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Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:21 am
by cavalier1138
DCfilterDC wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I have never heard of anyone negotiating LRAP. I don't think it's at all plausible.


You can negotiate LRAP. Some schools have "LRAP scholarships," which are basically expanded LRAP programs that you are awarded on the front end (as an incoming student). Say the income cap is 50k, some schools have LRAP scholarships that they award to incoming students that have income caps of 100k.


Can you link to an example? Are they scholarships? Or special guarantees on your loans?

Anyway, outside of those situations, you really don't have the ability to tell Columbia, "I'll come, but only if I get a guarantee that I can receive LRAP for [x] job with [y] salary."

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:38 am
by Nebby
Hand wrote:Also Nebby, the Duke # for 2016 in the OP is incorrect and the link doesn't work, they have 19/224 grads in public interest or government, see https://law.duke.edu/sites/default/file ... 2016v2.pdf

GULC has 159/610 (26.1%) for the c/o 2016, see https://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ ... mary-2.pdf

11 + 4

I only do FT/LT PI + Gov

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:41 am
by Hand
Nebby wrote:
Hand wrote:Also Nebby, the Duke # for 2016 in the OP is incorrect and the link doesn't work, they have 19/224 grads in public interest or government, see https://law.duke.edu/sites/default/file ... 2016v2.pdf

GULC has 159/610 (26.1%) for the c/o 2016, see https://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ ... mary-2.pdf

11 + 4

I only do FT/LT PI + Gov

ohhh ok in that case GULC has 138 it seems (22.6%)

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:35 am
by Kummel
cavalier1138 wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I have never heard of anyone negotiating LRAP. I don't think it's at all plausible.


You can negotiate LRAP. Some schools have "LRAP scholarships," which are basically expanded LRAP programs that you are awarded on the front end (as an incoming student). Say the income cap is 50k, some schools have LRAP scholarships that they award to incoming students that have income caps of 100k.


Can you link to an example? Are they scholarships? Or special guarantees on your loans?

Anyway, outside of those situations, you really don't have the ability to tell Columbia, "I'll come, but only if I get a guarantee that I can receive LRAP for [x] job with [y] salary."


Enhanced LRAP Fellowships

Several Enhanced LRAP Fellowships have been established at Columbia Law School, and are awarded to students who have demonstrated dedication to and exceptional promise for leadership in public interest law. These fellowships are designed to supplement the benefits of LRAP, and can cover as much as 100% of eligible debt service for loans borrowed up to the cost of Law School tuition for fellows whose annual income does not exceed $100,000. Fellows are selected at the time of their admission to the Law School (no separate application is necessary) and at graduation. Please contact the Social Justice Initiatives Office for more information.


http://www.law.columbia.edu/financial-a ... st-lawyers

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:45 am
by Nebby
DCfilterDC wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I have never heard of anyone negotiating LRAP. I don't think it's at all plausible.


You can negotiate LRAP. Some schools have "LRAP scholarships," which are basically expanded LRAP programs that you are awarded on the front end (as an incoming student). Say the income cap is 50k, some schools have LRAP scholarships that they award to incoming students that have income caps of 100k.


Can you link to an example? Are they scholarships? Or special guarantees on your loans?

Anyway, outside of those situations, you really don't have the ability to tell Columbia, "I'll come, but only if I get a guarantee that I can receive LRAP for [x] job with [y] salary."


Enhanced LRAP Fellowships

Several Enhanced LRAP Fellowships have been established at Columbia Law School, and are awarded to students who have demonstrated dedication to and exceptional promise for leadership in public interest law. These fellowships are designed to supplement the benefits of LRAP, and can cover as much as 100% of eligible debt service for loans borrowed up to the cost of Law School tuition for fellows whose annual income does not exceed $100,000. Fellows are selected at the time of their admission to the Law School (no separate application is necessary) and at graduation. Please contact the Social Justice Initiatives Office for more information.


http://www.law.columbia.edu/financial-a ... st-lawyers

True, but they're not that much different than the 100k everyone can get with one of the combined LRAP/PAYE packages

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:49 am
by Kummel
Nebby wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I have never heard of anyone negotiating LRAP. I don't think it's at all plausible.


You can negotiate LRAP. Some schools have "LRAP scholarships," which are basically expanded LRAP programs that you are awarded on the front end (as an incoming student). Say the income cap is 50k, some schools have LRAP scholarships that they award to incoming students that have income caps of 100k.


Can you link to an example? Are they scholarships? Or special guarantees on your loans?

Anyway, outside of those situations, you really don't have the ability to tell Columbia, "I'll come, but only if I get a guarantee that I can receive LRAP for [x] job with [y] salary."


Enhanced LRAP Fellowships

Several Enhanced LRAP Fellowships have been established at Columbia Law School, and are awarded to students who have demonstrated dedication to and exceptional promise for leadership in public interest law. These fellowships are designed to supplement the benefits of LRAP, and can cover as much as 100% of eligible debt service for loans borrowed up to the cost of Law School tuition for fellows whose annual income does not exceed $100,000. Fellows are selected at the time of their admission to the Law School (no separate application is necessary) and at graduation. Please contact the Social Justice Initiatives Office for more information.


http://www.law.columbia.edu/financial-a ... st-lawyers

True, but they're not that much different than the 100k everyone can get with one of the combined LRAP/PAYE packages


It's very very different. Significantly more security, more professions covered, entire loan amount paid vs. just PAYE. If you leave qualifying employment after 5 years your debt is half paid off and you don't owe anything back to CLS. If you leave the LRAP/PAYE program after 5 years, you don't owe anything back to CLS but your loan amount has ballooned and you're fucked.

Also some of these fellowships are 5 years pay-off instead of 10

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:53 am
by Nebby
DCfilterDC wrote:
Nebby wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I have never heard of anyone negotiating LRAP. I don't think it's at all plausible.


You can negotiate LRAP. Some schools have "LRAP scholarships," which are basically expanded LRAP programs that you are awarded on the front end (as an incoming student). Say the income cap is 50k, some schools have LRAP scholarships that they award to incoming students that have income caps of 100k.


Can you link to an example? Are they scholarships? Or special guarantees on your loans?

Anyway, outside of those situations, you really don't have the ability to tell Columbia, "I'll come, but only if I get a guarantee that I can receive LRAP for [x] job with [y] salary."


Enhanced LRAP Fellowships

Several Enhanced LRAP Fellowships have been established at Columbia Law School, and are awarded to students who have demonstrated dedication to and exceptional promise for leadership in public interest law. These fellowships are designed to supplement the benefits of LRAP, and can cover as much as 100% of eligible debt service for loans borrowed up to the cost of Law School tuition for fellows whose annual income does not exceed $100,000. Fellows are selected at the time of their admission to the Law School (no separate application is necessary) and at graduation. Please contact the Social Justice Initiatives Office for more information.


http://www.law.columbia.edu/financial-a ... st-lawyers

True, but they're not that much different than the 100k everyone can get with one of the combined LRAP/PAYE packages


It's very very different. Significantly more security, more professions covered, entire loan amount paid vs. just PAYE. If you leave qualifying employment after 5 years your debt is half paid off and you don't owe anything back to CLS. If you leave the LRAP/PAYE program after 5 years, you don't owe anything back to CLS but your loan amount has ballooned and you're fucked.

Also some of these fellowships are 5 years pay-off instead of 10

Did you get one or do you know anyone else with one? I have never heard of these upfront LRAP offers before.

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:54 am
by Kummel
Nebby wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
Nebby wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I have never heard of anyone negotiating LRAP. I don't think it's at all plausible.


You can negotiate LRAP. Some schools have "LRAP scholarships," which are basically expanded LRAP programs that you are awarded on the front end (as an incoming student). Say the income cap is 50k, some schools have LRAP scholarships that they award to incoming students that have income caps of 100k.


Can you link to an example? Are they scholarships? Or special guarantees on your loans?

Anyway, outside of those situations, you really don't have the ability to tell Columbia, "I'll come, but only if I get a guarantee that I can receive LRAP for [x] job with [y] salary."


Enhanced LRAP Fellowships

Several Enhanced LRAP Fellowships have been established at Columbia Law School, and are awarded to students who have demonstrated dedication to and exceptional promise for leadership in public interest law. These fellowships are designed to supplement the benefits of LRAP, and can cover as much as 100% of eligible debt service for loans borrowed up to the cost of Law School tuition for fellows whose annual income does not exceed $100,000. Fellows are selected at the time of their admission to the Law School (no separate application is necessary) and at graduation. Please contact the Social Justice Initiatives Office for more information.


http://www.law.columbia.edu/financial-a ... st-lawyers

True, but they're not that much different than the 100k everyone can get with one of the combined LRAP/PAYE packages


It's very very different. Significantly more security, more professions covered, entire loan amount paid vs. just PAYE. If you leave qualifying employment after 5 years your debt is half paid off and you don't owe anything back to CLS. If you leave the LRAP/PAYE program after 5 years, you don't owe anything back to CLS but your loan amount has ballooned and you're fucked.

Also some of these fellowships are 5 years pay-off instead of 10

Did you get one or do you know anyone else with one? I have never heard of these upfront LRAP offers before.


No for getting one, but also haven't asked around. Doesn't change the fact that it's still a significant LRAP boost. I do know people who received the fellowships as 3Ls

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:57 am
by Nebby
Yeah I know people in my class that received them as 3Ls, but that's because they applied when we were 3Ls.

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:09 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
I suspect a lot of schools with less robust LRAPs aren't going to offer something like that (doesn't Columbia already offer a couple different options?).

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:36 pm
by Nebby
A. Nony Mouse wrote:I suspect a lot of schools with less robust LRAPs aren't going to offer something like that (doesn't Columbia already offer a couple different options?).

Yes they offer 3 options outside of the enhanced LRAPs

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 1:53 pm
by Earlskies
Are clerkships helpful for PI folks? Specifically, should the clerkship placement numbers be a factor in choosing a school if I'm interested in environmental law at a nonprofit?

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 2:08 pm
by Nebby
Earlskies wrote:Are clerkships helpful for PI folks? Specifically, should the clerkship placement numbers be a factor in choosing a school if I'm interested in environmental law at a nonprofit?

Clerkship placement should be a factor, but only one of many. You can gain entry-level employment in environmental law jobs from any T14. More important factors should be whether the school has good experiential, hands-on learning opportunities, financial aid considerations/LRAP, geographic location, etc. Here's some literature for you to review to gain a better understanding of careers in environmental law: https://law.yale.edu/system/files/area/ ... Public.pdf

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:35 pm
by Earlskies
Nebby wrote:
Earlskies wrote:Are clerkships helpful for PI folks? Specifically, should the clerkship placement numbers be a factor in choosing a school if I'm interested in environmental law at a nonprofit?

Clerkship placement should be a factor, but only one of many. You can gain entry-level employment in environmental law jobs from any T14. More important factors should be whether the school has good experiential, hands-on learning opportunities, financial aid considerations/LRAP, geographic location, etc. Here's some literature for you to review to gain a better understanding of careers in environmental law: https://law.yale.edu/system/files/area/ ... Public.pdf

Is geographic location a big concern when we start talking about t-13/14/whateveritscallednow?

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:37 pm
by Nebby
Earlskies wrote:
Nebby wrote:
Earlskies wrote:Are clerkships helpful for PI folks? Specifically, should the clerkship placement numbers be a factor in choosing a school if I'm interested in environmental law at a nonprofit?

Clerkship placement should be a factor, but only one of many. You can gain entry-level employment in environmental law jobs from any T14. More important factors should be whether the school has good experiential, hands-on learning opportunities, financial aid considerations/LRAP, geographic location, etc. Here's some literature for you to review to gain a better understanding of careers in environmental law: https://law.yale.edu/system/files/area/ ... Public.pdf

Is geographic location a big concern when we start talking about t-13/14/whateveritscallednow?

Not a huge concern but one factor to consider. If I wanted to work in California, I'd choose Berkeley over NYU, for instance.

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 3:42 pm
by Earlskies
Nebby wrote:
Earlskies wrote:
Nebby wrote:
Earlskies wrote:Are clerkships helpful for PI folks? Specifically, should the clerkship placement numbers be a factor in choosing a school if I'm interested in environmental law at a nonprofit?

Clerkship placement should be a factor, but only one of many. You can gain entry-level employment in environmental law jobs from any T14. More important factors should be whether the school has good experiential, hands-on learning opportunities, financial aid considerations/LRAP, geographic location, etc. Here's some literature for you to review to gain a better understanding of careers in environmental law: https://law.yale.edu/system/files/area/ ... Public.pdf

Is geographic location a big concern when we start talking about t-13/14/whateveritscallednow?

Not a huge concern but one factor to consider. If I wanted to work in California, I'd choose Berkeley over NYU, for instance.

Gotcha. Also thanks for the above resource.

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:06 pm
by RedPurpleBlue
Nebby wrote: careers in environmental law: https://law.yale.edu/system/files/area/ ... Public.pdf


Yo, Nebby. Does Yale have more of these awesome career guides for other fields of law. If so, could you point me to the page where they are all located? I searched around for a bit on the YLS website but couldn't seem to find them.

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:32 pm
by Nebby
RedPurpleBlue wrote:
Nebby wrote: careers in environmental law: https://law.yale.edu/system/files/area/ ... Public.pdf


Yo, Nebby. Does Yale have more of these awesome career guides for other fields of law. If so, could you point me to the page where they are all located? I searched around for a bit on the YLS website but couldn't seem to find them.

Good Guy Greg CLS compiled them all here: http://www.law.columbia.edu/social-just ... blications

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:27 am
by Nebby
Now that all the data is out I'll update this once work dies down

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:33 am
by Kummel
Nebby wrote:Columbia Law School
CLS has tons of opportunities for out-of-classroom learning experiences. Up to 21 30 credit hours at CLS can be non-graded credits, which means that you can take up to 21 30 hours of clinics, externships, and fieldwork. In addition, CLS offers a full-time, semester-long externship in the federal government in Washington, DC, and it also offers human rights semesters abroad. SPIN (Student Public Interest Network) is the main PI student organization where PI students of all goals can socialize and meet fellow students.

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:52 am
by Nebby
DCfilterDC wrote:
Nebby wrote:Columbia Law School
CLS has tons of opportunities for out-of-classroom learning experiences. Up to 21 30 credit hours at CLS can be non-graded credits, which means that you can take up to 21 30 hours of clinics, externships, and fieldwork. In addition, CLS offers a full-time, semester-long externship in the federal government in Washington, DC, and it also offers human rights semesters abroad. SPIN (Student Public Interest Network) is the main PI student organization where PI students of all goals can socialize and meet fellow students.

Damn, that's new, right? That's awesome! 30 hours is so much! This is great news for anyone who wants to gain a lot of hands-on experience in law school

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 2:07 pm
by Nebby
Nebby wrote:Now that all the data is out I'll update this once work dies down

Apologies this is taking so long. Work hasn't slowed!

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:10 pm
by TheKisSquared
Nebby wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
Nebby wrote:Columbia Law School
CLS has tons of opportunities for out-of-classroom learning experiences. Up to 21 30 credit hours at CLS can be non-graded credits, which means that you can take up to 21 30 hours of clinics, externships, and fieldwork. In addition, CLS offers a full-time, semester-long externship in the federal government in Washington, DC, and it also offers human rights semesters abroad. SPIN (Student Public Interest Network) is the main PI student organization where PI students of all goals can socialize and meet fellow students.

Damn, that's new, right? That's awesome! 30 hours is so much! This is great news for anyone who wants to gain a lot of hands-on experience in law school


Do HP/P/F classes count as 'ungraded'? (eg LPW/Moot courts)

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 1:15 pm
by Kummel
TheKisSquared wrote:
Nebby wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
Nebby wrote:Columbia Law School
CLS has tons of opportunities for out-of-classroom learning experiences. Up to 21 30 credit hours at CLS can be non-graded credits, which means that you can take up to 21 30 hours of clinics, externships, and fieldwork. In addition, CLS offers a full-time, semester-long externship in the federal government in Washington, DC, and it also offers human rights semesters abroad. SPIN (Student Public Interest Network) is the main PI student organization where PI students of all goals can socialize and meet fellow students.

Damn, that's new, right? That's awesome! 30 hours is so much! This is great news for anyone who wants to gain a lot of hands-on experience in law school


Do HP/P/F classes count as 'ungraded'? (eg LPW/Moot courts)


No they don't count towards the 30. Even credit/no credit (reading groups) don't count towards the 30. Journal work/RA'ing/TA'ing/externship/clinic count towards the 30, basically anything that's not an actual class

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Posted: Sun May 07, 2017 1:15 am
by Monday
.