Michigan vs OSU

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restmk

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Michigan vs OSU

Postby restmk » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:17 pm

I am trying to decide between taking a full tuition scholarship to Ohio State, and thus only needing to get loans for my living expenses, or a $15,000/year scholarship to U of Michigan. At Michigan I would have to get loans for $43,000 of tuition per year plus another ~$20,000/year for living expenses. OSU is ranked 30, while Michigan is 8. I want to go into patent law, but I'm not sure where yet. I may decide to go back to where I'm from in Cincinnati, or decide that I want to move elsewhere (California is very appealing to me). I know Michigan will give more opportunities, but I'm not sure if they are worth being almost $200,000 in debt. So, what do other people think, lower rank and minimal debt, or high rank and a lot of debt?

cavalier1138

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Re: Michigan vs OSU

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:19 pm

LSAT/GPA?

But just to offer up one small correction to your impressions of the relative placement power of these schools: you cannot go to California from OSU, period. It will not happen.

restmk

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Re: Michigan vs OSU

Postby restmk » Wed Jul 13, 2016 6:42 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:LSAT/GPA?

But just to offer up one small correction to your impressions of the relative placement power of these schools: you cannot go to California from OSU, period. It will not happen.



GPA:3.88 LSAT:161, I was taking 18 credit hours of intense science classes the semester I took the LSAT, so didn't have time to study very much at all. Not to make excuses, my score is what it is, just saying that if I could have studied more I am confident I would have scored higher.

And no chance of getting to CA from OSU? They say they have alumni in every state. Obviously it would be harder to get there, but would there be a chance if I was at the very top of my class? Or just no?

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ColoBoul

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Re: Michigan vs OSU

Postby ColoBoul » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:00 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:LSAT/GPA?

But just to offer up one small correction to your impressions of the relative placement power of these schools: you cannot go to California from OSU, period. It will not happen.


Anecdotal, but using absolutes in arguments..... A non patent bar OSU grad from 2015 is working in the San Francisco office of Jones Day.

CTT

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Re: Michigan vs OSU

Postby CTT » Wed Jul 13, 2016 7:13 pm

I'm a U of M grad. I think if you want to do patent work in Ohio, then you should just go to OSU, despite the fact that Michigan is far superior school. If being able to clerk or go to a large law firm in important to you, then Michigan may well be the better choice--depends on your tolerance for that annoying pile of debt.

The best choice is to retake the LSAT, spend a year working, and reapply.

In terms of anecdotes, I would guess I had 30 classmates at Michigan who went out to California for jobs. A few people will go west from OSU every year, but if you go to Michigan and have a background in technology or finance, it's like shooting fish in barrel.

restmk

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Re: Michigan vs OSU

Postby restmk » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:13 pm

CTT wrote:I'm a U of M grad. I think if you want to do patent work in Ohio, then you should just go to OSU, despite the fact that Michigan is far superior school. If being able to clerk or go to a large law firm in important to you, then Michigan may well be the better choice--depends on your tolerance for that annoying pile of debt.

The best choice is to retake the LSAT, spend a year working, and reapply.

In terms of anecdotes, I would guess I had 30 classmates at Michigan who went out to California for jobs. A few people will go west from OSU every year, but if you go to Michigan and have a background in technology or finance, it's like shooting fish in barrel.



Thank you for your opinion, that was a lot of help. In regards to taking a year off and reapplying, would it be a good idea to start towards an MBA during the year off? I had planned to apply later for the JD/MBA dual degree program anyway. So would it be just as good if I started that now, or do you think getting work experience is better?

restmk

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Re: Michigan vs OSU

Postby restmk » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:14 pm

ColoBoul wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:LSAT/GPA?

But just to offer up one small correction to your impressions of the relative placement power of these schools: you cannot go to California from OSU, period. It will not happen.


Anecdotal, but using absolutes in arguments..... A non patent bar OSU grad from 2015 is working in the San Francisco office of Jones Day.



Thank you, do you know the name of that OSU grad? I would love to be able to contact to him if possible.

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ColoBoul

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Re: Michigan vs OSU

Postby ColoBoul » Wed Jul 13, 2016 8:51 pm

restmk wrote:
ColoBoul wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:LSAT/GPA?

But just to offer up one small correction to your impressions of the relative placement power of these schools: you cannot go to California from OSU, period. It will not happen.


Anecdotal, but using absolutes in arguments..... A non patent bar OSU grad from 2015 is working in the San Francisco office of Jones Day.



Thank you, do you know the name of that OSU grad? I would love to be able to contact to him if possible.


You can find her pretty easily, as the other poster noted OSU grads out West in big firms are not the norm. Jones Day has a pretty good search for attorneys on their website, just filter by office and school.

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Johann

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Re: Michigan vs OSU

Postby Johann » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:10 pm

restmk wrote:I am trying to decide between taking a full tuition scholarship to Ohio State, and thus only needing to get loans for my living expenses, or a $15,000/year scholarship to U of Michigan. At Michigan I would have to get loans for $43,000 of tuition per year plus another ~$20,000/year for living expenses. OSU is ranked 30, while Michigan is 8. I want to go into patent law, but I'm not sure where yet. I may decide to go back to where I'm from in Cincinnati, or decide that I want to move elsewhere (California is very appealing to me). I know Michigan will give more opportunities, but I'm not sure if they are worth being almost $200,000 in debt. So, what do other people think, lower rank and minimal debt, or high rank and a lot of debt?


the debt can be a bit daunting. but when you consider that the decision may affect 2500 hours of every year for the next 30 years that's 75000 hours or 8.5 years of time. It's a lot of money but it's less than $3/hr you'll probably work in your life. There are also lots of government repayment programs that make the debt very manageable (PAYE means you are paying at most 10% of your salary towards loans a year). Only you know your risk tolerance for debt compared to how much you want to do patent law, but it might be worth the monetary risk if it means never having to look back in a less than ideal job after OSU wondering if only I had gone to Michigan.

Regardless of where you go, you'll likely be looking back and wondering if only I hadn't gone to law school though. If you're smart enough to get into Michigan, you're smart enough to make money with your brain rather than being an on-call monkey round the clock.

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Johann

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Re: Michigan vs OSU

Postby Johann » Wed Jul 13, 2016 9:13 pm

ColoBoul wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:LSAT/GPA?

But just to offer up one small correction to your impressions of the relative placement power of these schools: you cannot go to California from OSU, period. It will not happen.


Anecdotal, but using absolutes in arguments..... A non patent bar OSU grad from 2015 is working in the San Francisco office of Jones Day.


if you look at the LST job placement data, turns out a few people go to California from OSU routinely. Much of that is also probably self selection.

Cav - you're a 0L stop giving really shitty advice that you know nothing about.

cavalier1138

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Re: Michigan vs OSU

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:14 am

JohannDeMann wrote:
ColoBoul wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:LSAT/GPA?

But just to offer up one small correction to your impressions of the relative placement power of these schools: you cannot go to California from OSU, period. It will not happen.


Anecdotal, but using absolutes in arguments..... A non patent bar OSU grad from 2015 is working in the San Francisco office of Jones Day.


if you look at the LST job placement data, turns out a few people go to California from OSU routinely. Much of that is also probably self selection.

Cav - you're a 0L stop giving really shitty advice that you know nothing about.


Johann, you're a lawyer(?) who keeps advocating that people put themselves in debt and take a giant tax hit after a few decades. Piss off.

And it's not "self-selection" in the sense that anyone who wants to go to California from OSU can just hop on a plane and get a job. The 2-3 people who did that are likely California natives, which the OP isn't.

But please, go on. I love seeing people advocate for patently false positions, like a state university in Ohio having strong national placement power. That's just common sense, right?

acr

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Re: Michigan vs OSU

Postby acr » Thu Jul 14, 2016 12:19 am

Too much money for Michigan. You'll be roughly ~$200,000 in debt before interest after three years of attendance. If these are the only options, then I think you're better off without debt and should take Ohio State. The credited response is to retake the LSAT and attend Michigan with significantly more monies.

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heythatslife

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Re: Michigan vs OSU

Postby heythatslife » Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:01 am

restmk wrote:
CTT wrote:I'm a U of M grad. I think if you want to do patent work in Ohio, then you should just go to OSU, despite the fact that Michigan is far superior school. If being able to clerk or go to a large law firm in important to you, then Michigan may well be the better choice--depends on your tolerance for that annoying pile of debt.

The best choice is to retake the LSAT, spend a year working, and reapply.

In terms of anecdotes, I would guess I had 30 classmates at Michigan who went out to California for jobs. A few people will go west from OSU every year, but if you go to Michigan and have a background in technology or finance, it's like shooting fish in barrel.



Thank you for your opinion, that was a lot of help. In regards to taking a year off and reapplying, would it be a good idea to start towards an MBA during the year off? I had planned to apply later for the JD/MBA dual degree program anyway. So would it be just as good if I started that now, or do you think getting work experience is better?

Most decent MBA programs are going to require you to have some work experience to have a realistic chance. If you're serious about it, I would say consider taking about 2 years off to work while preparing for LSAT and GMAT.

In any case, I echo the others that the correct answer here is to retake LSAT. OSU to CA is not impossible per se but you should know that it's an uphill struggle that you're unlikely to succeed especially given your lack of ties.



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