Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
ood's_brother
Posts: 111
Joined: Mon Feb 13, 2017 1:23 pm

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby ood's_brother » Fri Feb 24, 2017 10:55 am

Good start. I wish it had more T14 testimonials and less complaining about why someone's future Alma mater isn't on here

User avatar
Stylnator
Posts: 503
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2014 4:26 pm

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby Stylnator » Fri Feb 24, 2017 3:01 pm

Why is there absolutely nothing in here about government work? PI is WAY more than just Skadden and EJW. As a 0L I find it way more helpful to know about the quality and types of jobs students in PI receive rather than what percentage of the class choose to go into the field.

Please more testimonials about government work: DOJ, State/Federal PD, DA, etc.

User avatar
Nebby
amateur huffpo
Posts: 28396
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:23 pm

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby Nebby » Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:02 pm

hey if there are T14 grads that went into government post-grad I am more than happy to take their testimonial. Those testimonials are just the TLSers I knew and who agreed to write one, and they all happened to be doing non-profit.

PI is much more than skadden and EJW. I just chose those two arbitrarily because they're often used by T14 students to springboard their PI career.

It is more difficult finding data to analyze with regard to government entry level. If y'all think there are more things to add then let me know where to find it and quantify it.

AMS2001
Posts: 4
Joined: Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:03 am

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby AMS2001 » Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:44 am

Chicago Public interest person here.

Students who want public interest at UChicago, get it. Students who want their preferred clinic at UChicago, get it. They also get into all the relevant public interest classes they want. We also have guaranteed summer public interest funding both 1L and 2L, and a really good LRAP program. Our low numbers of students in public interest has more to do with culture and self-selection than with the school's ability to get you a public interest job.

Argument for: tons of untapped resources in the form of AMAZING clinical faculty and opportunities, easily attainable school-funded public interest fellowships; lots of attention in the form of mentors, awards, leadership roles in student orgs, etc.

Argument against: small number of public interest students at the law school, which can lead people to second-guess the public interest career path and end up doing OCI. The students that came here fully committed to public interest stayed on that career path, the ones that were only considering it jumped on the Biglaw ship really early on.

Those are my two cents.

User avatar
Nebby
amateur huffpo
Posts: 28396
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:23 pm

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby Nebby » Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:46 am

AMS2001 wrote:Chicago Public interest person here.

Students who want public interest at UChicago, get it. Students who want their preferred clinic at UChicago, get it. They also get into all the relevant public interest classes they want. We also have guaranteed summer public interest funding both 1L and 2L, and a really good LRAP program. Our low numbers of students in public interest has more to do with culture and self-selection than with the school's ability to get you a public interest job.

Argument for: tons of untapped resources in the form of AMAZING clinical faculty and opportunities, easily attainable school-funded public interest fellowships; lots of attention in the form of mentors, awards, leadership roles in student orgs, etc.

Argument against: small number of public interest students at the law school, which can lead people to second-guess the public interest career path and end up doing OCI. The students that came here fully committed to public interest stayed on that career path, the ones that were only considering it jumped on the Biglaw ship really early on.

Those are my two cents.

Thanks. If you want to add more, feel free to pm me a more detailed testimonial and I'll post it in OP. If you don't think there's anything else to add then I'll post what this.

User avatar
Nebby
amateur huffpo
Posts: 28396
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:23 pm

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby Nebby » Tue Feb 28, 2017 12:02 pm

Stylnator wrote:Why is there absolutely nothing in here about government work? PI is WAY more than just Skadden and EJW. As a 0L I find it way more helpful to know about the quality and types of jobs students in PI receive rather than what percentage of the class choose to go into the field.

Please more testimonials about government work: DOJ, State/Federal PD, DA, etc.

On the quality bit, the reason I limit this to T14 because generally the quality of PI post-grad options are best at T14. Think: National or regional nonprofits, DOJ Honors, Skadden/EJW fellws, etc.

User avatar
Kummel
Posts: 3325
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:55 pm

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby Kummel » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:21 pm

Can we please change this to PI Megathread for T13s?

grades??
Posts: 984
Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:55 pm

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby grades?? » Tue Mar 07, 2017 1:32 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:Can we please change this to PI Megathread for T13s?


Agreed, please change the title. It is now the T13.

User avatar
Nebby
amateur huffpo
Posts: 28396
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:23 pm

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby Nebby » Wed Apr 05, 2017 9:57 am

bump as new data arises

User avatar
half moon
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:01 am

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby half moon » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:20 pm

Sorry if this has been asked before, but what is the practical effect for a PI/Gov person of a school's LRAP not covering undergrad and/or prior grad school loans? If you go on income-based repayment, aren't all federal loans grouped together regardless of what school you took them out for, and the combined payment for all loans based on your income? If that's the case, then even schools that don't technically cover prior loans in their LRAP will still give you enough money to pay for them because they give you enough for an income-based repayment regardless of actual loan amount until they're forgiven through PSLF, right? Or is there something I'm missing here that would still require me to pay those prior loans out of pocket?

User avatar
Nebby
amateur huffpo
Posts: 28396
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:23 pm

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby Nebby » Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:37 pm

half moon wrote:If that's the case, then even schools that don't technically cover prior loans in their LRAP will still give you enough money to pay for them because they give you enough for an income-based repayment regardless of actual loan amount until they're forgiven through PSLF, right?

It depends on the program. In the case of CLS' LRAP, yes. I believe this would also be the case in similar LRAPs, such as HYS LRAPs.

I am on CLS's program where my benefit is calculated at the 10 year repayment schedule, but my actual loans (federal undergrad and law) are on PAYE. My benefit is more than my PAYE amount, therefore, even though CLS LRAP doesn't cover undergrad loans, it still covers the payments. After 10 years, when the CLS LRAP ends, I will have accumulated enough qualifying payments to then apply for PSLF and have the remaining debt forgiven.

Other LRAP's (such as most LRAPs in the lower T14) require you to be on PAYE and then your benefit is calculated at your PAYE (proportional to your law debt; so if 80% of your debt is law and PAYE amount is $100/month your LRAP benefit is $80/month).

User avatar
half moon
Posts: 99
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 9:01 am

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby half moon » Wed Apr 05, 2017 6:43 pm

Nebby wrote:Other LRAP's (such as most LRAPs in the lower T14) require you to be on PAYE and then your benefit is calculated at your PAYE (proportional to your law debt; so if 80% of your debt is law and PAYE amount is $100/month your LRAP benefit is $80/month).

Thanks, this was helpful! I'll be depositing at lower T14 soon-ish, and have been either waitlisted or rejected at all T6. Either way though, paying about 15% of PAYE for 10 years (my estimate of the prior school debt/law school debt ratio) seems very manageable.

User avatar
zot1
Posts: 4474
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:53 am

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby zot1 » Wed Apr 05, 2017 7:03 pm

UCI 35%.

User avatar
luckyirish13
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:45 pm

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby luckyirish13 » Thu Apr 06, 2017 3:57 pm

Is there a thread comparing the different LRAP's at the top 20 schools? I feel like that's an important consideration for anyone considering PI. Edit: Actually never mind there's a spreadsheet about this in the OP. Awesome!

Alexandros
Posts: 6478
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:46 am

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby Alexandros » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:36 pm

Numbers are so small they're essentially meaningless but, fwiw - average # Skadden Fellows divided by most recent class size*:
YLS = 3.57/203 = .0176
SLS = 2.14/183 = .0117
HLS = 5/585 = .00855
Penn = 1.57/258 = .00608
Chi = .86/186 = .00462
Berk = 1.00/278 = .00360
NYU = 1.71/485 = .00352
CLS = 1.43/413 = .00346
Mich = 1.14/354 = .00322
GULC = 1.14/652= .00175
UVA = .43/330= .00130
Duke = .29/224= .00129
NU = .14/288= .000486
Cornell = 0/184 = .000

*Obviously, this should be average class size from 2010 to 2016, but I was too lazy. May edit later but should be correct to a decent approximation barring huge variations in class sizes.

User avatar
Nebby
amateur huffpo
Posts: 28396
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:23 pm

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby Nebby » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:44 pm

Alexandros wrote:Numbers are so small they're essentially meaningless but, fwiw - average # Skadden Fellows divided by most recent class size*:
YLS = 3.57/203 = .0176
SLS = 2.14/183 = .0117
HLS = 5/585 = .00855
Penn = 1.57/258 = .00608
Chi = .86/186 = .00462
Berk = 1.00/278 = .00360
NYU = 1.71/485 = .00352
CLS = 1.43/413 = .00346
Mich = 1.14/354 = .00322
GULC = 1.14/652= .00175
UVA = .43/330= .00130
Duke = .29/224= .00129
NU = .14/288= .000486
Cornell = 0/184 = .000

*Obviously, this should be average class size from 2010 to 2016, but I was too lazy. May edit later but should be correct to a decent approximation barring huge variations in class sizes.

I don't know what this is supposed to signify

Alexandros
Posts: 6478
Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2016 4:46 am

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby Alexandros » Tue Apr 11, 2017 11:55 pm

Nebby wrote:
Alexandros wrote:Numbers are so small they're essentially meaningless but, fwiw - average # Skadden Fellows divided by most recent class size*:
YLS = 3.57/203 = .0176
SLS = 2.14/183 = .0117
HLS = 5/585 = .00855
Penn = 1.57/258 = .00608
Chi = .86/186 = .00462
Berk = 1.00/278 = .00360
NYU = 1.71/485 = .00352
CLS = 1.43/413 = .00346
Mich = 1.14/354 = .00322
GULC = 1.14/652= .00175
UVA = .43/330= .00130
Duke = .29/224= .00129
NU = .14/288= .000486
Cornell = 0/184 = .000

*Obviously, this should be average class size from 2010 to 2016, but I was too lazy. May edit later but should be correct to a decent approximation barring huge variations in class sizes.

I don't know what this is supposed to signify

Proportion vs. raw numbers thing.

I don't think this is very valuable because the numbers are so small & it's potentially misleading, but posting in case anyone finds it interesting for some reason.

Thank you for putting together this thread, by the way - Really helpful.

User avatar
luckyirish13
Posts: 208
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:45 pm

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby luckyirish13 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 4:00 am

I've been comparing LRAP options at different schools. It seems clear that choosing a school with a good LRAP is crucial to anyone who wants go go into PI, but I had a question about the process.

If one has reason to believe that their salary will not be covered by a schools LRAP (perhaps it's just over the schools maximum cutoff), would one be able to apply to their school for an individual exception to have the LRAP cover their salary?

Or another possible way of doing this would be in negotiations before attending. If someone says, "I will commit to your school on the condition that LRAP will cover me up to 80,000" when the school typically covers up to 70K, is that possible? Perhaps one could even negotiate LRAP benefits out of scholarship money, and say, "you offered me a 75% scholarship, but I would prefer to only have a 50% scholarship, but with a higher cap on LRAP benefits for when I graduate." Is this unheard of? Or even if it is, is it at least plausible?

Since LRAP can all but cover the cost of a student loan, with PSLF then forgiving the remainder after 10 years, it seems like if someone is really committed to going into PI, negotiating a strong LRAP is even more important than negotiating scholarship money, since scholarships rarely cover COA like loans do. One could go to a school on sticker as long as the LRAP is able to cover it, and be better off than going to a school with a full ride that doesn't cover COA. This is just a hypothetical, but theoretically wouldn't this be the case?

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse
Posts: 27276
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:40 am

I have never heard of anyone negotiating LRAP. I don't think it's at all plausible.

cavalier1138
Posts: 3770
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby cavalier1138 » Wed Apr 12, 2017 5:43 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I have never heard of anyone negotiating LRAP. I don't think it's at all plausible.

This.

LRAP is a standard program, not an individualized contract. If a school's LRAP won't cover the kind of work you want to do, then don't go there (unless it's free).

User avatar
Nebby
amateur huffpo
Posts: 28396
Joined: Sat Feb 01, 2014 12:23 pm

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby Nebby » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:08 am

luckyirish13 wrote:Since LRAP can all but cover the cost of a student loan, with PSLF then forgiving the remainder after 10 years, it seems like if someone is really committed to going into PI, negotiating a strong LRAP is even more important than negotiating scholarship money, since scholarships rarely cover COA like loans do. One could go to a school on sticker as long as the LRAP is able to cover it, and be better off than going to a school with a full ride that doesn't cover COA. This is just a hypothetical, but theoretically wouldn't this be the case?

You can't negotiate LRAP.

But to your question at the end, yes it is theoretically possible. For instance, my CLS LRAP covers all of my federal debt payments (undergrad and law) until it is forgiven with PSLF. That's a pretty good deal, and will leave me off financially better than if I went to a school with a worse LRAP (or not LRAP).

albanach
Posts: 1179
Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 10:05 pm

Re: Most Recent Public Interest/Government Employment @ T14 (Lots of Data ITT)

Postby albanach » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:23 am

Nebby wrote:
GFox345 wrote:Why have all jobs except for those that are Fulltime and Long Term been excluded? What is the rationale for this?

No one cares about part-time or short-term. They aren't good outcomes in almost all situations.


Does short term include 1 year school funded fellowships? Almost everyone I know from UVA who had a school-funded fellowship has transferred into a quality full-time position now.

User avatar
Hand
Posts: 3718
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 11:33 am

Re: Most Recent Public Interest/Government Employment @ T14 (Lots of Data ITT)

Postby Hand » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:26 am

albanach wrote:
Nebby wrote:
GFox345 wrote:Why have all jobs except for those that are Fulltime and Long Term been excluded? What is the rationale for this?

No one cares about part-time or short-term. They aren't good outcomes in almost all situations.

Does short term include 1 year school funded fellowships? Almost everyone I know from UVA who had a school-funded fellowship has transferred into a quality full-time position now.

Per the ABA forms, "A short-term position is one that has a definite term of less than one year. Thus, a clerkship that has a definite term of one year or more is not a short- term position." One-year positions count as long-term irrespective of their funding source.

User avatar
Hand
Posts: 3718
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 11:33 am

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby Hand » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:32 am

Also Nebby, the Duke # for 2016 in the OP is incorrect and the link doesn't work, they have 19/224 grads in public interest or government, see https://law.duke.edu/sites/default/file ... 2016v2.pdf

GULC has 159/610 (26.1%) for the c/o 2016, see https://www.law.georgetown.edu/careers/ ... mary-2.pdf

User avatar
Kummel
Posts: 3325
Joined: Fri Oct 03, 2014 11:55 pm

Re: Public Interest Megathread for T14s (employment data, resources, testimonials)

Postby Kummel » Wed Apr 12, 2017 10:11 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I have never heard of anyone negotiating LRAP. I don't think it's at all plausible.


You can negotiate LRAP. Some schools have "LRAP scholarships," which are basically expanded LRAP programs that you are awarded on the front end (as an incoming student). Say the income cap is 50k, some schools have LRAP scholarships that they award to incoming students that have income caps of 100k.




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google Adsense [Bot], principalagent and 4 guests