Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

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EnviroNerd
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Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby EnviroNerd » Tue Jul 19, 2016 12:47 pm

Hey guys! Ended up choosing Boston University for school. Factoring in scholarship and savings I will end up 60k in debt. Just wondering if this is reasonsble debt to handle after graduation if I don't obtain biglaw? Thanks

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oidsedidy
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby oidsedidy » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:09 pm

EnviroNerd wrote:Hey guys! Ended up choosing Boston University for school. Factoring in scholarship and savings I will end up 60k in debt. Just wondering if this is reasonsble debt to handle after graduation if I don't obtain biglaw? Thanks


Not sure anyone can really answer that for you. 60k is a lot of money to owe in non-discharcheable debt regardless of what profession you enter- whether it will be worth it or not is impossible to say for you right now.

candidlatke
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby candidlatke » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:33 pm

oidsedidy wrote:
EnviroNerd wrote:Hey guys! Ended up choosing Boston University for school. Factoring in scholarship and savings I will end up 60k in debt. Just wondering if this is reasonsble debt to handle after graduation if I don't obtain biglaw? Thanks


Not sure anyone can really answer that for you. 60k is a lot of money to owe in non-discharcheable debt regardless of what profession you enter- whether it will be worth it or not is impossible to say for you right now.


ok I get the normal tls debt aversion and everything but 60k total = 20k/year. isn't that pretty much a full ride/going for CoL?

barring stipend, you can't get much better than that and BU is a solid regional school

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oidsedidy
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby oidsedidy » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:40 pm

candidlatke wrote:
oidsedidy wrote:
EnviroNerd wrote:Hey guys! Ended up choosing Boston University for school. Factoring in scholarship and savings I will end up 60k in debt. Just wondering if this is reasonsble debt to handle after graduation if I don't obtain biglaw? Thanks


Not sure anyone can really answer that for you. 60k is a lot of money to owe in non-discharcheable debt regardless of what profession you enter- whether it will be worth it or not is impossible to say for you right now.


ok I get the normal tls debt aversion and everything but 60k total = 20k/year. isn't that pretty much a full ride/going for CoL?

barring stipend, you can't get much better than that and BU is a solid regional school


No argument against any of that- I am only suggesting that whether the 60k will be a reasonable amount of debt to shoulder is not something that can be answered before law school begins. Even landing Biglaw does not automatically justify such large debt (despite the enormous starting salary). My advice to OP is either to not worry about it and focus on other things before law school begins, or worry about it a lot and make sure that attending law school- at BU or anywhere else, is what OP really wants to do. 60k is a lot of money- it's worth recognizing.

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pancakes3
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby pancakes3 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 1:47 pm

you're good w 60k at BU.

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ponderingmeerkat
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby ponderingmeerkat » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:19 pm

pancakes3 wrote:you're good w 60k at BU.


Yea, I'll cosign this.

There's a reason smart, thoughtful people disagree all the time about what is and is not appropriate levels of debt for a law degree (or for lots of things quite frankly...houses, cars, etc). That's because different people have different histories with money, their current financial situations vary dramatically, they have different priorities for their lives and they perceive their future options as having different future values.

So, I full acknowledge others may disagree. But, I see 60K as being a level of debt you can choose to continue living like a law student for 3-5 years and discharge (3 years if you're working biglaw in a big city and 5 years if you're earning 50K as a DA in a rural district). The key being most people bail on their jobs (biglaw especially) in 3-5 years. So, for me, I'd want to be out from under any debt-obligations by that time. Life's too short to be handcuffed to a job you hate because of debt payments.

In contrast, somewhere between 60k and 120K exists a debt load that I perceive as being REALLY hard to get rid of in that 3-5 year window. So, for me, my arbitrary limit will be something around 90K for a law degree from a T25 and up school. (Fully acknowledging others may draw the line in a different place for different reasons.)

So, if you buy into my line of reasoning, you should feel ok at $60K. Others will disagree for different reasons and you should listen to them too. Good luck man!

EnviroNerd
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby EnviroNerd » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:31 pm

Wow I really appreciate the feedback guys! I'm hoping I can pay it off in that timespan (3-5 years) given the fact it isn't a six digit debt load. I know my chances of paying it off the fastest is about 1/3 (chance of getting big law) and if that falls through, hopefully a medium paying job will suffice.

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pancakes3
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby pancakes3 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:49 pm

60k worth of direct, unsubsidized loans at 5.31% is 1,800/mo for 3 years, 1,140 for 5 years, or 650 for 10 years.

To me there's not much added value in robbing yourself of ~$1100/mo in discretionary income for 3 years just so you can pay your loan off sooner especially since the money is more valuable to you early in your career vs later (pay raises, inflation, DINKing up, etc.).

BigZuck
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:53 pm

I think it depends on how much of your savings you are spending. 100K cash $$$$$ out of pocket plus 60K debt would be a horrible decision IMO. I'd look at total cost first and foremost (meaning how much you're paying out of pocket+anticipated debt)

BigZuck
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby BigZuck » Tue Jul 19, 2016 2:56 pm

BU cost of attendance is 70K. If you still have 27K scholarship that puts you at 43K a year. 43 X 3= 129, tack on some interest, maybe summer cost of living, etc. and lets call it 140Kish. 140K minus 60K debt means 80K out of savings.

That's a hard pass IMO, I wouldn't do it

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pancakes3
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby pancakes3 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:00 pm

oh. i didn't realize you were going to take 80k out of pocket. Then no. Fuck that. Retake.

EnviroNerd
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby EnviroNerd » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:23 pm

20k out of pocket. I already anticapated this and is why I saved the past year from working
. Rest will be covered by family

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ponderingmeerkat
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby ponderingmeerkat » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:55 pm

pancakes3 wrote:60k worth of direct, unsubsidized loans at 5.31% is 1,800/mo for 3 years, 1,140 for 5 years, or 650 for 10 years.

To me there's not much added value in robbing yourself of ~$1100/mo in discretionary income for 3 years just so you can pay your loan off sooner especially since the money is more valuable to you early in your career vs later (pay raises, inflation, DINKing up, etc.).


Completely disagree here. I'm all for striking a balance between a monastic life to pay down debt and living a little. But if you're being charged 5.31% interest, you'd be well advised to pay that down as fast as possible (absent the existence of higher-interest credit card debt or some other high interest loan like a car loan).

Having a 100% chance of achieving a 5.31% real rate of return is nothing to scoff at and if you're making 180+bonus, that $1100 is manageable. The only argument I could see would be, instead taking that $1100 and trying to max your 401K and IRA while trying to achieve the market average returns of 9ish%. Ok, if that's what you're doing with that $1100 a month, I can see the argument.

But if you're suggesting OP just spend this "discretionary income" on lifestyle inflation...nah dude. That's not a good look. Get time value of money working for you and not against you. That's the key to "money being valuable" to OP.

Redfactor
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby Redfactor » Tue Jul 19, 2016 3:56 pm

EnviroNerd wrote:20k out of pocket. I already anticapated this and is why I saved the past year from working
. Rest will be covered by family


Eek. See this is where more information earlier in the thread is better. Is your family well off or will they be taking funds out of their 401k in order to pay?

BU at 80k is a good choice made better by you paying down 20k.

If your folks are paying another 50k out of their hard-earned money, then it becomes a much harder question.

A part of growing up is paying your own way in life. Unless they have excess funds, really think before taking such a generous gift. You know your family dynamics better than anyone here....

EnviroNerd
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby EnviroNerd » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:07 pm

Lol they won't be taking it out of their 401K don't worry. We are well off enough where they forced me to let them help me. I was all for taking out my extra bit in loans but it's hard when your family forces you not to. If they feel the need and desire to help me out as they did my other siblings then I have no problem with that. If it was to the point where it would have an impact on their lives I wouldn't accept it.

Redfactor
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby Redfactor » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:11 pm

EnviroNerd wrote:Lol they won't be taking it out of their 401K don't worry. We are well off enough where they forced me to let them help me. I was all for taking out my extra bit in loans but it's hard when your family forces you not to. If they feel the need and desire to help me out as they did my other siblings then I have no problem with that. If it was to the point where it would have an impact on their lives I wouldn't accept it.



Glad to hear it :)

BU sounds like a very solid option.

Wish you the best as you embark.

EnviroNerd
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby EnviroNerd » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:23 pm

Redfactor wrote:
EnviroNerd wrote:Lol they won't be taking it out of their 401K don't worry. We are well off enough where they forced me to let them help me. I was all for taking out my extra bit in loans but it's hard when your family forces you not to. If they feel the need and desire to help me out as they did my other siblings then I have no problem with that. If it was to the point where it would have an impact on their lives I wouldn't accept it.



Glad to hear it :)

BU sounds like a very solid option

Wish you the best as you embark.



Thanks redfactor! :)

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Toni V
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby Toni V » Tue Jul 19, 2016 4:50 pm

If the tuition and COL is 60k. good deal. If its $60k tuition and another $60k for COL (over 3 years), then you’ll be at $120k with a 73% chance of immediate employment (per LST) = a 27% chance of no pay for a while.

HonestAdvice
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby HonestAdvice » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:41 pm

It's a good school, and 60k isn't that much debt. The money you're using from your savings is still money, and I'm not sure why you're only focused on the debt aspect. It's prioritized because most people don't have any real savings. 50k today is worth more than it will be when you graduate. However, it would be a bad mistake to choose it based on ranking over a slightly less regarded school in the area you intend to practice in. People generally try to hire from their alma mater, and BU may not be enough of a draw to offset that preference.

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Johann
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby Johann » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:44 am

EnviroNerd wrote:20k out of pocket. I already anticapated this and is why I saved the past year from working
. Rest will be covered by family


save your 20k cash and take the debt until you know you get biglaw.

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EnfieldTennisChamp
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby EnfieldTennisChamp » Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:46 am

ponderingmeerkat wrote: Others will disagree for different reasons and you should listen to them too.


I like that.

FamilyLawEsq
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Re: Non T-14 worth X amount in loans

Postby FamilyLawEsq » Wed Jul 20, 2016 5:22 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:
EnviroNerd wrote:20k out of pocket. I already anticapated this and is why I saved the past year from working
. Rest will be covered by family


save your 20k cash and take the debt until you know you get biglaw




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