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Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 6:57 pm
by RedPurpleBlue
Monday wrote:
Nebby wrote:



You used Northwestern's 2015 ABA Employment stats and not the 2016 stats.

The list should look like this:


Berkeley: 19.7% (65)
NYU: 16.3% (79)
Michigan: 12.8% (42)
Chicago: 12.1% (26)
Stanford: 12% (22)
Yale: 11.3% (23)
Harvard: 10.9% (65)
UVA: 10.3% (34)
NU: 9.6% (24)
Columbia: 8.9% (35)
Penn: 7.4% (19)
Cornell: 7.1% (13)
Duke: 6.7% (15)

NU moves from 13th place to 9th in PI/Gov't.

Does the number of grads working in PI mean that school is a better choice for PI work?

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:21 am
by Burneo
I feel like that sounds like a silly question, but I'm wondering if those T14s that don't graduate as many who are going into PI work might actually really be actively wanting more who are 100% committed. My undergrad is social work with two years working with an immigration law firm, undergrad internships with PI orgs, so my resume does prove my continuing interest in PI. I'd ideally like to work for the ACLU/SPLC/policy research orgs/similar. GPA 3.9, LSAT 172, non-URM. Trying to figure out if I should bother with Yale-and-lower PI schools and focus on Berkeley/NYU and others who send more to PI, or whether my 100% commitment to PI might make me more attractive to Yale etc. than my stats/non-URM status would otherwise justify? Hoping there are folks who can give me some insight into whether being totally committed to PI would make me more attractive to T14s that don't seem to send as many to PI. Related question -- does not sending as many to PI mean maybe there aren't as many PI opportunities at those schools? Thanks for any insight anyone can offer.

Re: Does the number of grads working in PI mean that school is a better choice for PI work?

Posted: Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:34 am
by Nebby
Burneo wrote:I feel like that sounds like a silly question, but I'm wondering if those T14s that don't graduate as many who are going into PI work might actually really be actively wanting more who are 100% committed. My undergrad is social work with two years working with an immigration law firm, undergrad internships with PI orgs, so my resume does prove my continuing interest in PI. I'd ideally like to work for the ACLU/SPLC/policy research orgs/similar. GPA 3.9, LSAT 172, non-URM. Trying to figure out if I should bother with Yale-and-lower PI schools and focus on Berkeley/NYU and others who send more to PI, or whether my 100% commitment to PI might make me more attractive to Yale etc. than my stats/non-URM status would otherwise justify? Hoping there are folks who can give me some insight into whether being totally committed to PI would make me more attractive to T14s that don't seem to send as many to PI. Related question -- does not sending as many to PI mean maybe there aren't as many PI opportunities at those schools? Thanks for any insight anyone can offer.

(1) I don't think it'll give you much of an advantage except at the margins.
(2) All T14s have plenty of PI opportunities. Some are better than others in nuanced ways. One thing that I advocate to aspiring PI law students is the value of experiential learning. Some schools (like CLS) allow you to earn up to 30 non-graded credits of experiential learning (externships, field work, clinics, etc.) (83 credits req to graduate) others offer much less.

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:43 am
by InterLaw
Silly question, but I am not an expert... Jobs in International Ogrs (like UN Legal Department or even other positions probably considered "JD advantage") are classified in stats as PI/Gov? On H website I found a reference to such employment area in the PI links, but I am not sure about it!

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 9:48 am
by Nebby
InterLaw wrote:Silly question, but I am not an expert... Jobs in International Ogrs (like UN Legal Department or even other positions probably considered "JD advantage") are classified in stats as PI/Gov? On H website I found a reference to such employment area in the PI links, but I am not sure about it!

They're considered PI. Gov't is solely municipal/state/federal US gov't jobs.

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:00 am
by InterLaw
Nebby wrote:
InterLaw wrote:Silly question, but I am not an expert... Jobs in International Ogrs (like UN Legal Department or even other positions probably considered "JD advantage") are classified in stats as PI/Gov? On H website I found a reference to such employment area in the PI links, but I am not sure about it!

They're considered PI. Gov't is solely municipal/state/federal US gov't jobs.


Thank you! Do you have experience of guys landed in Int Orgs after Law School? I thought that probably you need some experience as practicing lawyer before getting there (if you want a lawyer job) right?

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:04 am
by cavalier1138
InterLaw wrote:
Nebby wrote:
InterLaw wrote:Silly question, but I am not an expert... Jobs in International Ogrs (like UN Legal Department or even other positions probably considered "JD advantage") are classified in stats as PI/Gov? On H website I found a reference to such employment area in the PI links, but I am not sure about it!

They're considered PI. Gov't is solely municipal/state/federal US gov't jobs.


Thank you! Do you have experience of guys landed in Int Orgs after Law School? I thought that probably you need some experience as practicing lawyer before getting there (if you want a lawyer job) right?


Depends on the school. HYSCCN students can get fellowships with a number of competitive international NGOs. But yes, if you want to work for an organization like the UN, you need a degree from a top school, exceptional experience, and a lot of luck.

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:04 am
by Nebby
InterLaw wrote:
Nebby wrote:
InterLaw wrote:Silly question, but I am not an expert... Jobs in International Ogrs (like UN Legal Department or even other positions probably considered "JD advantage") are classified in stats as PI/Gov? On H website I found a reference to such employment area in the PI links, but I am not sure about it!

They're considered PI. Gov't is solely municipal/state/federal US gov't jobs.


Thank you! Do you have experience of guys landed in Int Orgs after Law School? I thought that probably you need some experience as practicing lawyer before getting there (if you want a lawyer job) right?

I don't know of anyone who obtained entry-level jobs at the UN, unless they had background in the UN or similar organizations prior to law school. I do know a lot of CLS students who obtained summer or semester-long internships at the UN. CLS has a partnership with the UN for externships.

Basically, if you want, it's possible to obtain UN internships, so long as you go to a T14 school.

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:56 am
by InterLaw
cavalier1138 wrote:Depends on the school. HYSCCN students can get fellowships with a number of competitive international NGOs. But yes, if you want to work for an organization like the UN, you need a degree from a top school, exceptional experience, and a lot of luck.


Perfectly aware of the "luck" part, but dreaming is free...

Nebby wrote:Basically, if you want, it's possible to obtain UN internships, so long as you go to a T14 school.


That's the plan... I have a good shot, but it's conditional to the money I can get...

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:44 am
by eck456
InterLaw wrote:
Nebby wrote:
InterLaw wrote:Silly question, but I am not an expert... Jobs in International Ogrs (like UN Legal Department or even other positions probably considered "JD advantage") are classified in stats as PI/Gov? On H website I found a reference to such employment area in the PI links, but I am not sure about it!

They're considered PI. Gov't is solely municipal/state/federal US gov't jobs.


Thank you! Do you have experience of guys landed in Int Orgs after Law School? I thought that probably you need some experience as practicing lawyer before getting there (if you want a lawyer job) right?


It's not a silly question because it's actually crazy complicated and unfun and crazy competitive...one thing to note is that under the UN system and promotion rules (and these extend to many other organizations who take their notice from the UN) a JD isn't actually considered a masters degree since the only country that doesn't offer law degrees in undergrad (that I know of) is the US. Since you need a masters to get promoted in the UN past entry level, this means if you're serious about working in the intl governance system you need to think about pursuing either a dual degree in something like MPP, MPA in a related focus, or enroll in an LLM program (something like NU's LLM in international human rights). Otherwise even if you get a JD-required or adjacent job at one of the big international orgs, you'll be prohibited from being able to move up in it on the normal schedule.

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 7:25 am
by InterLaw
eck456 wrote:
InterLaw wrote:
Nebby wrote:
InterLaw wrote:Silly question, but I am not an expert... Jobs in International Ogrs (like UN Legal Department or even other positions probably considered "JD advantage") are classified in stats as PI/Gov? On H website I found a reference to such employment area in the PI links, but I am not sure about it!

They're considered PI. Gov't is solely municipal/state/federal US gov't jobs.


Thank you! Do you have experience of guys landed in Int Orgs after Law School? I thought that probably you need some experience as practicing lawyer before getting there (if you want a lawyer job) right?


It's not a silly question because it's actually crazy complicated and unfun and crazy competitive...one thing to note is that under the UN system and promotion rules (and these extend to many other organizations who take their notice from the UN) a JD isn't actually considered a masters degree since the only country that doesn't offer law degrees in undergrad (that I know of) is the US. Since you need a masters to get promoted in the UN past entry level, this means if you're serious about working in the intl governance system you need to think about pursuing either a dual degree in something like MPP, MPA in a related focus, or enroll in an LLM program (something like NU's LLM in international human rights). Otherwise even if you get a JD-required or adjacent job at one of the big international orgs, you'll be prohibited from being able to move up in it on the normal schedule.


I am absolutely interested in double degrees, finally I found someone who understands why! Unfortunately on this forum the general idea about double degrees is: "useless". I think it depends on what's your career path... UVA JD + JHU SAIS Master of Arts in IR is my target outcome right now!

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:17 pm
by Marvel.DC.23457
Which law school would you attend from the list below for Big-Law /
Lay prestige, other factors, etc., etc., etc. ? I appreciate responses. Thank you.

- University of Chicago

- Harvard

- University of Pennsylvania

- Stanford

- Columbia

- New York University

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:18 pm
by cavalier1138
Marvel.DC.23457 wrote:Which law school would you attend from the list below for Big-Law /
Lay prestige, other factors, etc., etc., etc. ? I appreciate responses. Thank you.

- University of Chicago

- Harvard

- University of Pennsylvania

- Stanford

- Columbia

- New York University


This is the PI thread, and those are ridiculous/subjective factors.

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:27 pm
by Marvel.DC.23457
Thank you.