Northwestern ED?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
IceTown
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 8:06 am

Northwestern ED?

Postby IceTown » Fri May 13, 2016 8:26 am

174/3.7

2 years solid WE

Hoping for Biglaw, but quite open to other private practice jobs if I'm not deeply in debt.

My first choice city to work in would be Chicago. I also would consider returning to Cincinnati (strong ties). Open to going to NYC or other cities as well.

Other schools I am considering: H, Chicago, Columbia, NYU, Duke, Michigan, Cornell, OSU

Given my info presented above, is it worth it for me to limit my options by applying to Northwestern ED? I would prefer Harvard/Chicago, but not at any cost, and I am afraid that if I do not go the ED route that I will not get a shot at $150k from a T-14 again. Whatever my COA eventually is will be largely financed by debt.

16to19
Posts: 158
Joined: Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:02 pm

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby 16to19 » Fri May 13, 2016 10:34 am

I don't have an answer to the question you asked but I can offer this.

I have your GPA and an LSAT score 5-10 points below you and got $$ from Michigan, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a pretty nice award from them. That being said, this whole thing is a crap shoot.

NUDad
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Dec 17, 2015 3:33 pm

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby NUDad » Fri May 13, 2016 11:07 am

My advice is to not go the NU ED route. With your LSAT/GPA, and a well-written PS, and solid recommendations, you will likely receive similar or even better offers from multiple T14 law schools.

If you are 100% certain that NU is your top choice and you like the idea of having your plans set by Christmas, then applying for the NU ED is a fine option. But I would recommend applying across the T14 and patiently waiting to see what they offer.

User avatar
Mikey
Posts: 7315
Joined: Sat Nov 28, 2015 5:24 pm

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby Mikey » Fri May 13, 2016 11:16 am

I think you can get some decent money at other T14's. I would say not to ED at NU since they may even give you a good amount of money from regular decision.

IceTown
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 8:06 am

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby IceTown » Sat May 14, 2016 1:43 pm

Thanks for the advice, everyone. It seems that waiting it out is a better way to go. Guess I'm going to embrace the crapshoot.

User avatar
twenty
Posts: 3181
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 1:17 pm

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby twenty » Sat May 14, 2016 2:26 pm

I'm going to go against the grain and say ED to NU.

If you want to work in/be in Chicago, the only better option is going to be UChicago, and you're not going to get enough scholarship money there to outweigh NU on a full ride. You'll probably get full rides from Cornell, Michigan and maybe Duke, but would you really attend any of those schools over Northwestern if you got a full ride there too?

Yeah, you're limiting your options - to probably the best option you could possibly have.

User avatar
Kinky John
Posts: 1127
Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2014 10:52 am

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby Kinky John » Sat May 14, 2016 3:28 pm

In your situation (biglaw, Chicago, debt-averse) ED'ing makes a lot of sense. If you can find people on LSN that are getting around or above $150k at NU with your stats (w/o ED), then taking your chances w/ RD would be more justifiable.

IceTown
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri May 13, 2016 8:06 am

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby IceTown » Sat May 14, 2016 3:52 pm

Kinky John wrote:In your situation (biglaw, Chicago, debt-averse) ED'ing makes a lot of sense. If you can find people on LSN that are getting around or above $150k at NU with your stats (w/o ED), then taking your chances w/ RD would be more justifiable.


Valid. I wish the data surrounding scholarship $$ were anywhere near as robust as admissions data.

User avatar
cron1834
Posts: 2227
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2014 1:36 am

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby cron1834 » Sat May 14, 2016 3:59 pm

Nothing wrong with ED NU here. $150k at NU with a goal of Chicago is about as good an outcome as you could hope for. I think that GPA will disqualify you from getting equivalent money at UChi, and it's not at all clear that HYSCCN with less money is better than a huge discount at NU. I'd go for it.

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 17158
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Sat May 14, 2016 4:02 pm

twenty wrote:I'm going to go against the grain and say ED to NU.

If you want to work in/be in Chicago, the only better option is going to be UChicago, and you're not going to get enough scholarship money there to outweigh NU on a full ride. You'll probably get full rides from Cornell, Michigan and maybe Duke, but would you really attend any of those schools over Northwestern if you got a full ride there too?

Yeah, you're limiting your options - to probably the best option you could possibly have.

The only issue is that 150k is a good 30-40k below a full ride these days. I'd do NU ED as well but the upside of not doing it is that you might get a little more, perhaps even from NU.

Chrstgtr
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:53 am

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby Chrstgtr » Sat May 14, 2016 4:38 pm

IceTown wrote:174/3.7

2 years solid WE

Hoping for Biglaw, but quite open to other private practice jobs if I'm not deeply in debt.

My first choice city to work in would be Chicago. I also would consider returning to Cincinnati (strong ties). Open to going to NYC or other cities as well.

Other schools I am considering: H, Chicago, Columbia, NYU, Duke, Michigan, Cornell, OSU

Given my info presented above, is it worth it for me to limit my options by applying to Northwestern ED? I would prefer Harvard/Chicago, but not at any cost, and I am afraid that if I do not go the ED route that I will not get a shot at $150k from a T-14 again. Whatever my COA eventually is will be largely financed by debt.


If you want Chicago, NU, UChicago, and H are the three schools you should be looking at because they have the most placing power in Chicago. Even if you max out H's need based aid you will still have around 160K in debt, and thus more than you would with NU ED. I also highly doubt you will get 150K or more from UChicago. So, if your stated preferences are true, I think this is a no brainer. ED NU

User avatar
Rigo
Posts: 15773
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 3:19 pm

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby Rigo » Sun May 15, 2016 11:49 am

Tiago Splitter wrote:
twenty wrote:I'm going to go against the grain and say ED to NU.
If you want to work in/be in Chicago, the only better option is going to be UChicago, and you're not going to get enough scholarship money there to outweigh NU on a full ride. You'll probably get full rides from Cornell, Michigan and maybe Duke, but would you really attend any of those schools over Northwestern if you got a full ride there too?
Yeah, you're limiting your options - to probably the best option you could possibly have.

The only issue is that 150k is a good 30-40k below a full ride these days. I'd do NU ED as well but the upside of not doing it is that you might get a little more, perhaps even from NU.

Yeah OP you very well may get more money (I've seen $165k) at NU if you RD. Or you'll probably get $150k RD anyways. I don't think you'd miss out "on your only chance at a full ride" by applying RD.
It really comes down to if you want to see your other options. Both ED'ing and applying broadly are justifiable. I'd apply to the entire T14 and see what happens, but that's just me (I don't have a strong Chicago preference).

Great job on the LSAT and good luck OP!

User avatar
Mullens
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:34 am

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby Mullens » Sun May 15, 2016 12:49 pm

If this was 3 years ago when tuition was closer to 50k and a much smaller number of people were getting larger rewards to NU, I would say to ED NU for sure. Now, I think it's much more of a toss-up. It really depends on your tolerance for risk and how you would feel about foregoing the chance of admission to Harvard and the possibility of a higher reward (which is far from guaranteed because your GPA is below median and scholarship offers are pretty black box). I EDed NU 3 years ago with somewhat similar numbers (a lower GPA but still between 25/median) and think it's one of the best decisions I ever made. I'll likely graduate debt-free and got the exact job I wanted in Chicago biglaw.

NU and UChi place the same in Chicago and I think there's a strong argument to be made based on summer classes in recent years that NU does better in Chicago than UChi.

Shootin
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby Shootin » Mon May 16, 2016 8:45 am

Mullens wrote:If this was 3 years ago when tuition was closer to 50k and a much smaller number of people were getting larger rewards to NU, I would say to ED NU for sure. Now, I think it's much more of a toss-up. It really depends on your tolerance for risk and how you would feel about foregoing the chance of admission to Harvard and the possibility of a higher reward (which is far from guaranteed because your GPA is below median and scholarship offers are pretty black box). I EDed NU 3 years ago with somewhat similar numbers (a lower GPA but still between 25/median) and think it's one of the best decisions I ever made. I'll likely graduate debt-free and got the exact job I wanted in Chicago biglaw.

NU and UChi place the same in Chicago and I think there's a strong argument to be made based on summer classes in recent years that NU does better in Chicago than UChi.


I would think that the difference could be due to UChi being a more national school (people are more likely to travel far to attend it and then want to go back home or a new market they were always interested in). I am pretty sure UChi has a good edge over NU, just less of their students are interested in Chicago.

User avatar
Mullens
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:34 am

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby Mullens » Mon May 16, 2016 11:31 am

Shootin wrote:
Mullens wrote:If this was 3 years ago when tuition was closer to 50k and a much smaller number of people were getting larger rewards to NU, I would say to ED NU for sure. Now, I think it's much more of a toss-up. It really depends on your tolerance for risk and how you would feel about foregoing the chance of admission to Harvard and the possibility of a higher reward (which is far from guaranteed because your GPA is below median and scholarship offers are pretty black box). I EDed NU 3 years ago with somewhat similar numbers (a lower GPA but still between 25/median) and think it's one of the best decisions I ever made. I'll likely graduate debt-free and got the exact job I wanted in Chicago biglaw.

NU and UChi place the same in Chicago and I think there's a strong argument to be made based on summer classes in recent years that NU does better in Chicago than UChi.


I would think that the difference could be due to UChi being a more national school (people are more likely to travel far to attend it and then want to go back home or a new market they were always interested in). I am pretty sure UChi has a good edge over NU, just less of their students are interested in Chicago.


Based on what though?

Shootin
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby Shootin » Mon May 16, 2016 1:10 pm

Mullens wrote:
Shootin wrote:
Mullens wrote:If this was 3 years ago when tuition was closer to 50k and a much smaller number of people were getting larger rewards to NU, I would say to ED NU for sure. Now, I think it's much more of a toss-up. It really depends on your tolerance for risk and how you would feel about foregoing the chance of admission to Harvard and the possibility of a higher reward (which is far from guaranteed because your GPA is below median and scholarship offers are pretty black box). I EDed NU 3 years ago with somewhat similar numbers (a lower GPA but still between 25/median) and think it's one of the best decisions I ever made. I'll likely graduate debt-free and got the exact job I wanted in Chicago biglaw.

NU and UChi place the same in Chicago and I think there's a strong argument to be made based on summer classes in recent years that NU does better in Chicago than UChi.


I would think that the difference could be due to UChi being a more national school (people are more likely to travel far to attend it and then want to go back home or a new market they were always interested in). I am pretty sure UChi has a good edge over NU, just less of their students are interested in Chicago.


Based on what though?


Based on school recognition. Obviously I am speculating to a certain degree here since there is no way for me to know exactly how many people from each school shoot for chicago biglaw and how many end up getting it, so that I could then compare the success percentages. But I see no reason why employers would favor NU (which has a really good reputation) over U chicago (which has even better reputation). Self selection is the only thing that comes to mind. Unless you know of something I haven't mentioned here?

User avatar
Mullens
Posts: 958
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:34 am

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby Mullens » Mon May 16, 2016 3:25 pm

Shootin wrote:
Mullens wrote:
Shootin wrote:
Mullens wrote:If this was 3 years ago when tuition was closer to 50k and a much smaller number of people were getting larger rewards to NU, I would say to ED NU for sure. Now, I think it's much more of a toss-up. It really depends on your tolerance for risk and how you would feel about foregoing the chance of admission to Harvard and the possibility of a higher reward (which is far from guaranteed because your GPA is below median and scholarship offers are pretty black box). I EDed NU 3 years ago with somewhat similar numbers (a lower GPA but still between 25/median) and think it's one of the best decisions I ever made. I'll likely graduate debt-free and got the exact job I wanted in Chicago biglaw.

NU and UChi place the same in Chicago and I think there's a strong argument to be made based on summer classes in recent years that NU does better in Chicago than UChi.


I would think that the difference could be due to UChi being a more national school (people are more likely to travel far to attend it and then want to go back home or a new market they were always interested in). I am pretty sure UChi has a good edge over NU, just less of their students are interested in Chicago.


Based on what though?


Based on school recognition. Obviously I am speculating to a certain degree here since there is no way for me to know exactly how many people from each school shoot for chicago biglaw and how many end up getting it, so that I could then compare the success percentages. But I see no reason why employers would favor NU (which has a really good reputation) over U chicago (which has even better reputation). Self selection is the only thing that comes to mind. Unless you know of something I haven't mentioned here?


So you're just a 0L who made an assumption based on USNWR rankings. Got it.

Shootin
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 11:16 am

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby Shootin » Mon May 16, 2016 4:13 pm

Mullens wrote:
Shootin wrote:
Mullens wrote:
Shootin wrote:
Mullens wrote:If this was 3 years ago when tuition was closer to 50k and a much smaller number of people were getting larger rewards to NU, I would say to ED NU for sure. Now, I think it's much more of a toss-up. It really depends on your tolerance for risk and how you would feel about foregoing the chance of admission to Harvard and the possibility of a higher reward (which is far from guaranteed because your GPA is below median and scholarship offers are pretty black box). I EDed NU 3 years ago with somewhat similar numbers (a lower GPA but still between 25/median) and think it's one of the best decisions I ever made. I'll likely graduate debt-free and got the exact job I wanted in Chicago biglaw.

NU and UChi place the same in Chicago and I think there's a strong argument to be made based on summer classes in recent years that NU does better in Chicago than UChi.


I would think that the difference could be due to UChi being a more national school (people are more likely to travel far to attend it and then want to go back home or a new market they were always interested in). I am pretty sure UChi has a good edge over NU, just less of their students are interested in Chicago.


Based on what though?


Based on school recognition. Obviously I am speculating to a certain degree here since there is no way for me to know exactly how many people from each school shoot for chicago biglaw and how many end up getting it, so that I could then compare the success percentages. But I see no reason why employers would favor NU (which has a really good reputation) over U chicago (which has even better reputation). Self selection is the only thing that comes to mind. Unless you know of something I haven't mentioned here?


So you're just a 0L who made an assumption based on USNWR rankings. Got it.



Very intelligent of you.

Chrstgtr
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:53 am

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby Chrstgtr » Mon May 16, 2016 7:27 pm

Shootin wrote:
Mullens wrote:
Shootin wrote:
Mullens wrote:
Shootin wrote:
Mullens wrote:If this was 3 years ago when tuition was closer to 50k and a much smaller number of people were getting larger rewards to NU, I would say to ED NU for sure. Now, I think it's much more of a toss-up. It really depends on your tolerance for risk and how you would feel about foregoing the chance of admission to Harvard and the possibility of a higher reward (which is far from guaranteed because your GPA is below median and scholarship offers are pretty black box). I EDed NU 3 years ago with somewhat similar numbers (a lower GPA but still between 25/median) and think it's one of the best decisions I ever made. I'll likely graduate debt-free and got the exact job I wanted in Chicago biglaw.

NU and UChi place the same in Chicago and I think there's a strong argument to be made based on summer classes in recent years that NU does better in Chicago than UChi.


I would think that the difference could be due to UChi being a more national school (people are more likely to travel far to attend it and then want to go back home or a new market they were always interested in). I am pretty sure UChi has a good edge over NU, just less of their students are interested in Chicago.


Based on what though?


Based on school recognition. Obviously I am speculating to a certain degree here since there is no way for me to know exactly how many people from each school shoot for chicago biglaw and how many end up getting it, so that I could then compare the success percentages. But I see no reason why employers would favor NU (which has a really good reputation) over U chicago (which has even better reputation). Self selection is the only thing that comes to mind. Unless you know of something I haven't mentioned here?


So you're just a 0L who made an assumption based on USNWR rankings. Got it.



Very intelligent of you.


Pretty much everyone I know at NU and UChicago wanted to bid Chicago firms. The only reason why everyone did not is because they know Chicago is a somewhat difficult market to get into and needed to play it safe by (1) bidding their #1 prefered market (not Chicago) and NYC or (2) bidding exclusively NYC because they were at too great a risk of striking out.

Also if my memory serves me correctly, 11 out of the 12 largest firms in Chicago are headed by NU grads.

Anecdotally, every person I have ever spoken to at Chicago firms say they have the same cutoffs for NU and UChicago students.

Is there a benefit to going to UChicago? Probably. But that benefit is probably mostly in the form of clerkships and in non-Chicago markets.

OP's GPA is below NU's median and considerably below UChicago's median. UChicago really values GPAs compared to LSATs. To my knowledge, NU ED has become far more competitive this year than in its first year and they're throwing their money mostly towards applicants who are above most medians. If OP does get into UChicago it will probably be at a far greater price than at NU much less as an NU ED.

Tl;dr OP, if you are seriously interested in Chicago, NU gives you as good a shot as UChicago and will almost certainly be cheaper. NU ED also probably gives you the best chance at big money at a school that places well in Chicago

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 17158
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby Tiago Splitter » Mon May 16, 2016 7:58 pm

Chrstgtr wrote:Anecdotally, every person I have ever spoken to at Chicago firms say they have the same cutoffs for NU and UChicago students.

I'm fully in support of NU ED here but what does the above mean in practice? The schools use different grading systems and as far as I know neither one publishes ranks.

Chrstgtr
Posts: 264
Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2014 12:53 am

Re: Northwestern ED?

Postby Chrstgtr » Mon May 16, 2016 8:10 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:
Chrstgtr wrote:Anecdotally, every person I have ever spoken to at Chicago firms say they have the same cutoffs for NU and UChicago students.

I'm fully in support of NU ED here but what does the above mean in practice? The schools use different grading systems and as far as I know neither one publishes ranks.


I was confused when I heard it as well. I didn't want to push back too much, though, because I was applying for jobs at those firms when I was told those statements.

FWIW, those big Chicago firms like Sidley, KE, etc. probably have a better idea of what the curve looks like at NU and UChicago and what equivalent GPAs are from those schools than anyone else because they interview around half of each school's class at OCI.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Barry grandpapy and 3 guests