GSU (Atlanta, I have 2 siblings in Atlanta, one who I would probably room with for GSU). Additionally, Wake Forest - my brother-in-law's brother is a practicing attorney in Atlanta, and is a Wake Law alum.

I don't see how that is all over the place. I am not a person who has thrown down any routes with any area. I've lived in 5 states and 2 countries, there really isn't a place where I "have to live" or "want to live," other than on the east coast in decent weather. I'll happily live where the job takes me. I have family ranging from Hawaii, to Montana, to PA, to South Carolina, to Atlanta, etc. We definitely are not contained to an area of the country

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bmathers

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Re: Schools around Top ~100ish with Deep Pockets

Postby bmathers » Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:24 pm

Wherever I end up going to, I'd be happy practicing in that school's state. I'm not going to apply in a state where I would not be happy living/practicing in.

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Re: Schools around Top ~100ish with Deep Pockets

Postby Floridian » Fri Oct 07, 2016 10:34 pm

My advice as a 0L who may ultimately become a never L is to recognize that smaller law firms can be as bad as large ones in terms of hours. First and foremost, small firms tend to pay considerably less than BigLaw or MidLaw firms. BigLaw is 180, MidLaw is a wide range from almost matching BigLaw to 60-70 at some shops in secondary or tertiary markets doing mostly lower to mid end insurance defense. These jobs account for a small number of the total jobs available, depending on defenitions of Big and MidLaw maybe one in five grads winds up in those firms. Those grads disproportionately come from tier 1 schools and even there its heavily weighted toward the T25 and T14. From a tier two school BigLaw and MidLaw aren't realistic options.

I recognize you're not interested in pursuing those roles, but they offer a great place to learn and look great on a resume. A fair number of MidLaw partners come from the ranks of former BigLaw associates. Small law firms generally face a number of challenges. First they deal mostly with small businesses and individuals. I know it may seem nicer than working for a faceless corporation, but the faceless corporation can generally afford your services. The sort of legal needs an individual or small business will require tends to be simpler and less lucrative.Consider whether DWI and misdemeanors are what you want to do or divorces, wills, T&E, insurance defense, immigration, simple business matters that's the bread and butter of the small practitioner. If you haven't already try talking to more small law lawyers, particularly recent grads. The salaries starting off can be terrible and don't necessarily go up dramatically. You may well start at 45-50 and work long hours with minimal training.

If you still wish to go I would try and figure out what market you want to be in. I would try and find one where the legal market is less saturated and where whatever institution you attend is the number one and preferably the only one in the market. The University of South Carolina comes to mind as having that sort of moat, not to mention that SC can be very parochial, although I cannot speak as to their generosity. Miami also comes to mind as it is the best school in South Florida (UF/FSU are better, but not in South Florida), but the market is more glutted and desirable, but the other local law schools are all ranked below 100.



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