Heavy (potential) splitter. Should I pursue WashU ED

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WiltyMIZ

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Heavy (potential) splitter. Should I pursue WashU ED

Postby WiltyMIZ » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:04 am

Hey y'all so as aforementioned, my UGPA is pretty ugly. That being said (and I don't have an official score so this is no guarantee) my practice LSATs generally go very well (I scored 170 on my most recent..damn logic games) , and with 4 months of prep and plenty of material to go through I don't think it's unreasonable for me to Aim for a point or two increase by then. I'm aiming for a 172-173 but since it's all speculative lets, for the sake of the question, say I do fairly well and nab a 170 score.

Anyways, this is leads me to WashU, and their very tempting ED program. After speaking with an admissions officer it sounds like the LSAT is pretty damn big and can forgive a low GPA. The same can not generally be said for most other schools in the t-20 (most of which I have slim to none chances at to begin with). Further, since I'm taking the December LSAT I'm already quite behind the admissions cycle further weakening most prospects.

Now I grew up in STL, and lived in the Midwest most of my life. Much of my friends/ family do as well so id be perfectly happy settling down in the area after school. And though biglaw would be nice, it's not a necessity for me as I'd be content with any private sector position after I graduate. I'm also quite worried about debt prospects that come with the bigger name schools. Even if I were to get into a GULC or NU I KNOW I wouldn't receive even close to the amount id get if I ED WashU.

So I guess I'm just wondering what the good people of TLS think about it? Should I zero in and apply ED for WUSTL or do you think it'd be in my better interest to keep options open? Thanks for the input.

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mukol

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Re: Heavy (potential) splitter. Should I pursue WashU ED

Postby mukol » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:35 am

WiltyMIZ wrote:Hey y'all so as aforementioned, my UGPA is pretty ugly. That being said (and I don't have an official score so this is no guarantee) my practice LSATs generally go very well (I scored 170 on my most recent..damn logic games) , and with 4 months of prep and plenty of material to go through I don't think it's unreasonable for me to Aim for a point or two increase by then. I'm aiming for a 172-173 but since it's all speculative lets, for the sake of the question, say I do fairly well and nab a 170 score.

Anyways, this is leads me to WashU, and their very tempting ED program. After speaking with an admissions officer it sounds like the LSAT is pretty damn big and can forgive a low GPA. The same can not generally be said for most other schools in the t-20 (most of which I have slim to none chances at to begin with). Further, since I'm taking the December LSAT I'm already quite behind the admissions cycle further weakening most prospects.

Now I grew up in STL, and lived in the Midwest most of my life. Much of my friends/ family do as well so id be perfectly happy settling down in the area after school. And though biglaw would be nice, it's not a necessity for me as I'd be content with any private sector position after I graduate. I'm also quite worried about debt prospects that come with the bigger name schools. Even if I were to get into a GULC or NU I KNOW I wouldn't receive even close to the amount id get if I ED WashU.

So I guess I'm just wondering what the good people of TLS think about it? Should I zero in and apply ED for WUSTL or do you think it'd be in my better interest to keep options open? Thanks for the input.


What is your gpa?

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jumbocolumbo

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Re: Heavy (potential) splitter. Should I pursue WashU ED

Postby jumbocolumbo » Wed Jul 27, 2016 10:39 am

I wouldn't ED.

Assuming you have a GPA above 3.0, you're still looking at $$$$ from WUSTL. You just lose all of your bargaining power for the cycle by applying ED. Sub-3.0 GPA, your cycle becomes a little harder to predict, but MyLSN indicates they're still handing out plenty of scholarship money in upper 2.xx with a 170 LSAT.

Ultimately I'd say if you want WUSTL, a 170+ LSAT will probably garner you some good $$$. It's just hard to say without a definitive GPA.

ETA: Tinker with MyLSN by plugging in your numbers and see how you like your chances.

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ChervonaKatya

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Re: Heavy (potential) splitter. Should I pursue WashU ED

Postby ChervonaKatya » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:08 am

Generally, I am skeptical of the value of ED at most schools. Northwestern has a great benefit, but I'm not sure it's worth it at other places you're looking at. Also, what are your feelings on debt? What are your feelings about waiting another cycle to apply?

Applying early has its benefits, for sure. Not sure of your GPA, but anecdotally, I was <<<25% GPA for every school I applied to and I had around where you're scoring right now on my LSAT with interesting, but not exceptional soft factors. I sent in all of my apps before Thanksgiving by regular decision and had three acceptances by early January. I ended up applying to 11 of the T-14 and had three acceptances, four rejections (two were very expected), and four wait lists (staying on one). Based on my experience and not knowing the specifics of your GPA, I would guess that ED at WashU isn't necessary for you to get in with some money if you score around where you anticipate to, but have everything ready to submit as soon as your scores come in. Apply broadly, try to get fee waivers (go to an LSAC Forum if you can), and if you don't like your outcome and can improve your score, retake the LSAT next Sept/Oct and reapply before Thanksgiving. Also, as others have recommended, tinker with MyLSN and the LSAC GPA/LSAT calculator to get an idea.

Feel free to PM me if you want to chat about my experience with specific schools! Good luck!

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cavalier1138

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Re: Heavy (potential) splitter. Should I pursue WashU ED

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:16 am

ChervonaKatya wrote:Generally, I am skeptical of the value of ED at most schools. Northwestern has a great benefit, but I'm not sure it's worth it at other places you're looking at.


In fairness to the OP, WashU has the same benefit as Northwestern (actually, slightly better in terms of pure money): full tuition scholarship guaranteed.

That said, WashU throws money at high LSAT scores, so unless the OP has a sub-3.0 GPA, there's no need to limit their choices by applying ED.

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ChervonaKatya

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Re: Heavy (potential) splitter. Should I pursue WashU ED

Postby ChervonaKatya » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:23 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
ChervonaKatya wrote:Generally, I am skeptical of the value of ED at most schools. Northwestern has a great benefit, but I'm not sure it's worth it at other places you're looking at.


In fairness to the OP, WashU has the same benefit as Northwestern (actually, slightly better in terms of pure money): full tuition scholarship guaranteed.

That said, WashU throws money at high LSAT scores, so unless the OP has a sub-3.0 GPA, there's no need to limit their choices by applying ED.


Thanks for clarification, cavalier! I didn't realize that. That would make ED much more attractive at WashU.

OP, do you have work experience at all? That is also something that can offset a low GPA at many schools. I was a tiny bit above 3.0, but have ~5 years work experience and I really think that helped a lot.

WiltyMIZ

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Re: Heavy (potential) splitter. Should I pursue WashU ED

Postby WiltyMIZ » Wed Jul 27, 2016 11:29 am

Wow thanks for the input guys. And to elaborate: my GPA is roughly 2.87. So definitely sub 3.0. it's on an upward trend, and I still have a semester to go and have A's in all 3 of my summer courses but ultimately it isn't going to get too much better.

And as far as debt goes, I fear it like the plague. Perhaps I've been reading too much of the negativity about legal prospects but nothing sounds sounds worse than having an $120,000-$200,000 JD with nothing to do with it. I'm going to have to take out loans to wrap up my undergrad which adds a little more burden to my situation, but the amount isn't overwhelming (about $15,000)

And again, I don't have particular big law dreams (though I wouldn't complain if I got there) I just want to make a comfortable living in a field of study that appeals to me.

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jumbocolumbo

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Re: Heavy (potential) splitter. Should I pursue WashU ED

Postby jumbocolumbo » Wed Jul 27, 2016 12:19 pm

WiltyMIZ wrote:Wow thanks for the input guys. And to elaborate: my GPA is roughly 2.87. So definitely sub 3.0. it's on an upward trend, and I still have a semester to go and have A's in all 3 of my summer courses but ultimately it isn't going to get too much better.


Do you have a compelling reason for the lower GPA (e.g. serious illness)? Could be beneficial to write an addendum for your GPA, especially considering your upward trend.

FWIW I still wouldn't ED with that GPA. There's a non-zero possibility you could snag a lower T-14 acceptance which could be used for leverage with WUSTL.

Best of Luck!

acr

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Re: Heavy (potential) splitter. Should I pursue WashU ED

Postby acr » Wed Jul 27, 2016 1:49 pm

It sounds like WUSTL ED is the right choice here.

Being from STL originally will give you a HUGE advantage when applying to STL firms - they really only hire people from Wash U who grew up in the area with a few exceptions. Being from the Midwest will help you with the Midwestern firms that come to our OCI and land you a decent amount of screeners if you do decent. And the coasts are still obtainable if you do pretty well.

With your GPA and tuition increases, I don't see you landing a significant scholarship at a lower T14 unless you absolutely kill the LSAT and get into the upper 170s.

I think you're better off without debt, and with your ties and goals, I think WUSTL is the right choice.

disclaimer: I'm a current WUSTL student but I rarely think it's the right choice for people to come here. I also got accepted ED so if you have any questions about that feel free to PM me.

ponderingmeerkat

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Re: Heavy (potential) splitter. Should I pursue WashU ED

Postby ponderingmeerkat » Wed Jul 27, 2016 2:31 pm

Here's an interesting, recent blog post from admissionbythenumbers where they evaluate which schools EDing has traditionally helped and which schools it has actually hurt.

http://admissionsbythenumbers.com/

End result: there's no discernible admissions bump at WUSTL for ED applicants. Schools where there is a bump are Chicago, UVA, Duke, Penn, NU, and George Mason.

Good news is WUSTL ED doesn't hurt your chances like it does at Emory, GWU, and NYU. Anyway, might all be a moot point given your interest in getting that full-ride. But, still someone valuable info for splitters.

WiltyMIZ

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Re: Heavy (potential) splitter. Should I pursue WashU ED

Postby WiltyMIZ » Wed Jul 27, 2016 3:15 pm

Again, thanks so much for all the input everyone. Looking as LSN's graphs and information and playing with mylsn results, it seems both (user-reported, and therefore potentially quite skewed) sets of data indicate a pretty decent shot at admission with a low GPA/ High LSAT split. What I'm not sure of is how representative this would be regarding the ED program. Any top 20 school throwing full rides at prospective students surely want to choose them wisely.

That being said, it appears that: Best(ish?) case here is I apply ED, get accepted and receive full tuition. Worst case (besides flat-out rejection) is I don't make that cutoff and I'm put back into the regular admissions pool, wherein any other applications I send out alongside WUSTL's would be fair game. Again, even with the seemingly large jump in admissions chances through NU's ED program (still don't like my chances all that much) I don't think I'd still need to take out substantially more debt. Granted the employment opportunities and higher-salary prospects are higher. Trade-offs I guess.

I'm not entirely sure what I'm going to do, and this whole thread is kind of moot point without a set-in-stone LSAT to plop onto an application. I just want to see everyone elses thoughts. I guess another option is try for an earlier LSAT?

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Tiago Splitter

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Re: Heavy (potential) splitter. Should I pursue WashU ED

Postby Tiago Splitter » Thu Jul 28, 2016 2:35 am

ponderingmeerkat wrote:Here's an interesting, recent blog post from admissionbythenumbers where they evaluate which schools EDing has traditionally helped and which schools it has actually hurt.

http://admissionsbythenumbers.com/

End result: there's no discernible admissions bump at WUSTL for ED applicants. Schools where there is a bump are Chicago, UVA, Duke, Penn, NU, and George Mason.

Good news is WUSTL ED doesn't hurt your chances like it does at Emory, GWU, and NYU. Anyway, might all be a moot point given your interest in getting that full-ride. But, still someone valuable info for splitters.

I believe that the info there is from before WashU started giving full rides to ED admits.

OP I think ED here is fine given the full ride but as you seem to understand there isn't a ton of downside with just going RD because WUSTL seems to pay a lot for high LSAT scores regardless of GPA. Just make sure to get that high LSAT score.



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