. Forum

[nyu2019maybeplease]

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[brinicolec]

Note that this is not a "which school should I go to?"

Rather, I'm curious to get the thoughts of those in the legal community as to the potential outcomes from the schools for the average student of X class rank (I know, Michigan doesn't rank, but you can still tell where you are vis a vis the rest of the class).

Other than New York big law, are there things for which NYU grads achieve notably better outcomes than Michigan grads do? I have strong ties to NY. Possible trajectories include: East Coast big law (if i were to go biglaw route, it would likely be NYC, possibly Boston or DC if I was fortunate enough to draw offers) and federal government work (i know this is difficult to achieve from anywhere). I have a sense that I'd love to take a federal clerkship (possibly COA, again I know that's quite difficult from anywhere) as well. The pipedream is a federal judgeship, but I'm well aware of how difficult those are to obtain and that neither of these schools positions me decently well at all for one.

Thanks!

Not a member of the community BUT I do know that NYU has a big focus on PI, as well as doing well with big law.

[nyu2019maybeplease]

bump

[CTT]

U of M grad here. In terms of our outcomes, they were great for the Michigan class of 2016 (big improvement from class of 2015), and I would expect them to be similarly good going forward.

I would estimate that 75 percent of the most recent class at U of M either secured or could have secured big law jobs. A substantial number opted out. Another 15 percent have probably succeeded with something other than big law and didn't have the big law option. About 10 percent of the class probably graduated looking for work. Most of them will find something within a few months. A few graduates are just kind of screwed (basically a few smart K-JD kids who just couldn't make the jump to be serious about school or present well in interviews). At the other extreme, there's about 5 or 6 grads have legit shots at SCOTUS clerkships. According to last year's data, about twice as many Michigan grads (per graduate) from 2015 secured federal clerkships. I would expect those numbers to be more similar most years, though it may help that Michigan grads are likely to be more willing to a clerkship in, say, Michigan.

NYU feeds more directly into the NY market, whereas Michigan grads, including those who could have gotten jobs with the largest law firms, are more likely to be inclined toward Chicago or smaller midwest markets (Detroit, Cleveland, Minneapolis, etc.). This creates some data bias toward small or midsize firms, but in terms of the potential to get a job at a large law firm in New York, DC, or out west, it's very similar. NYU might be thought of as being in the CCN tier, but the reality is that NYU is probably as close to Michigan as it is to Chicago. These are peer schools.

LST is not the best data because of the huge difference between 2015 and 2016 U of M grads, but it's a reasonable starting place for a rough comparison.

[candidlatke]

i heard ACLU/impact litigation shit typically only draws from HYSCCN if that's what you're into but that's pretty unicorny

[nyu2019maybeplease]

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[CTT]

Thank you, and that's interesting information, but it's not the sort of thing for which I'm looking.

One question: Do people have a sense that the top NYC firms go a bit deeper into the class at NYU than they might at Michigan? That's the argument I've heard from NYU boosters, while Michigan folks will suggest that NYC firms will go after NYC-tied Michigan kids to get a different look and that the competition for slots from Michigan is less fierce.

They're close enough that it doesn't make much of a difference. The grades that large firms in New York are looking for from NYU students are probably slightly lower on average than what's expected from Michigan students, but for many of the top firms it's probably exactly the same.

And I know enough Michigan grads working for the ACLU that I'll can absolutely reject the notion that they're only interested in HYS and CCN grads. However, it is true that most of the Michigan grads I know working for the ACLU have gone that route after clerkships and usually other substantive experience.