Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Cornell vs Minnesota ($$$)

Poll ended at Sun May 08, 2016 1:37 am

Cornell (no scholarship)
14
54%
Minnesota (Full scholarship)
12
46%
 
Total votes: 26

seoul_man

New
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:04 am

Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby seoul_man » Wed May 04, 2016 1:37 am

I already paid my 1st deposit to Cornell and withdrew other acceptances (including Minnesota) except for the waitlist offers.
But then U of Minnesota just reached out to me saying that they are willing to offer a renewable full tuition scholarship ($160k).

I am hoping to find a job in NYC, so Cornell might be the logical choice for me although I am open to the idea of working at a big law firm in the midwest. I'm a non-US citizen, so big law is the only viable option if I wanted to stay since public interest organizations won't be able to sponsor my work visa. But given the cost of attendance, a full ride at U of Minnesota has definitely caught my attention. I'm willing to finance my education at Cornell or other top law schools I might end up going provided they offer better potential for job placement and quality of education. What do you think? I have less than a week to decide to take the offer from Minnesota or not.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=249170 This also made me concerned.
Last edited by seoul_man on Wed May 04, 2016 2:41 am, edited 2 times in total.

acr

Silver
Posts: 756
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:14 pm

Re: Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby acr » Wed May 04, 2016 1:55 am

seoul_man wrote:I already paid my 1st deposit to Cornell and withdrew other acceptances (including Minnesota) except for the waitlist offers.
But then U of Minnesota just reached out to me saying that they are willing to offer a renewable full tuition scholarship ($160k).

I am hoping to find a job in NYC, so Cornell might be the logical choice for me although I am open to the idea of working at a big firm in the midwest. (Not going to retake) But given the cost of attendance, a full ride at U of Minnesota has definitely caught my attention. I'm willing to finance my education at Cornell or other top law schools I might end up going provided they offer better potential for job placement and quality of education. What do you think? I have less than a week to decide to take the offer from Minnesota or not.


Cornell is a good school, but no legal education is worth $300,000. It is truly difficult to grasp the magnitude of that debt. Attending Minnesota would be a gamble, but if it doesn't end up providing you with the opportunities you're seeking, at least you wouldn't be in debt. $300,000 is just staggering and I would never recommend that to anyone.

xiao_long

New
Posts: 53
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2008 10:38 pm

Re: Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby xiao_long » Wed May 04, 2016 2:00 am

If you want big law, Cornell is definitely the better choice as it places well over half of its class into big law. Do you have ties to Minnesota? For the Midwest market, ties do matter. It's hard enough even for locals to get placed into a large firm, given the small size of the MN market.

In the end, I'd say go to Cornell, even at sticker price given the alternatives. I don't think anyone can argue that Cornell would probably offer a better legal education compared to Minnesota, so there's some intrinsic value right there in choosing Cornell. Sure, you can go to Minnesota for free, but what if you don't graduate in the top 15 percent of your class in order to have a fighting chance at big law? What are you going to do then? Pursue public interest?

Going to law school, any law school, is a big bet. For big law, Cornell is a much safer bet compared to Minnesota, and I think that's worth the $150k gamble. If you don't want to take this $150k gamble, don't go to law school.

User avatar
rpupkin

Platinum
Posts: 5659
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby rpupkin » Wed May 04, 2016 2:01 am

If you won't retake/reapply, then I guess Minnesota. Cornell is not worth $250K+ of debt.

But please retake and/or reconsider your decision to go to law school.

seoul_man

New
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:04 am

Re: Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby seoul_man » Wed May 04, 2016 2:03 am

acr wrote:
seoul_man wrote:I already paid my 1st deposit to Cornell and withdrew other acceptances (including Minnesota) except for the waitlist offers.
But then U of Minnesota just reached out to me saying that they are willing to offer a renewable full tuition scholarship ($160k).

I am hoping to find a job in NYC, so Cornell might be the logical choice for me although I am open to the idea of working at a big firm in the midwest. (Not going to retake) But given the cost of attendance, a full ride at U of Minnesota has definitely caught my attention. I'm willing to finance my education at Cornell or other top law schools I might end up going provided they offer better potential for job placement and quality of education. What do you think? I have less than a week to decide to take the offer from Minnesota or not.


Cornell is a good school, but no legal education is worth $300,000. It is truly difficult to grasp the magnitude of that debt. Attending Minnesota would be a gamble, but if it doesn't end up providing you with the opportunities you're seeking, at least you wouldn't be in debt. $300,000 is just staggering and I would never recommend that to anyone.


I agree that graduating debt free carries less financial risk (event without getting a big law job), but I am a bit concerned about Minnesota's job placement numbers and bar pass rate (especially for NY). Since I don't have family ties in MN or NY, I believe aiming for the bigger market might be a better shot. But yes, $300,000 is a lot of money to pay back.

User avatar
rpupkin

Platinum
Posts: 5659
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby rpupkin » Wed May 04, 2016 2:04 am

xiao_long wrote:In the end, I'd say go to Cornell, even at sticker price given the alternatives.

OP: Check out some of the TLS threads from associates in NYC big law. It's a miserable experience for many—probably even most—people. If you have $250K+ of debt, you will be stuck there for years, with little financial or career flexibility. Don't go that route.

User avatar
rpupkin

Platinum
Posts: 5659
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby rpupkin » Wed May 04, 2016 2:07 am

seoul_man wrote:
acr wrote:
seoul_man wrote:I already paid my 1st deposit to Cornell and withdrew other acceptances (including Minnesota) except for the waitlist offers.
But then U of Minnesota just reached out to me saying that they are willing to offer a renewable full tuition scholarship ($160k).

I am hoping to find a job in NYC, so Cornell might be the logical choice for me although I am open to the idea of working at a big firm in the midwest. (Not going to retake) But given the cost of attendance, a full ride at U of Minnesota has definitely caught my attention. I'm willing to finance my education at Cornell or other top law schools I might end up going provided they offer better potential for job placement and quality of education. What do you think? I have less than a week to decide to take the offer from Minnesota or not.


Cornell is a good school, but no legal education is worth $300,000. It is truly difficult to grasp the magnitude of that debt. Attending Minnesota would be a gamble, but if it doesn't end up providing you with the opportunities you're seeking, at least you wouldn't be in debt. $300,000 is just staggering and I would never recommend that to anyone.


I agree that graduating debt free carries less financial risk (event without getting a big law job), but I am a bit concerned about Minnesota's job placement numbers and bar pass rate (especially for NY). Since I don't have family ties in MN or NY, I believe aiming for the bigger market might be a better shot. But yes, $300,000 is a lot of money to pay back.

You're right to be concerned about getting NYC big law out of Minnesota. That's why you should retake/reapply—but you refuse to consider that option for some reason.

acr

Silver
Posts: 756
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:14 pm

Re: Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby acr » Wed May 04, 2016 2:08 am

rpupkin wrote:
xiao_long wrote:In the end, I'd say go to Cornell, even at sticker price given the alternatives.

OP: Check out some of the TLS threads from associates in NYC big law. It's a miserable experience for many—probably even most—people. If you have $250K+ of debt, you will be stuck there for years, with little financial or career flexibility. Don't go that route.


I feel like big law is getting worse too--granted, I know nothing as a 1L, but I can never remember a point in the last 5 years I've stalked this forum where there have been THIS MANY big law hate threads. Doesn't it seem like it has been more prevalent lately?

Also, what if OP's firm has to lay him off for economic reasons? What if OP screws up and gets canned? There are simply some things outside of your control. What does OP do then if his firm lays him off because they don't have the business to keep him around and he has hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt?

seoul_man

New
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:04 am

Re: Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby seoul_man » Wed May 04, 2016 2:10 am

xiao_long wrote:If you want big law, Cornell is definitely the better choice as it places well over half of its class into big law. Do you have ties to Minnesota? For the Midwest market, ties do matter. It's hard enough even for locals to get placed into a large firm, given the small size of the MN market.

In the end, I'd say go to Cornell, even at sticker price given the alternatives. I don't think anyone can argue that Cornell would probably offer a better legal education compared to Minnesota, so there's some intrinsic value right there in choosing Cornell. Sure, you can go to Minnesota for free, but what if you don't graduate in the top 15 percent of your class in order to have a fighting chance at big law? What are you going to do then? Pursue public interest?

Going to law school, any law school, is a big bet. For big law, Cornell is a much safer bet compared to Minnesota, and I think that's worth the $150k gamble. If you don't want to take this $150k gamble, don't go to law school.


Thanks. I have a similar feeling about my situation here. Although I did my UG in Minnesota, I don't have family ties there. Plus there is no guarantee that I will excel at U of MN. I already tried negotiating my scholarship with Cornell when Minnesota was offering $100k, and it didn't work. Perhaps I should try it again now that Minnesota raised its offer although it seems like Cornell only responds when other T14 schools are offering scholarship.

acr

Silver
Posts: 756
Joined: Tue Jan 07, 2014 11:14 pm

Re: Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby acr » Wed May 04, 2016 2:11 am

seoul_man wrote:
xiao_long wrote:If you want big law, Cornell is definitely the better choice as it places well over half of its class into big law. Do you have ties to Minnesota? For the Midwest market, ties do matter. It's hard enough even for locals to get placed into a large firm, given the small size of the MN market.

In the end, I'd say go to Cornell, even at sticker price given the alternatives. I don't think anyone can argue that Cornell would probably offer a better legal education compared to Minnesota, so there's some intrinsic value right there in choosing Cornell. Sure, you can go to Minnesota for free, but what if you don't graduate in the top 15 percent of your class in order to have a fighting chance at big law? What are you going to do then? Pursue public interest?

Going to law school, any law school, is a big bet. For big law, Cornell is a much safer bet compared to Minnesota, and I think that's worth the $150k gamble. If you don't want to take this $150k gamble, don't go to law school.


Thanks. I have a similar feeling about my situation here. Although I did my UG in Minnesota, I don't have family ties there. Plus there is no guarantee that I will excel at U of MN. I already tried negotiating my scholarship with Cornell when Minnesota was offering $100k, and it didn't work. Perhaps I should try it again now that Minnesota raised its offer although it seems like Cornell only responds when other T14 schools are offering scholarship.


Wait you did your UG in Minnesota? I think this is a tie that SIGNIFICANTLY tips the balance in favor of Minnesota here.

seoul_man

New
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:04 am

Re: Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby seoul_man » Wed May 04, 2016 2:32 am

acr wrote:
seoul_man wrote:
xiao_long wrote:If you want big law, Cornell is definitely the better choice as it places well over half of its class into big law. Do you have ties to Minnesota? For the Midwest market, ties do matter. It's hard enough even for locals to get placed into a large firm, given the small size of the MN market.

In the end, I'd say go to Cornell, even at sticker price given the alternatives. I don't think anyone can argue that Cornell would probably offer a better legal education compared to Minnesota, so there's some intrinsic value right there in choosing Cornell. Sure, you can go to Minnesota for free, but what if you don't graduate in the top 15 percent of your class in order to have a fighting chance at big law? What are you going to do then? Pursue public interest?

Going to law school, any law school, is a big bet. For big law, Cornell is a much safer bet compared to Minnesota, and I think that's worth the $150k gamble. If you don't want to take this $150k gamble, don't go to law school.


Thanks. I have a similar feeling about my situation here. Although I did my UG in Minnesota, I don't have family ties there. Plus there is no guarantee that I will excel at U of MN. I already tried negotiating my scholarship with Cornell when Minnesota was offering $100k, and it didn't work. Perhaps I should try it again now that Minnesota raised its offer although it seems like Cornell only responds when other T14 schools are offering scholarship.


Wait you did your UG in Minnesota? I think this is a tie that SIGNIFICANTLY tips the balance in favor of Minnesota here.


Perhaps it does. But since I am a non-resident(non-US citizen), my only option as a lawyer in the US would be to work at big law since they're the only ones able to process the visa work (a whole new dimension I haven't dealt with yet). And Minnesota would be a bad choice if I can't find any big law job in the region. Having said that, I am hoping to end up at a school where my degree would be marketable outside of the US as well.

User avatar
mornincounselor

Silver
Posts: 1236
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:37 am

Re: Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby mornincounselor » Wed May 04, 2016 2:46 am

seoul_man wrote:
acr wrote:
seoul_man wrote:
xiao_long wrote:If you want big law, Cornell is definitely the better choice as it places well over half of its class into big law. Do you have ties to Minnesota? For the Midwest market, ties do matter. It's hard enough even for locals to get placed into a large firm, given the small size of the MN market.

In the end, I'd say go to Cornell, even at sticker price given the alternatives. I don't think anyone can argue that Cornell would probably offer a better legal education compared to Minnesota, so there's some intrinsic value right there in choosing Cornell. Sure, you can go to Minnesota for free, but what if you don't graduate in the top 15 percent of your class in order to have a fighting chance at big law? What are you going to do then? Pursue public interest?

Going to law school, any law school, is a big bet. For big law, Cornell is a much safer bet compared to Minnesota, and I think that's worth the $150k gamble. If you don't want to take this $150k gamble, don't go to law school.


Thanks. I have a similar feeling about my situation here. Although I did my UG in Minnesota, I don't have family ties there. Plus there is no guarantee that I will excel at U of MN. I already tried negotiating my scholarship with Cornell when Minnesota was offering $100k, and it didn't work. Perhaps I should try it again now that Minnesota raised its offer although it seems like Cornell only responds when other T14 schools are offering scholarship.


Wait you did your UG in Minnesota? I think this is a tie that SIGNIFICANTLY tips the balance in favor of Minnesota here.


Perhaps it does. But since I am a non-resident(non-US citizen), my only option as a lawyer in the US would be to work at big law since they're the only ones able to process the visa work (a whole new dimension I haven't dealt with yet). And Minnesota would be a bad choice if I can't find any big law job in the region. Having said that, I am hoping to end up at a school where my degree would be marketable outside of the US as well.


These factors, imo, swing the calculus towards Cornell (after retake/reapply). I almost paid $300k for Cornell, I'm glad I didn't (so far) but if you need big law and want a degree that is known outside the US, Cornell is one of the best.

Have you told us your GPA and LSAT and current non-law opportunities?

seoul_man

New
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:04 am

Re: Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby seoul_man » Wed May 04, 2016 2:52 am

mornincounselor wrote:
These factors, imo, swings the calculus towards Cornell (after retake/reapply). I almost paid $300k for Cornell, I'm glad I didn't (so far) but if you need big law and want a degree that is known outside the US, Cornell is one of the best.

Have you told us your GPA and LSAT and current non-law opportunities?


May I ask how you didn't end up paying $300K for Cornell? Retake? Or did you choose another school?
My numbers (GPA and LSAT) are just around median for Cornell 2015 entering class. I am not really interested in non-law work at this point after working for a few years after UG. My LSAT score increased by more than 15 points compared to my first practice test so I think I reached my limit lol.
Last edited by seoul_man on Wed May 04, 2016 9:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
mornincounselor

Silver
Posts: 1236
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:37 am

Re: Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby mornincounselor » Wed May 04, 2016 3:01 am

PM'd you.

I ask about GPA/LSAT because if you are like a 3.75 164-166 getting those few extra points to 167 are a huge deal to Cornell. If you are a 3.45 168 a retake is worth much less.

User avatar
rpupkin

Platinum
Posts: 5659
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby rpupkin » Wed May 04, 2016 3:02 am

seoul_man wrote:
mornincounselor wrote:
These factors, imo, swings the calculus towards Cornell (after retake/reapply). I almost paid $300k for Cornell, I'm glad I didn't (so far) but if you need big law and want a degree that is known outside the US, Cornell is one of the best.

Have you told us your GPA and LSAT and current non-law opportunities?


May I ask how you didn't end up paying $300K for Cornell? Retake? Or did you choose another school?
My numbers (GPA and LSAT) are just around median for Cornell 2015 entering class. I am not really interested in non-law work at this point after working 4 years after UG. My LSAT score increased by more than 15 points compared to my first practice test so I think I reached my limit lol.

Yeah, lol...take on $300K of debt and ruin your life...lol.

C'mon. You don't have good options right now in light of your circumstances. Do something to change that.

seoul_man

New
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:04 am

Re: Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby seoul_man » Wed May 04, 2016 3:11 am

rpupkin wrote:
C'mon. You don't have good options right now in light of your circumstances. Do something to change that.


Thanks for the advice. June LSAT could be my final resort to change things while negotiating with Cornell & waiting from other schools.

User avatar
jbagelboy

Diamond
Posts: 10313
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Cornell (sticker) vs Minnesota (full ride)

Postby jbagelboy » Fri May 06, 2016 11:59 am

voted Minnesota, but I'd do neither in your circumstances.

are you even eligible for federal loans? how would you debt finance Cornell JD?



Return to “Choosing a Law School?

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 18 guests