Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

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cavalier1138
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby cavalier1138 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:09 am

arielsm23 wrote: I just said that the rankings improved which correlates to some sort of improvement, mostly admissions standards. Which I imagine will eventually through the years pay off in the job market.


This is, again, not accurate.

Look, rankings matter. They do. But they matter in a different way than you appear to think they do.

When looking at school rankings, you need to look in blocks. There are the T14 schools (and all the little jockeying and infighting that comes with them). Those are the schools that don't really tie you down to a specific region of the country. They're followed by the other six schools that make up the T20 (give or take a few). Now, you start to get tied down to a region. Vanderbilt, for example, doesn't mean that you'll definitely work in the South after school, but there's a damn good chance that's where you'll end up.

Once you go down to the top 50, you start to get more and more regional, and by the top 100, you will be working in the same state, if not the same city, as your law school.

So when you get out of the T20, the rankings don't mean anything, because USNWR only ranks nationally. SMU might rank higher than DePaul, but someone at DePaul has a better chance in Chicago than in Texas (and vice-versa). So it doesn't matter if Texas A&M jumps up an absurd number of ranks. It's still in a lower tier. If it didn't jump over any Texas schools to get to its current spot, that doesn't help you.

And of course, a hypothetical future ranking jump will not help you get a job.

BigZuck
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby BigZuck » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:14 am

trmckenz wrote:
arielsm23 wrote:
trmckenz wrote:FWIW I work in Dallas biglaw as a patent agent and am applying to law schools for this fall as well. My bosses have advised me to not go to A&M simply because 'it's not there yet.' If you want a shot at biglaw and have no prior work experience in a law firm, you should go to at least a T1 (top 50) school. Biglaw interviews are typically gained by having a sufficient combination of three things: prior work experience, law school name/rank, and grades/class rank. In Dallas biglaw, A&M will not give you the second one, whereas SMU will.


Hm, see this is what I was looking for.. Well, I'm a legal assistant at a law firm in Austin. I doubt it would help me much. Yeah, I don't want it to absolutely preclude me from even getting an interview or consideration. Thank you, I appreciate the response. Are you going to go to SMU?


I am headed to SMU this fall unless I get off the waitlist at GW.

With your legal assistant experience, I have no doubt that you will be fluent in interviews. The hardest part for you, at A&M at least, would be getting the interviews with the big firms you said you wanted. Only the very top of the class at A&M (top 10% probably) will get interviews at the big firms in Dallas. The Fort Worth firms might be more lenient, but the pay is less there too. For Dallas biglaw, you really need to be at SMU (top 25% probably) or UT (above median probably).

Are you patent bar eligible?

The school has 1.3% in large law firms. Worse yet, none of those 3 kids reported a salary according to LST. It's probably not even genuine big law, just some staff attorney position or something. Even if all 3 are associates, it's just 3 kids. I think deadpanic was right on, but a 1% chance at big law is probably too generous. I'm confident that the OP has a 0% chance at big law from A&M.

OP- you need to change your goals, or change what law schools you're considering, or not go to law school. It's one of those three things. Going to A&M would be a terrible decision.

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emkay625
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby emkay625 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:21 am

OP, does your scholarship have a grade stipulation with it?

Looking at the school's 509 report, half of all 1Ls had their scholarship taken away from them—that's not good. If yours does have a stipulation, you need to negotiate to get that thrown out.

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ScottRiqui
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby ScottRiqui » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:24 am

OP - your thoughts that A&M is a school "on the rise", and that it might someday be an attractive choice, are not insane.

But if it happens at all, it's not going to happen quickly enough to make any difference for you. Hiring depends on reputation, and reputations have to be built over time. Even the A&M system can't stroke enough checks to polish a turd in 3/5/10 years.

arielsm23
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby arielsm23 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:35 am

emkay625 wrote:OP, does your scholarship have a grade stipulation with it?

Looking at the school's 509 report, half of all 1Ls had their scholarship taken away from them—that's not good. If yours does have a stipulation, you need to negotiate to get that thrown out.


My scholarship does not have a grade stipulation. Irrelevant at this point I suppose though haha.

arielsm23
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby arielsm23 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:37 am

ScottRiqui wrote:OP - your thoughts that A&M is a school "on the rise", and that it might someday be an attractive choice, are not insane.

But if it happens at all, it's not going to happen quickly enough to make any difference for you. Hiring depends on reputation, and reputations have to be built over time. Even the A&M system can't stroke enough checks to polish a turd in 3/5/10 years.


Thanks, appreciate respecting my premise.

This is true. I was wondering if A&M could increase reputation quickly enough to benefit me. It seems not so.

I wondered if A&M could mirror what UC Irvine did. But Irvine didn't buy a bad school and improve it, rather they started fresh with a brand new school. Suppose this is a big difference.

arielsm23
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby arielsm23 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:40 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
arielsm23 wrote: I just said that the rankings improved which correlates to some sort of improvement, mostly admissions standards. Which I imagine will eventually through the years pay off in the job market.


This is, again, not accurate.

Look, rankings matter. They do. But they matter in a different way than you appear to think they do.

When looking at school rankings, you need to look in blocks. There are the T14 schools (and all the little jockeying and infighting that comes with them). Those are the schools that don't really tie you down to a specific region of the country. They're followed by the other six schools that make up the T20 (give or take a few). Now, you start to get tied down to a region. Vanderbilt, for example, doesn't mean that you'll definitely work in the South after school, but there's a damn good chance that's where you'll end up.

Once you go down to the top 50, you start to get more and more regional, and by the top 100, you will be working in the same state, if not the same city, as your law school.

So when you get out of the T20, the rankings don't mean anything, because USNWR only ranks nationally. SMU might rank higher than DePaul, but someone at DePaul has a better chance in Chicago than in Texas (and vice-versa). So it doesn't matter if Texas A&M jumps up an absurd number of ranks. It's still in a lower tier. If it didn't jump over any Texas schools to get to its current spot, that doesn't help you.

And of course, a hypothetical future ranking jump will not help you get a job.


I do understand this. I genuinely thought A&M had potential to move up in rank tier-wise quickly. As they seem to be investing a lot and went up 38 ranks in one year.

arielsm23
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby arielsm23 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:47 am

trmckenz wrote:
arielsm23 wrote:
trmckenz wrote:FWIW I work in Dallas biglaw as a patent agent and am applying to law schools for this fall as well. My bosses have advised me to not go to A&M simply because 'it's not there yet.' If you want a shot at biglaw and have no prior work experience in a law firm, you should go to at least a T1 (top 50) school. Biglaw interviews are typically gained by having a sufficient combination of three things: prior work experience, law school name/rank, and grades/class rank. In Dallas biglaw, A&M will not give you the second one, whereas SMU will.


Hm, see this is what I was looking for.. Well, I'm a legal assistant at a law firm in Austin. I doubt it would help me much. Yeah, I don't want it to absolutely preclude me from even getting an interview or consideration. Thank you, I appreciate the response. Are you going to go to SMU?


I am headed to SMU this fall unless I get off the waitlist at GW.

With your legal assistant experience, I have no doubt that you will be fluent in interviews. The hardest part for you, at A&M at least, would be getting the interviews with the big firms you said you wanted. Only the very top of the class at A&M (top 10% probably) will get interviews at the big firms in Dallas. The Fort Worth firms might be more lenient, but the pay is less there too. For Dallas biglaw, you really need to be at SMU (top 25% probably) or UT (above median probably).

Are you patent bar eligible?


Right, I think I'd do well in interviews. But yes, getting the interview seems unlikely.

I know, SMU is so much better. I'm on the waitlist, hopefully I get in. Although scholarship seems unlikely so that brings in a bunch of other considerations.

I am not patent bar eligible.

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trmckenz
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby trmckenz » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:50 am

BigZuck wrote:
trmckenz wrote:
arielsm23 wrote:
trmckenz wrote:FWIW I work in Dallas biglaw as a patent agent and am applying to law schools for this fall as well. My bosses have advised me to not go to A&M simply because 'it's not there yet.' If you want a shot at biglaw and have no prior work experience in a law firm, you should go to at least a T1 (top 50) school. Biglaw interviews are typically gained by having a sufficient combination of three things: prior work experience, law school name/rank, and grades/class rank. In Dallas biglaw, A&M will not give you the second one, whereas SMU will.


Hm, see this is what I was looking for.. Well, I'm a legal assistant at a law firm in Austin. I doubt it would help me much. Yeah, I don't want it to absolutely preclude me from even getting an interview or consideration. Thank you, I appreciate the response. Are you going to go to SMU?


I am headed to SMU this fall unless I get off the waitlist at GW.

With your legal assistant experience, I have no doubt that you will be fluent in interviews. The hardest part for you, at A&M at least, would be getting the interviews with the big firms you said you wanted. Only the very top of the class at A&M (top 10% probably) will get interviews at the big firms in Dallas. The Fort Worth firms might be more lenient, but the pay is less there too. For Dallas biglaw, you really need to be at SMU (top 25% probably) or UT (above median probably).

Are you patent bar eligible?

The school has 1.3% in large law firms. Worse yet, none of those 3 kids reported a salary according to LST. It's probably not even genuine big law, just some staff attorney position or something. Even if all 3 are associates, it's just 3 kids. I think deadpanic was right on, but a 1% chance at big law is probably too generous. I'm confident that the OP has a 0% chance at big law from A&M.

OP- you need to change your goals, or change what law schools you're considering, or not go to law school. It's one of those three things. Going to A&M would be a terrible decision.


I agree, getting interviews with big firms and getting employed by those firms are two different things. Should OP go to A&M with the expectation of getting biglaw? Absolutely not. But it's still possible, especially in the larger FW firms (e.g., firms might take 1 A&M grad per year).

I've looked into A&M pretty deeply this spring, and while the school "isn't quite there yet," A&M actually has put some good people in place there, one of which is the head of career services (and the Dean and his marketing/BD team, a cool tax professor, and several decent IP professors, to name a few). The real issue is all of the 'baggage' left over from Wesleyan, particularly with respect to the school's reputation in the DFW (and especially Dallas) legal market.

arielsm23
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby arielsm23 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:53 am

poptart123 wrote:
arielsm23 wrote:I wonder about this St. Mary's + Tech being considered higher on the pecking order than A&M. Is this a unanimous thought, location wise A&M is in a better job market jumped both in ranking. Do you all consider Tech and St. Mary's to be superior because of the alumni network/? Another thing to pls keep in mind. Much of the job data is out of date for A&M as I imagine it changes each year since its so new.


I've lived in San Antonio and St. Mary's has respect in South Texas because it serves the San Antonio/South Texas community. If you live in that area of Texas the next nearest law schools are Austin or Houston excepted for a now non-accredited school in the valley/Laredo (can't remember exactly where). Most attorneys from that region went to school there so naturally the alumni base is very strong in the region.

Maybe the academic rigor isn't really what is respected, but the community the institution serves and the alumni base is what brings it respect in the community.

*Edit: realized this post moved fast from the time I read the original quote until now -- obviously a really late and maybe irrelevant comment now.


I appreciate the feedback haha. Yeah, that is my view on St. Mary's as well.

arielsm23
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby arielsm23 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:57 am

trmckenz wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
trmckenz wrote:
arielsm23 wrote:
trmckenz wrote:FWIW I work in Dallas biglaw as a patent agent and am applying to law schools for this fall as well. My bosses have advised me to not go to A&M simply because 'it's not there yet.' If you want a shot at biglaw and have no prior work experience in a law firm, you should go to at least a T1 (top 50) school. Biglaw interviews are typically gained by having a sufficient combination of three things: prior work experience, law school name/rank, and grades/class rank. In Dallas biglaw, A&M will not give you the second one, whereas SMU will.


Hm, see this is what I was looking for.. Well, I'm a legal assistant at a law firm in Austin. I doubt it would help me much. Yeah, I don't want it to absolutely preclude me from even getting an interview or consideration. Thank you, I appreciate the response. Are you going to go to SMU?


I am headed to SMU this fall unless I get off the waitlist at GW.

With your legal assistant experience, I have no doubt that you will be fluent in interviews. The hardest part for you, at A&M at least, would be getting the interviews with the big firms you said you wanted. Only the very top of the class at A&M (top 10% probably) will get interviews at the big firms in Dallas. The Fort Worth firms might be more lenient, but the pay is less there too. For Dallas biglaw, you really need to be at SMU (top 25% probably) or UT (above median probably).

Are you patent bar eligible?

The school has 1.3% in large law firms. Worse yet, none of those 3 kids reported a salary according to LST. It's probably not even genuine big law, just some staff attorney position or something. Even if all 3 are associates, it's just 3 kids. I think deadpanic was right on, but a 1% chance at big law is probably too generous. I'm confident that the OP has a 0% chance at big law from A&M.

OP- you need to change your goals, or change what law schools you're considering, or not go to law school. It's one of those three things. Going to A&M would be a terrible decision.


I agree, getting interviews with big firms and getting employed by those firms are two different things. Should OP go to A&M with the expectation of getting biglaw? Absolutely not. But it's still possible, especially in the larger FW firms (e.g., firms might take 1 A&M grad per year).

I've looked into A&M pretty deeply this spring, and while the school "isn't quite there yet," A&M actually has put some good people in place there, one of which is the head of career services (and the Dean and his marketing/BD team, a cool tax professor, and several decent IP professors, to name a few). The real issue is all of the 'baggage' left over from Wesleyan, particularly with respect to the school's reputation in the DFW (and especially Dallas) legal market.


Right exactly. Thank you. I also never said I had an expectation of going to A&M with the expectation of biglaw. I said that I didn't want the door shut before I even take a class. I'm comeplely aware that the Biglaw prospects are essentially 0. And yes, when you look deeper at A&M which I obviously have, hence this whole thread, there are definitely signs and steps in the right direction. But the overall problem is the Weslayan baggage. It seems like too much to overcome anytime soon, at least in my time there.

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emkay625
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby emkay625 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:03 pm

arielsm23 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
arielsm23 wrote: I just said that the rankings improved which correlates to some sort of improvement, mostly admissions standards. Which I imagine will eventually through the years pay off in the job market.


This is, again, not accurate.

Look, rankings matter. They do. But they matter in a different way than you appear to think they do.

When looking at school rankings, you need to look in blocks. There are the T14 schools (and all the little jockeying and infighting that comes with them). Those are the schools that don't really tie you down to a specific region of the country. They're followed by the other six schools that make up the T20 (give or take a few). Now, you start to get tied down to a region. Vanderbilt, for example, doesn't mean that you'll definitely work in the South after school, but there's a damn good chance that's where you'll end up.

Once you go down to the top 50, you start to get more and more regional, and by the top 100, you will be working in the same state, if not the same city, as your law school.

So when you get out of the T20, the rankings don't mean anything, because USNWR only ranks nationally. SMU might rank higher than DePaul, but someone at DePaul has a better chance in Chicago than in Texas (and vice-versa). So it doesn't matter if Texas A&M jumps up an absurd number of ranks. It's still in a lower tier. If it didn't jump over any Texas schools to get to its current spot, that doesn't help you.

And of course, a hypothetical future ranking jump will not help you get a job.


I do understand this. I genuinely thought A&M had potential to move up in rank tier-wise quickly. As they seem to be investing a lot and went up 38 ranks in one year.


The key question for you really is, not how fast they can improve, but if they can, in the next 2 years, become on-par with SMU and UH. That seems highly unlikely. In 20 years? Sure. But not soon enough for it to make a difference for you.

arielsm23
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby arielsm23 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:07 pm

emkay625 wrote:
arielsm23 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
arielsm23 wrote: I just said that the rankings improved which correlates to some sort of improvement, mostly admissions standards. Which I imagine will eventually through the years pay off in the job market.


This is, again, not accurate.

Look, rankings matter. They do. But they matter in a different way than you appear to think they do.

When looking at school rankings, you need to look in blocks. There are the T14 schools (and all the little jockeying and infighting that comes with them). Those are the schools that don't really tie you down to a specific region of the country. They're followed by the other six schools that make up the T20 (give or take a few). Now, you start to get tied down to a region. Vanderbilt, for example, doesn't mean that you'll definitely work in the South after school, but there's a damn good chance that's where you'll end up.

Once you go down to the top 50, you start to get more and more regional, and by the top 100, you will be working in the same state, if not the same city, as your law school.

So when you get out of the T20, the rankings don't mean anything, because USNWR only ranks nationally. SMU might rank higher than DePaul, but someone at DePaul has a better chance in Chicago than in Texas (and vice-versa). So it doesn't matter if Texas A&M jumps up an absurd number of ranks. It's still in a lower tier. If it didn't jump over any Texas schools to get to its current spot, that doesn't help you.

And of course, a hypothetical future ranking jump will not help you get a job.


I do understand this. I genuinely thought A&M had potential to move up in rank tier-wise quickly. As they seem to be investing a lot and went up 38 ranks in one year.


The key question for you really is, not how fast they can improve, but if they can, in the next 2 years, become on-par with SMU and UH. That seems highly unlikely. In 20 years? Sure. But not soon enough for it to make a difference for you.


Right, that does seem highly unlikely. I suppose, I sort of wondered if the market was good enough in DFW that there were enough jobs to go around. A couple of years ago, DFW was the largest market in the country that only had one law school actually within the city, probably why A&M saw Weslayan as worth an investment. But I guess no market is that good.

BigZuck
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby BigZuck » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:39 pm

The door to big law will be shut before you even take a class.

It absolutely, 100% will be shut.

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Clearly
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby Clearly » Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:53 am

BigZuck wrote:The door to big law will be shut before you even take a class.

It absolutely, 100% will be shut.

favabeansoup
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby favabeansoup » Sat Apr 30, 2016 7:38 pm

OP, I work in Dallas. I understand a lot of these advice here may seem a little insulting and rude, but honestly it is true. Do not go to Texas A&M, especially if you are not getting a much more significant to full scholarship. The debt will greatly affect your life, you are likely to do depressing types of legal work after, and your degree won't really be respected be the rest of the Texas legal community.

Dallas employers have never heard of A&M law school and know nothing about the quality of the graduates, Dallas isn't close to as big of a legal market as you think it is, especially when you compare it to other cities like NYC or LA or Chicago, hell even Houston is substantially bigger. So no, there are not enough jobs to go around for A&M grads, and the jobs that are available clearly go to UT/SMU/ and maybe UH grads before someone would think about tapping a Texas A&M grad. Even then they would need to do incredibly well to have a shot at any halfway decent job that isn't high volume parasitic personal injury work.

I don't know your age or circumstances, but you need to consider your whole future here. A&M may very well be improving, but you shouldn't ever go to a school in the hopes it will become good 10+years down the line. Take a year or two and go pursue other jobs. See if you really do want to become a lawyer and if that is your passion. Many don't do this and regret choosing this career path. Then come back and retake the LSAT and do better (I'm confident you will, nerves are something that can be handled). Even if you do slightly better you can go to UH or SMU, possibly with several scholarships. Those schools will open up 10x more doors for your entire LIFE as a lawyer in Texas than A&M ever will.

New law schools are almost always a bad investment for the first 10 years or so. Alumni are incredibly important in hiring graduates and building a professional network. Other law schools will have several alumni in leadership positions at firms or leaders in respective bar sections, while A&M won't for at least several years given how new it is. It needs much more time to develop into a school that someone without a full ride should consider. The only successful new law school is UCI, and that took a ton of work and connection pulling to get right.

eagle2a
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby eagle2a » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:10 pm

favabeansoup wrote:OP, I work in Dallas. I understand a lot of these advice here may seem a little insulting and rude, but honestly it is true. Do not go to Texas A&M, especially if you are not getting a much more significant to full scholarship. The debt will greatly affect your life, you are likely to do depressing types of legal work after, and your degree won't really be respected be the rest of the Texas legal community.

Dallas employers have never heard of A&M law school and know nothing about the quality of the graduates, Dallas isn't close to as big of a legal market as you think it is, especially when you compare it to other cities like NYC or LA or Chicago, hell even Houston is substantially bigger. So no, there are not enough jobs to go around for A&M grads, and the jobs that are available clearly go to UT/SMU/ and maybe UH grads before someone would think about tapping a Texas A&M grad. Even then they would need to do incredibly well to have a shot at any halfway decent job that isn't high volume parasitic personal injury work.

I don't know your age or circumstances, but you need to consider your whole future here. A&M may very well be improving, but you shouldn't ever go to a school in the hopes it will become good 10+years down the line. Take a year or two and go pursue other jobs. See if you really do want to become a lawyer and if that is your passion. Many don't do this and regret choosing this career path. Then come back and retake the LSAT and do better (I'm confident you will, nerves are something that can be handled). Even if you do slightly better you can go to UH or SMU, possibly with several scholarships. Those schools will open up 10x more doors for your entire LIFE as a lawyer in Texas than A&M ever will.

New law schools are almost always a bad investment for the first 10 years or so. Alumni are incredibly important in hiring graduates and building a professional network. Other law schools will have several alumni in leadership positions at firms or leaders in respective bar sections, while A&M won't for at least several years given how new it is. It needs much more time to develop into a school that someone without a full ride should consider. The only successful new law school is UCI, and that took a ton of work and connection pulling to get right.


You think someone below median at SMU has a shot of landing a job (any full time bar passage required job) I'll likely be below median at the end of this first year and wondering whether I should continue or drop.

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Dr. Nefario
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby Dr. Nefario » Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:26 pm

eagle2a wrote:You think someone below median at SMU has a shot of landing a job (any full time bar passage required job) I'll likely be below median at the end of this first year and wondering whether I should continue or drop.


It'll probably be tough. OCI is basically out, but you can get a job. Get your grades up 2L and its gonna be a hustle game for you. Networking will be key. Maybe reevaluate why you wanted law school, what your goals are, what you can achieve. If you have enough motivation, the hustle game is possible.

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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby eagle2a » Sat Apr 30, 2016 10:27 pm

Dr. Nefario wrote:
eagle2a wrote:You think someone below median at SMU has a shot of landing a job (any full time bar passage required job) I'll likely be below median at the end of this first year and wondering whether I should continue or drop.


It'll probably be tough. OCI is basically out, but you can get a job. Get your grades up 2L and its gonna be a hustle game for you. Networking will be key. Maybe reevaluate why you wanted law school, what your goals are, what you can achieve. If you have enough motivation, the hustle game is possible.


When you say hustle, what exactly does that entail?

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Dr. Nefario
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby Dr. Nefario » Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:11 pm

eagle2a wrote:When you say hustle, what exactly does that entail?

Get out and network, take advantage of every opportunity your school offers or you hear of, follow up with the contacts you make, informational interviews/1on1 meetings, part-time work during the school year if you can find something that could pan out, clinic work, anything you can do that will help you or advance your job prospects. It becomes a game of outworking people on that front. SMU only has roughly 20% or so biglaw if I remember correctly. But employment is like 65% at graduation. The 40% that isn't biglaw can easily be you if you play your cards right. Seek out and follow advice in the employment thread. Those people will lead you in the direction you need to go. Don't get too discouraged yet. And if you have motivation, definitely don't drop.

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Grond
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby Grond » Sat Apr 30, 2016 11:12 pm

eagle2a wrote:
Dr. Nefario wrote:
eagle2a wrote:You think someone below median at SMU has a shot of landing a job (any full time bar passage required job) I'll likely be below median at the end of this first year and wondering whether I should continue or drop.


It'll probably be tough. OCI is basically out, but you can get a job. Get your grades up 2L and its gonna be a hustle game for you. Networking will be key. Maybe reevaluate why you wanted law school, what your goals are, what you can achieve. If you have enough motivation, the hustle game is possible.


When you say hustle, what exactly does that entail?


When was the last time you went to the Belo?

favabeansoup
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby favabeansoup » Sun May 01, 2016 12:04 am

eagle2a wrote:You think someone below median at SMU has a shot of landing a job (any full time bar passage required job) I'll likely be below median at the end of this first year and wondering whether I should continue or drop.


If you are still a 1L, there is definitely a lot of time to turn your grades around and get a great job. Once you get out of the T14 + UT in Texas, most kids actually don't get their jobs through OCI. Lots of people work at smaller firms 2L summer that don't give expectations of hiring, and then usually find firms hiring entry level sometime during their 3L year.

So sure, you most likely aren't getting Dallas biglaw 2L summer, but there's a lot of smaller to mid-sized shops in Dallas who love SMU kids. SMU has a really good reputation in the city, as far as what I've seen. You need to use the alumni base, research people in firms/practice areas that you would be interested in, and literally cold email them asking them for advice or maybe a phone call/coffee if they are available.

It feels so weird and awkward and dumb, trust me I know exactly how that feels, but it is completely necessary when you don't have great grades to fall back on. Everyone knows what you are doing is looking for a job, not "advice", but people who are nice and have the time will talk with you and help you in a lot of different ways. Alumni love talking to students, and people want to see students from their school succeed, because it makes their own degree worth more. People will remember you if you send in an application, sometimes people will direct your application along with their recommendation to the recruiting people, sometimes people just invite you back to the office right then and suddenly you have a callback interview without realizing what just happened (happens all the freaking time).

If I recall, there are some pretty good networking guides on this forum somewhere that state the above much more clearly,

I can't underscore how important this is. If you don't have the grades, networking is everything. It's hard and awkward and weird, but it's also absolutely worth it.

A@M_or_bust
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby A@M_or_bust » Sun May 01, 2016 12:31 am

lnh819 wrote:Have you considered that Texas A&M is all the way in Fort Worth? All those nice fancy Dallas internships and networking opportunities are going to be an hour away and taken mostly by SMU students, with a healthy network of UT/Baylor/Tech. You need to figure out what part of Texas you want to work in (Houston, Dallas, Austin, San Antonio) and then come back here and get help researching what schools place there.


I lawl hard when I see Baylor and Tech casually thrown in as having pull with "fancy Dallas internships."

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cron1834
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby cron1834 » Sun May 01, 2016 11:46 am

Weslayan sucks dude, don't go.

eagle2a
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Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby eagle2a » Sun May 01, 2016 2:08 pm

favabeansoup wrote:
eagle2a wrote:You think someone below median at SMU has a shot of landing a job (any full time bar passage required job) I'll likely be below median at the end of this first year and wondering whether I should continue or drop.


If you are still a 1L, there is definitely a lot of time to turn your grades around and get a great job. Once you get out of the T14 + UT in Texas, most kids actually don't get their jobs through OCI. Lots of people work at smaller firms 2L summer that don't give expectations of hiring, and then usually find firms hiring entry level sometime during their 3L year.

So sure, you most likely aren't getting Dallas biglaw 2L summer, but there's a lot of smaller to mid-sized shops in Dallas who love SMU kids. SMU has a really good reputation in the city, as far as what I've seen. You need to use the alumni base, research people in firms/practice areas that you would be interested in, and literally cold email them asking them for advice or maybe a phone call/coffee if they are available.

It feels so weird and awkward and dumb, trust me I know exactly how that feels, but it is completely necessary when you don't have great grades to fall back on. Everyone knows what you are doing is looking for a job, not "advice", but people who are nice and have the time will talk with you and help you in a lot of different ways. Alumni love talking to students, and people want to see students from their school succeed, because it makes their own degree worth more. People will remember you if you send in an application, sometimes people will direct your application along with their recommendation to the recruiting people, sometimes people just invite you back to the office right then and suddenly you have a callback interview without realizing what just happened (happens all the freaking time).

If I recall, there are some pretty good networking guides on this forum somewhere that state the above much more clearly,

I can't underscore how important this is. If you don't have the grades, networking is everything. It's hard and awkward and weird, but it's also absolutely worth it.


1. Sorry for hijacking your thread OP
2. Thanks for the advise/info guys. I've been emailing a ton of firms in the practice area I want to get into about summer internships. Do you think I should mention in the emails that I'd be willing to work for free just to gain experience?




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