Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
arielsm23
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:24 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby arielsm23 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:09 pm

emkay625 wrote:OP here is my advice: contact 3-4 graduates from A&M on linkedin and ask if they're willing to speak candidly with you about their experience. Then make a decision.


That's a good idea. I will do. I went to an admitted student event but they're always to staged. I will. Thank you.

User avatar
deadpanic
Posts: 1214
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2009 5:09 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby deadpanic » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:39 pm

I think everyone here is guiding you in the right direction, but is not being as forthright about Texas A&M.

You have a 99.00% chance of not getting a big law job. This is so far from a possibility you need to write it off right away.

You have only a 46.00% chance of getting a legal job at all, and that does not mean a good job. Your best option would be gunning for a local prosecutor gig from day one, which is difficult because (1) hiring is not lock-step; due to funding from the gov't, people leaving randomly, you never know when they will have an opening; (2) no alumni base from A&M law; (3) they are extremely competitive since a lot of law students want to be the trial lawyer in the courtroom. There are just not many openings for people that want them, and DA offices are not going to strictly hire people direct from law school since they have no meaningful trial experience.

Your other option, at best, is private practice in family law, personal injury, or criminal defense (or all). The problem with these are that your salary is either really low (~25-40k), or you may not have any salary at all, and they put you on a "eat what you kill" deal where you can use all their resources, but have to bring in your own clients to make $. That is an issue because your clients in this line of work are your every day Joe the Plumber that cannot afford a big legal bill or, in a personal injury case, you have to luck into some great case. That is why you all see them advertising so much. The feds loaning you that money will not care that you are not making it rain when they come knocking when payment is due.

The debt you are talking about is likely 75k+ for maybe getting a gig with some crooked criminal defense solo practitioner.

Do not do it. Either seek another career or retake.

User avatar
mornincounselor
Posts: 1228
Joined: Sun Apr 21, 2013 1:37 am

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby mornincounselor » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:48 pm

A 3.3 does not have to hold you back. You say you cannot retake the LSAT, but you are lying. If you did already take it three times (and aren't just telling us that in an attempt to get us to give you bad advice) all that means is you have to wait a bit to retake it.

What methods did you use to study for the test? I cannot stress enough how amazing the LSAT Prep forum on this website is. If you have not gone over every practice test, done at least 25 full timed 5-section exams with proper breaks and proctor instructions (there's an app for that) and revisited every single question you have ever gotten wrong -- then you can still improve.

It's a bit like an obese person saying they cannot run a half marathon. Sure, they cannot immediately accomplish it, but to insist it cannot possibly be done and to make a career life-destroying decision like attending Texas Wesleyan instead of putting the work in is silly.

The LSAT is as much a test of stubborn determination as it is a test of logic. Be stubborn about maximizing your potential, not about attending Johnie Football Law.

arielsm23
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:24 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby arielsm23 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:46 pm

mornincounselor wrote:A 3.3 does not have to hold you back. You say you cannot retake the LSAT, but you are lying. If you did already take it three times (and aren't just telling us that in an attempt to get us to give you bad advice) all that means is you have to wait a bit to retake it.

What methods did you use to study for the test? I cannot stress enough how amazing the LSAT Prep forum on this website is. If you have not gone over every practice test, done at least 25 full timed 5-section exams with proper breaks and proctor instructions (there's an app for that) and revisited every single question you have ever gotten wrong -- then you can still improve.

It's a bit like an obese person saying they cannot run a half marathon. Sure, they cannot immediately accomplish it, but to insist it cannot possibly be done and to make a career life-destroying decision like attending Texas Wesleyan instead of putting the work in is silly.

The LSAT is as much a test of stubborn determination as it is a test of logic. Be stubborn about maximizing your potential, not about attending Johnie Football Law.


I'm actually slightly offended by this..I'm not lying. Jesus. I took the LSAT three times, scoring a 155 on my diagnostic, and then 155 every time I took it. I took Randall's class in Austin..if you're from austin you'd know it, many UT/St.Eds students take him. It is comprehensive so yes I prepared quite a bit. I took probably 40 practice lsats and I'd say on about half of these towards the end, I scored 160-162 consistently. Unfortunately on test day, I do not perform well, due to nerves I suppose. I don't do bad on tests in general, just the LSAT really. Two of the times I took the LSAT were after I took the course. So after all of this prep and studying for months I don't think I would do better retaking in a year from now. I suppose you are right, I was incorrect in saying I can't retake but I'm not lying I would just have to wait two admissions cycles and I do not think my score would improve. It's not due to a lack of effort or preparation for the LSAT, it's test day nerves I suppose. Regardless, you make good points in that I probably should not attend but I don't understand the assumption that I'm just not putting any thought or effort into this. I had genuine reasons for thinking a&m is not the worst decision in the world and again there's no reason for me to believe that the school isn't improving but sure I will probably not attend. Although I will say, its not Texas weslayan anymore it's a&m, there's no need to be that snobby about it. It has different faculty, more funding, reduced tuition, higher admissions standards. I realize it's not there yet but those things are true regardless and its just petty to keep calling it weslayan when it's not. But look I get what you're saying. Thanks because I genuinely believe that youre tryig to be helpful, but I think you can chill a bit and not be so insulting.

arielsm23
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:24 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby arielsm23 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:50 pm

deadpanic wrote:I think everyone here is guiding you in the right direction, but is not being as forthright about Texas A&M.

You have a 99.00% chance of not getting a big law job. This is so far from a possibility you need to write it off right away.

You have only a 46.00% chance of getting a legal job at all, and that does not mean a good job. Your best option would be gunning for a local prosecutor gig from day one, which is difficult because (1) hiring is not lock-step; due to funding from the gov't, people leaving randomly, you never know when they will have an opening; (2) no alumni base from A&M law; (3) they are extremely competitive since a lot of law students want to be the trial lawyer in the courtroom. There are just not many openings for people that want them, and DA offices are not going to strictly hire people direct from law school since they have no meaningful trial experience.

Your other option, at best, is private practice in family law, personal injury, or criminal defense (or all). The problem with these are that your salary is either really low (~25-40k), or you may not have any salary at all, and they put you on a "eat what you kill" deal where you can use all their resources, but have to bring in your own clients to make $. That is an issue because your clients in this line of work are your every day Joe the Plumber that cannot afford a big legal bill or, in a personal injury case, you have to luck into some great case. That is why you all see them advertising so much. The feds loaning you that money will not care that you are not making it rain when they come knocking when payment is due.

The debt you are talking about is likely 75k+ for maybe getting a gig with some crooked criminal defense solo practitioner.

Do not do it. Either seek another career or retake.


Appreciate it, again the employment rate is not 46% it's 60% and again I see no reason why this would not improve. But regardless, you're right the majority of those jobs probably suck. Thanks, it's just not there yet. I get it.

User avatar
crumb cake
Posts: 380
Joined: Tue Jun 23, 2015 7:36 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby crumb cake » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:04 pm

arielsm23 wrote:
mornincounselor wrote:A 3.3 does not have to hold you back. You say you cannot retake the LSAT, but you are lying. If you did already take it three times (and aren't just telling us that in an attempt to get us to give you bad advice) all that means is you have to wait a bit to retake it.

What methods did you use to study for the test? I cannot stress enough how amazing the LSAT Prep forum on this website is. If you have not gone over every practice test, done at least 25 full timed 5-section exams with proper breaks and proctor instructions (there's an app for that) and revisited every single question you have ever gotten wrong -- then you can still improve.

It's a bit like an obese person saying they cannot run a half marathon. Sure, they cannot immediately accomplish it, but to insist it cannot possibly be done and to make a career life-destroying decision like attending Texas Wesleyan instead of putting the work in is silly.

The LSAT is as much a test of stubborn determination as it is a test of logic. Be stubborn about maximizing your potential, not about attending Johnie Football Law.


I'm actually slightly offended by this..I'm not lying. Jesus. I took the LSAT three times, scoring a 155 on my diagnostic, and then 155 every time I took it. I took Randall's class in Austin..if you're from austin you'd know it, many UT/St.Eds students take him. It is comprehensive so yes I prepared quite a bit. I took probably 40 practice lsats and I'd say on about half of these towards the end, I scored 160-162 consistently. Unfortunately on test day, I do not perform well, due to nerves I suppose. I don't do bad on tests in general, just the LSAT really. Two of the times I took the LSAT were after I took the course. So after all of this prep and studying for months I don't think I would do better retaking in a year from now. I suppose you are right, I was incorrect in saying I can't retake but I'm not lying I would just have to wait two admissions cycles and I do not think my score would improve. It's not due to a lack of effort or preparation for the LSAT, it's test day nerves I suppose. Regardless, you make good points in that I probably should not attend but I don't understand the assumption that I'm just not putting any thought or effort into this. I had genuine reasons for thinking a&m is not the worst decision in the world and again there's no reason for me to believe that the school isn't improving but sure I will probably not attend. Although I will say, its not Texas weslayan anymore it's a&m, there's no need to be that snobby about it. It has different faculty, more funding, reduced tuition, higher admissions standards. I realize it's not there yet but those things are true regardless and its just petty to keep calling it weslayan when it's not. But look I get what you're saying. Thanks because I genuinely believe that youre tryig to be helpful, but I think you can chill a bit and not be so insulting.


At least you tried to raise your score, unlike a lot of others. Unfortunately, that doesn't really change the advice. If you can't raise your LSAT score I wouldn't attend law school. Texas A&M's job stats are dismal.

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/texasam/2014/

User avatar
p1921
Posts: 171
Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2014 2:50 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby p1921 » Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:55 pm

I would not advise anyone go to A&M, unless they have a job lined up and have been told they need a JD and to pass the bar and it's a lock. I'm at SMU and in DFW, you will be competing against SMU, UT, a handful of Baylor/UH grads, maybe a few Tech grads, and T14. The 46% chance cited earlier, if true (I haven't looked it up, so I have no idea what the exact number is), is unlikely to go up when you factor all this in.

Also, I'm not saying this to hurt your feelings, but if you did not perform well on the LSAT because you do not do especially well on important tests, I would seriously consider if you should go to law school at all. Why do you want to be a lawyer? Is it worth taking on this amount of risk and debt? Only you can answer this. Best of luck.

arielsm23
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:24 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby arielsm23 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:31 am

p1921 wrote:I would not advise anyone go to A&M, unless they have a job lined up and have been told they need a JD and to pass the bar and it's a lock. I'm at SMU and in DFW, you will be competing against SMU, UT, a handful of Baylor/UH grads, maybe a few Tech grads, and T14. The 46% chance cited earlier, if true (I haven't looked it up, so I have no idea what the exact number is), is unlikely to go up when you factor all this in.

Also, I'm not saying this to hurt your feelings, but if you did not perform well on the LSAT because you do not do especially well on important tests, I would seriously consider if you should go to law school at all. Why do you want to be a lawyer? Is it worth taking on this amount of risk and debt? Only you can answer this. Best of luck.


I appreciate the response..The 46% stat is not true. Again it is 60% which is not great obviously, I'm sure that many of those jobs suck as well but technically its not 46%. Yes, I realize that its not a great prospect. I suppose I was under the impression that the transition from Weslayan to A&M and the steps A&M are taking to improve the school are leading to, or potentially in the next three years, leading to better job stats. Like some sort of breakthrough for the school, so I was hoping I was getting a potentially good deal on tuition at a school on the raise. Although that seems to not be the case, it seems that everyone says that its still viewed as Weslayan which is a shame.

And it doesn't hurt my feelings..I know I'm capable of scoring in the 160s consistently so I don't feel incapable of grasping law school material. I've actually never done bad on tests in general, just the actual administrations of the lsat. It could be bad luck, I think the nerves I got during the lsat were unprecedented for me. So I don't know, I just feel like the fact that I got a 155 twice doesn't preclude me from succeeding in law school although the bad prospects and being waitlisted by good schools like SMU/BC definitely makes me reevaluate. I am sure I want to be a lawyer, unfortunately many schools don't lead to that outcome..

stretchedtoothin
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby stretchedtoothin » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:38 am

OP if you are okay with a 60% chance of legal employment (although many of the jobs contained in that 60% admittedly suck), just go to Texas A&M instead of sitting out for a year and retaking. This is obviously a personal decision you have to make, and you've basically heard all the reasons why you shouldn't go already.

Foghornleghorn
Posts: 123
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2014 10:05 am

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby Foghornleghorn » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:05 am

I see no reason why this would not improve


http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... jobs/2014/

Less than a quarter of the class has secured unemployment by the time they graduate. Would you go to a loan shark, take out 130k and bet it twice? You'd have the same odds of success, and you wouldn't have to wait 3 years to find out the result.

Look up the vale of tears thread. Read every page. There's a 50 percent chance you'll be there. You are playing a dangerous game with your career and life.

User avatar
Glacial
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:47 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby Glacial » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:12 am

arielsm23 wrote:Another thing, I'm not exactly set on big law. I know A&M has very few big law attorneys. But I would rather the door not be absolutely shut on big law prospects just from going to A&M. I really care about just finding a solid job at all. I do not want to be a law school horror story and be unemployed entirely.


OP, how do you feel about tax lax? I'm not from Texas and know nothing about the legal market there, but I know people who did well at Tier 3 law schools and then (to offset that low rank) went on to do a Tax LLM at one of the "Big 3" - NYU, GULC and UF. Eventually, that helped them land decent jobs and pay off their debt. But that's a very long shot. Are you willing to take those chances: good grades as JD + 1 year LLM/more debt? Besides, doing tax law can be a living hell.

stretchedtoothin
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby stretchedtoothin » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:28 am

Glacial wrote:
arielsm23 wrote:Another thing, I'm not exactly set on big law. I know A&M has very few big law attorneys. But I would rather the door not be absolutely shut on big law prospects just from going to A&M. I really care about just finding a solid job at all. I do not want to be a law school horror story and be unemployed entirely.


OP, how do you feel about tax lax? I'm not from Texas and know nothing about the legal market there, but I know people who did well at Tier 3 law schools and then (to offset that low rank) went on to do a Tax LLM at one of the "Big 3" - NYU, GULC and UF. Eventually, that helped them land decent jobs and pay off their debt. But that's a very long shot. Are you willing to take those chances: good grades as JD + 1 year LLM/more debt? Besides, doing tax law can be a living hell.

why even make this point?

Hikikomorist
Posts: 6981
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby Hikikomorist » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:34 am

arielsm23 wrote:
p1921 wrote:I would not advise anyone go to A&M, unless they have a job lined up and have been told they need a JD and to pass the bar and it's a lock. I'm at SMU and in DFW, you will be competing against SMU, UT, a handful of Baylor/UH grads, maybe a few Tech grads, and T14. The 46% chance cited earlier, if true (I haven't looked it up, so I have no idea what the exact number is), is unlikely to go up when you factor all this in.

Also, I'm not saying this to hurt your feelings, but if you did not perform well on the LSAT because you do not do especially well on important tests, I would seriously consider if you should go to law school at all. Why do you want to be a lawyer? Is it worth taking on this amount of risk and debt? Only you can answer this. Best of luck.


I appreciate the response..The 46% stat is not true. Again it is 60% which is not great obviously, I'm sure that many of those jobs suck as well but technically its not 46%. Yes, I realize that its not a great prospect. I suppose I was under the impression that the transition from Weslayan to A&M and the steps A&M are taking to improve the school are leading to, or potentially in the next three years, leading to better job stats. Like some sort of breakthrough for the school, so I was hoping I was getting a potentially good deal on tuition at a school on the raise. Although that seems to not be the case, it seems that everyone says that its still viewed as Weslayan which is a shame.

And it doesn't hurt my feelings..I know I'm capable of scoring in the 160s consistently so I don't feel incapable of grasping law school material. I've actually never done bad on tests in general, just the actual administrations of the lsat. It could be bad luck, I think the nerves I got during the lsat were unprecedented for me. So I don't know, I just feel like the fact that I got a 155 twice doesn't preclude me from succeeding in law school although the bad prospects and being waitlisted by good schools like SMU/BC definitely makes me reevaluate. I am sure I want to be a lawyer, unfortunately many schools don't lead to that outcome..

Wait, how many times have you taken the LSAT?

User avatar
Glacial
Posts: 33
Joined: Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:47 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby Glacial » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:35 am

stretchedtoothin wrote:
Glacial wrote:
arielsm23 wrote:Another thing, I'm not exactly set on big law. I know A&M has very few big law attorneys. But I would rather the door not be absolutely shut on big law prospects just from going to A&M. I really care about just finding a solid job at all. I do not want to be a law school horror story and be unemployed entirely.


OP, how do you feel about tax lax? I'm not from Texas and know nothing about the legal market there, but I know people who did well at Tier 3 law schools and then (to offset that low rank) went on to do a Tax LLM at one of the "Big 3" - NYU, GULC and UF. Eventually, that helped them land decent jobs and pay off their debt. But that's a very long shot. Are you willing to take those chances: good grades as JD + 1 year LLM/more debt? Besides, doing tax law can be a living hell.

why even make this point?


Just a suggestion since OP isn't thrilled about retaking LSAT.

arielsm23
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:24 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby arielsm23 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:46 am

Foghornleghorn wrote:
I see no reason why this would not improve


http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/ ... jobs/2014/

Less than a quarter of the class has secured unemployment by the time they graduate. Would you go to a loan shark, take out 130k and bet it twice? You'd have the same odds of success, and you wouldn't have to wait 3 years to find out the result.

Look up the vale of tears thread. Read every page. There's a 50 percent chance you'll be there. You are playing a dangerous game with your career and life.


You guys have convinced me not to do it pretty much. I do understand. But again, I think that a lot of you guys are missing the point of why I'd consider a tier 3 school, that's like ranked 111, with poor employment rate, because I just think it's not your typical tier 3 school. I mean again, the employment rate is not 46% it's 60%. Which is again, bad, but is also improvement. I mean they are investing a lot on faculty, facilities, cut tuition, making it harder to get into stuff like that. Texas A&M is just a very large very rich system and I think they're making the right steps and I don't think they bought the school just to let it sit there as weslayan like the worst law school in Texas. I mean schools with comparable numbers are like for profits and St John's, random schools like that and they simply don't have potential whereas a&m does. I mean I agree the investment is not worth it but I think if you're really familiar with Texas a&M and the steps they did/are taking you'd understand why I thought it worth giving some thought. I mean they passed tech, St Mary's, South Texas in rank after being open for two years. I agree for the most part, I just wish that some.would take some of this into context before just shitting on the idea entirely and finding it ridiculous that I even think of these things as factors. I agree on the whole that it's too soon and not worth the risk but I don't think that looking at employment numbers from law school transparency that are two years old tell the whole story of this school In particular. This is why I was curious as to how the school is regarded by the actual legal community in dfw, now that it was a&m. I seem to have gotten my answer though from the SMU students and DFW people, it seems to not be well regarded. So thanks to those from the area who didn't treat this post like it was the dumbest question in the world.
Last edited by arielsm23 on Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

arielsm23
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:24 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby arielsm23 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 1:50 am

Hikikomorist wrote:
arielsm23 wrote:
p1921 wrote:I would not advise anyone go to A&M, unless they have a job lined up and have been told they need a JD and to pass the bar and it's a lock. I'm at SMU and in DFW, you will be competing against SMU, UT, a handful of Baylor/UH grads, maybe a few Tech grads, and T14. The 46% chance cited earlier, if true (I haven't looked it up, so I have no idea what the exact number is), is unlikely to go up when you factor all this in.

Also, I'm not saying this to hurt your feelings, but if you did not perform well on the LSAT because you do not do especially well on important tests, I would seriously consider if you should go to law school at all. Why do you want to be a lawyer? Is it worth taking on this amount of risk and debt? Only you can answer this. Best of luck.


I appreciate the response..The 46% stat is not true. Again it is 60% which is not great obviously, I'm sure that many of those jobs suck as well but technically its not 46%. Yes, I realize that its not a great prospect. I suppose I was under the impression that the transition from Weslayan to A&M and the steps A&M are taking to improve the school are leading to, or potentially in the next three years, leading to better job stats. Like some sort of breakthrough for the school, so I was hoping I was getting a potentially good deal on tuition at a school on the raise. Although that seems to not be the case, it seems that everyone says that its still viewed as Weslayan which is a shame.

And it doesn't hurt my feelings..I know I'm capable of scoring in the 160s consistently so I don't feel incapable of grasping law school material. I've actually never done bad on tests in general, just the actual administrations of the lsat. It could be bad luck, I think the nerves I got during the lsat were unprecedented for me. So I don't know, I just feel like the fact that I got a 155 twice doesn't preclude me from succeeding in law school although the bad prospects and being waitlisted by good schools like SMU/BC definitely makes me reevaluate. I am sure I want to be a lawyer, unfortunately many schools don't lead to that outcome..

Wait, how many times have you taken the LSAT?


3 times, 3 155's. Low 160s on practice tests. Dunno I studied a lot and mess up on test day is the short version. Id have to wait a year to take it again, doubt I'd improve, and in total wait two cycles to begin law school. Hence my not being fond of that idea.

arielsm23
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:24 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby arielsm23 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:00 am

Glacial wrote:
stretchedtoothin wrote:
Glacial wrote:
arielsm23 wrote:Another thing, I'm not exactly set on big law. I know A&M has very few big law attorneys. But I would rather the door not be absolutely shut on big law prospects just from going to A&M. I really care about just finding a solid job at all. I do not want to be a law school horror story and be unemployed entirely.


OP, how do you feel about tax lax? I'm not from Texas and know nothing about the legal market there, but I know people who did well at Tier 3 law schools and then (to offset that low rank) went on to do a Tax LLM at one of the "Big 3" - NYU, GULC and UF. Eventually, that helped them land decent jobs and pay off their debt. But that's a very long shot. Are you willing to take those chances: good grades as JD + 1 year LLM/more debt? Besides, doing tax law can be a living hell.

why even make this point?


Just a suggestion since OP isn't thrilled about retaking LSAT.


I actually appreciate the suggestion. I personally have experienced this as well. I work at fairly successful corporate/IP firm in Austin as a legal assistant where one of the lawyers does quite well for himself after going to Oklahoma city law and then Georgetown for his tax llm. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about tax law to know whether I'd be good enough or enjoy it enough to actually make a career out of it.

User avatar
Clearly
Posts: 4167
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby Clearly » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:08 am

You have a misconception that job stats are influenced by usnwr they aren't, at all. Usnwr is basically influenced primarily by lsat and gpa, and reputation score. Reputation score is probably influenced by job placement, so to the extent usnwr and jobs correlate, thru do so in the opposite relationship than you think. Literally 0 attorneys look at usnwr and say wow this school improved we should now hire them. The only thing that happened with usnwr was they prob picked a median up a point and jumped a bunch of schools. The thought that this will lead to better job placement is laughable.

User avatar
Clearly
Posts: 4167
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 4:09 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby Clearly » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:14 am

Also the other posters point is a good one. If the official lsat freaked you out, wait till you're in a 1L final. I'm smooth under pressure, didn't choke on the lsat, and I still forget how to think for the first ten minutes of a LS exam lol

stretchedtoothin
Posts: 151
Joined: Thu Oct 15, 2015 2:10 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby stretchedtoothin » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:15 am

arielsm23 wrote:
Glacial wrote:
stretchedtoothin wrote:
Glacial wrote:
arielsm23 wrote:Another thing, I'm not exactly set on big law. I know A&M has very few big law attorneys. But I would rather the door not be absolutely shut on big law prospects just from going to A&M. I really care about just finding a solid job at all. I do not want to be a law school horror story and be unemployed entirely.


OP, how do you feel about tax lax? I'm not from Texas and know nothing about the legal market there, but I know people who did well at Tier 3 law schools and then (to offset that low rank) went on to do a Tax LLM at one of the "Big 3" - NYU, GULC and UF. Eventually, that helped them land decent jobs and pay off their debt. But that's a very long shot. Are you willing to take those chances: good grades as JD + 1 year LLM/more debt? Besides, doing tax law can be a living hell.

why even make this point?


Just a suggestion since OP isn't thrilled about retaking LSAT.


I actually appreciate the suggestion. I personally have experienced this as well. I work at fairly successful corporate/IP firm in Austin as a legal assistant where one of the lawyers does quite well for himself after going to Oklahoma city law and then Georgetown for his tax llm. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about tax law to know whether I'd be good enough or enjoy it enough to actually make a career out of it.


You're also not good at handling the pressures of test-taking, which is why it would be dumb to bet that you'd do well enough at Texas A&M to be offered admission to UF/NYU/GULC Tax program later on. The suggested alternative to retaking the LSAT is just laughably bad. OP, either retake the LSAT or go to Texas A&M, but you shouldn't try to look for people on this forum to support your belief that attending TAMU at that price (and arguably any price) is not a terrible decision.

arielsm23
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:24 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby arielsm23 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:15 am

Clearly wrote:You have a misconception that job stats are influenced by usnwr they aren't, at all. Usnwr is basically influenced primarily by lsat and gpa, and reputation score. Reputation score is probably influenced by job placement, so to the extent usnwr and jobs correlate, thru do so in the opposite relationship than you think. Literally 0 attorneys look at usnwr and say wow this school improved we should now hire them. The only thing that happened with usnwr was they prob picked a median up a point and jumped a bunch of schools. The thought that this will lead to better job placement is laughable.


I don't have that misconception. I just said that the rankings improved which correlates to some sort of improvement, mostly admissions standards. Which I imagine will eventually through the years pay off in the job market. You don't have to be a condescending dick.

arielsm23
Posts: 43
Joined: Thu Apr 28, 2016 5:24 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby arielsm23 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:20 am

stretchedtoothin wrote:
arielsm23 wrote:
Glacial wrote:
stretchedtoothin wrote:
Glacial wrote:
arielsm23 wrote:Another thing, I'm not exactly set on big law. I know A&M has very few big law attorneys. But I would rather the door not be absolutely shut on big law prospects just from going to A&M. I really care about just finding a solid job at all. I do not want to be a law school horror story and be unemployed entirely.


OP, how do you feel about tax lax? I'm not from Texas and know nothing about the legal market there, but I know people who did well at Tier 3 law schools and then (to offset that low rank) went on to do a Tax LLM at one of the "Big 3" - NYU, GULC and UF. Eventually, that helped them land decent jobs and pay off their debt. But that's a very long shot. Are you willing to take those chances: good grades as JD + 1 year LLM/more debt? Besides, doing tax law can be a living hell.

why even make this point?


Just a suggestion since OP isn't thrilled about retaking LSAT.


I actually appreciate the suggestion. I personally have experienced this as well. I work at fairly successful corporate/IP firm in Austin as a legal assistant where one of the lawyers does quite well for himself after going to Oklahoma city law and then Georgetown for his tax llm. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about tax law to know whether I'd be good enough or enjoy it enough to actually make a career out of it.


You're also not good at handling the pressures of test-taking, which is why it would be dumb to bet that you'd do well enough at Texas A&M to be offered admission to UF/NYU/GULC Tax program later on. The suggested alternative to retaking the LSAT is just laughably bad. OP, either retake the LSAT or go to Texas A&M, but you shouldn't try to look for people on this forum to support your belief that attending TAMU at that price (and arguably any price) is not a terrible decision.


I'm not betting on getting a tax law llm. I'm being polite and its also not an impossible option for some people. I'm not planning on it though. I don't have a preconceived belief that it is not a terrible decision, I had a question about a school that has been a&m for three years and how it's regarded in the DFW community. That's all.

User avatar
poptart123
Posts: 1108
Joined: Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:31 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby poptart123 » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:31 am

.
Last edited by poptart123 on Tue Apr 11, 2017 9:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
MT Cicero
Posts: 616
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2012 7:40 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby MT Cicero » Fri Apr 29, 2016 9:34 am

It seems like you're leaning toward taking the advice to retake, even if that means taking a break. Please do. A few things on the hard numbers:

1. Yes, the full-time long-term employment statistics went up for the class of 2015. But, not counting solos and unknowns (I think LST subtracts those), here are the numbers for the last three years:

2015: Employment 56.8%, Big Law 1.8%
2014: Employment 46.1%, Big Law 1.3%
2013: Employment 38.1%, Big Law 0.6%

So, yes, the "trend" appears to be better. BUT, the number of people working in firms sized 2-10 has gone up from 37 (2013), to 57 (2014), to 69 (2015). Now maybe everyone is at 8-10 lawyer shops doing $35-45K/year work and will have solid, if non-lucrative, careers. Or maybe graduates are hanging shingles together. I don't know. But those 2-10 numbers are a bit scary to me when we're counting them into a 56.8% employment rate (that's more than half of those employed).

2. Texas A&M's scholarship info on its 509 should give you pause:

2014-2015 Academic Year, 110 entered with scholarships, 47 had them reduced or eliminated
2013-2014 Academic Year, 89 entered with scholarships, 48 had them reduced or eliminated
2012-2013 Academic Year, 137 entered with scholarships, 84 had them reduced or eliminated

3. They have shrunk class size by a good bit lately, so maybe they're trying to do the right thing and build the school's brand the right way. They went from 243 to 192 to 133 over the last 3 years.

But realize that them working with a 10 or 20-year plan doesn't affect you. That's being generous to them and saying there's a plan to build a brand slowly. They could be playing the US News game by getting their LSAT/GPA median up so they can get apps up based on US News (which is what so many 0Ls still look at). And there's nothing keeping them from ramping their numbers back up if they feel like they need to for one reason or another.

User avatar
trmckenz
Posts: 123
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2014 7:22 pm

Re: Thoughts on Texas A&M Law

Postby trmckenz » Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:04 am

arielsm23 wrote:
trmckenz wrote:FWIW I work in Dallas biglaw as a patent agent and am applying to law schools for this fall as well. My bosses have advised me to not go to A&M simply because 'it's not there yet.' If you want a shot at biglaw and have no prior work experience in a law firm, you should go to at least a T1 (top 50) school. Biglaw interviews are typically gained by having a sufficient combination of three things: prior work experience, law school name/rank, and grades/class rank. In Dallas biglaw, A&M will not give you the second one, whereas SMU will.


Hm, see this is what I was looking for.. Well, I'm a legal assistant at a law firm in Austin. I doubt it would help me much. Yeah, I don't want it to absolutely preclude me from even getting an interview or consideration. Thank you, I appreciate the response. Are you going to go to SMU?


I am headed to SMU this fall unless I get off the waitlist at GW.

With your legal assistant experience, I have no doubt that you will be fluent in interviews. The hardest part for you, at A&M at least, would be getting the interviews with the big firms you said you wanted. Only the very top of the class at A&M (top 10% probably) will get interviews at the big firms in Dallas. The Fort Worth firms might be more lenient, but the pay is less there too. For Dallas biglaw, you really need to be at SMU (top 25% probably) or UT (above median probably).

Are you patent bar eligible?




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests