Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan Forum

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Rh1no

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Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by Rh1no » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:42 pm

Does anyone have any insight into this decision making process?

Columbia - 40k
Chicago - 60k
Duke - 135k
Cornell - 150k
Michigan - 120k

Considerations:
My parents are paying for rent/COL expenses
I'm an undergrad at Cornell and the thought of staying here for 3 more years is unappetizing
I want to eventually work in the Northeast
I visited Columbia and loved it, also should I consider contacting the financial aid office and trying to negotiate more money from Columbia?
want to work in private practice

Just wanted to know if anyone here has thoughts about these choices, thanks

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mt2165

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by mt2165 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 7:52 pm

You're not going to want to hear this, and I know ithaca sucks (I'm here too), but Cornell is definitely the right move for your goals and COA's. But you should definitely try and negotiate.

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existentialcrisis

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by existentialcrisis » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:03 pm

mt2165 wrote:You're not going to want to hear this, and I know ithaca sucks (I'm here too), but Cornell is definitely the right move for your goals and COA's. But you should definitely try and negotiate.
I don't think Duke would necessarily be indefensible here. Geographic preference is worth at least a little bit, and i feel like I've read somewhere that Cornell has slightly more expensive tuition.

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by jbagelboy » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:04 pm

CLS should match Chicago.

Seems like you come from some money if your folks have $70k to support you with. For people in your position, there's a little more flexibility. I think it comes down to Duke versus Columbia (if CLS increases to $60k+ aid). What will your total debt figures be and how comfortable are you with them? I would lean Duke.

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existentialcrisis

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by existentialcrisis » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:13 pm

jbagelboy wrote:CLS should match Chicago.

Seems like you come from some money if your folks have $70k to support you with. For people in your position, there's a little more flexibility. I think it comes down to Duke versus Columbia (if CLS increases to $60k+ aid). What will your total debt figures be and how comfortable are you with them? I would lean Duke.
I agree with the leaning Duke. CLS is definitely worth more than Duke, but I don't necessarily think 75k more.

Plus Duke's gonna win the national championship next year causing the prestige of your degree to skyrocket.

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cron1834

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by cron1834 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:21 pm

Duke.

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mt2165

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by mt2165 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:26 pm

existentialcrisis wrote:
mt2165 wrote:You're not going to want to hear this, and I know ithaca sucks (I'm here too), but Cornell is definitely the right move for your goals and COA's. But you should definitely try and negotiate.
I don't think Duke would necessarily be indefensible here. Geographic preference is worth at least a little bit, and i feel like I've read somewhere that Cornell has slightly more expensive tuition.
Duke is definitely defensible, and I would definitely say it's the next best choice, especially if you just cant stand Ithaca. I really think Columbia would have to come with a decent amount more money for that to be defensible - I know your parents might have money, but if they're just covering room and board you're still looking at around 150k of debt (with a 60k scholly) debt when it's all said and done. But also, there really is very little difference in employment outcomes between Duke and Cornell.

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existentialcrisis

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by existentialcrisis » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:37 pm

mt2165 wrote:
existentialcrisis wrote:
mt2165 wrote:You're not going to want to hear this, and I know ithaca sucks (I'm here too), but Cornell is definitely the right move for your goals and COA's. But you should definitely try and negotiate.
I don't think Duke would necessarily be indefensible here. Geographic preference is worth at least a little bit, and i feel like I've read somewhere that Cornell has slightly more expensive tuition.
But also, there really is very little difference in employment outcomes between Duke and Cornell.
Agreed 100%. i was just saying that if OP think's he'd be a lot happier at Duke that could be worth 10k

Rh1no

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by Rh1no » Tue Apr 05, 2016 8:54 pm

Parents are just paying for room/board and I'll be living very frugally, especially if I decide to attend Columbia. I'd likely end up with around 150,000 in debt there if they up their scholarship offer to 60,000. Am I comfortable with this? It seems like a lot of money, but I don't want to look back one day and regret not going to a top 4/5 school.

I don't hate Ithaca, but I don't love it either; it has to do more with remaining at a university that has gotten very tiring. I've been looking forward to law school being a change in scenery. However, going to school in the South (Duke) seems like a big move (I'm from Western New York, originally). I haven't had a chance to visit Duke which doesn't help.

I've had my sights on Columbia this whole cycle and was ecstatic to get admitted, which makes this decision more difficult. I can't decide whether paying 75kish more to go there would be regretted in the future or would be a good investment/would eventually be a more-or-less insignificant sum in the grand scheme of my career.

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by fliptrip » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:00 pm

Rh1no wrote:Parents are just paying for room/board and I'll be living very frugally, especially if I decide to attend Columbia. I'd likely end up with around 150,000 in debt there if they up their scholarship offer to 60,000. Am I comfortable with this? It seems like a lot of money, but I don't want to look back one day and regret not going to a top 4/5 school.

I don't hate Ithaca, but I don't love it either; it has to do more with remaining at a university that has gotten very tiring. I've been looking forward to law school being a change in scenery. However, going to school in the South (Duke) seems like a big move (I'm from Western New York, originally). I haven't had a chance to visit Duke which doesn't help.

I've had my sights on Columbia this whole cycle and was ecstatic to get admitted, which makes this decision more difficult. I can't decide whether paying 75kish more to go there would be regretted in the future or would be a good investment/would eventually be a more-or-less insignificant sum in the grand scheme of my career.
This is Duke and don't regret it for a second:

1. I think you'd find some really pleasant similarities between living in Durham and living in Western New York.

2. Right now, you're spending about $7k more for the ability to see a new part of the country and get away from Ithaca. I think that's more than reasonable.

3. Columbia is fantastic, but I really don't think its so fantastic that you should spend $100k more just to be there. Also, missing out on Columbia will not cause nearly the same prestige starvation feelings as not going to Harvard and even then, they will pass.

Congrats, this is a great outcome.

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by Tls2016 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:06 pm

What job do you want after you graduate?
How will much will you owe from Duke?
You should really visit before deciding if at all possible.

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existentialcrisis

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by existentialcrisis » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:29 pm

Rh1no wrote:Parents are just paying for room/board and I'll be living very frugally, especially if I decide to attend Columbia. I'd likely end up with around 150,000 in debt there if they up their scholarship offer to 60,000. Am I comfortable with this? It seems like a lot of money, but I don't want to look back one day and regret not going to a top 4/5 school.

I don't hate Ithaca, but I don't love it either; it has to do more with remaining at a university that has gotten very tiring. I've been looking forward to law school being a change in scenery. However, going to school in the South (Duke) seems like a big move (I'm from Western New York, originally). I haven't had a chance to visit Duke which doesn't help.

I've had my sights on Columbia this whole cycle and was ecstatic to get admitted, which makes this decision more difficult. I can't decide whether paying 75kish more to go there would be regretted in the future or would be a good investment/would eventually be a more-or-less insignificant sum in the grand scheme of my career.
Law School doesn't really work like this. CLS definitely has a placement advantage in NY big law, but Duke also places extremely well. If you want NY big law, the odds are that you will be able to get it from either school.

I'm still in law school, so I guess I'm not yet super qualified to talk about this, but I seriously doubt that once you're employed you will care about passing up the chance to go to "a top 4 school." Duke is also an amazing and very well respected school.

If you can't stand the thought of living in Durham, then I guess that's something you have to take into account, but I don't think there is any way that it is objectively worth 75k (or right now 95k) than Duke.

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Tiago Splitter

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by Tiago Splitter » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:36 pm

I regret not passing up on a top 4/5 school and the money difference was much less for me. You at least have the benefit of parents paying COL regardless of where you go which helps limit that difference, but it's still too much given that you're likely to end up in a similar job from any of CLS, Duke or Cornell.

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Rh1no

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by Rh1no » Tue Apr 05, 2016 9:52 pm

Thanks so much for all the input! I'm thinking that Duke is really worth a visit. My scholarship letter says tuition and fees and books are around 59k from Duke, I'd be getting 45k yearly from scholarship. I'm assuming COL is much, much cheaper in Durham than in Morningside Heights as well. This means I could potentially end up with only 42k in total debt (plus 30k from undergrad). Ultimately after graduation I'd be happy working in biglaw in either NYC, Washington DC, or Boston (provided equality of job opportunities, I would choose Boston). I always thought CLS would be my ticket into the "top firms," but maybe that's being too optimistic/not the right approach to this whole process. I'll admit to being prestige-oriented.

I figure it makes sense to still see what extra money Columbia can give me through negotiation. Does anyone have insight as to whether phone call or email is more appropriate for that?

Anyhow, thanks for all the replies, I do appreciate all thoughtfulness.

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by krads153 » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:17 pm

Rh1no wrote:Thanks so much for all the input! I'm thinking that Duke is really worth a visit. My scholarship letter says tuition and fees and books are around 59k from Duke, I'd be getting 45k yearly from scholarship. I'm assuming COL is much, much cheaper in Durham than in Morningside Heights as well. This means I could potentially end up with only 42k in total debt (plus 30k from undergrad). Ultimately after graduation I'd be happy working in biglaw in either NYC, Washington DC, or Boston (provided equality of job opportunities, I would choose Boston). I always thought CLS would be my ticket into the "top firms," but maybe that's being too optimistic/not the right approach to this whole process. I'll admit to being prestige-oriented.
lol at the bolded...starry eyed 0Ls

Rh1no

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by Rh1no » Tue Apr 05, 2016 10:24 pm

krads153 wrote:
Rh1no wrote:Thanks so much for all the input! I'm thinking that Duke is really worth a visit. My scholarship letter says tuition and fees and books are around 59k from Duke, I'd be getting 45k yearly from scholarship. I'm assuming COL is much, much cheaper in Durham than in Morningside Heights as well. This means I could potentially end up with only 42k in total debt (plus 30k from undergrad). Ultimately after graduation I'd be happy working in biglaw in either NYC, Washington DC, or Boston (provided equality of job opportunities, I would choose Boston). I always thought CLS would be my ticket into the "top firms," but maybe that's being too optimistic/not the right approach to this whole process. I'll admit to being prestige-oriented.
lol at the bolded...starry eyed 0Ls
I mean I'm fully aware that no one's actually happy working in biglaw, so that probably wasn't the right word.

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by Rh1no » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:27 pm

Reviving thread because interestingly enough, Columbia did NOT increase my scholarship after negotiations and using Chicago as leverage. It's still 40k CLS vs 135k Duke for me.

Since my parents are helping with living expenses, I estimated COA at 160-180k for Columbia and 50k-60k for Duke. I visited Duke this weekend and really loved it – hard to compare to NYC because they're so different but I liked both campuses. I'm leaning Duke but finding it so difficult to commit to turning down a Columbia offer sitting on my desk. Is worrying that I'm going to continue feeling prestige-starved unrealistic?

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by dabigchina » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:35 pm

Rh1no wrote:Reviving thread because interestingly enough, Columbia did NOT increase my scholarship after negotiations and using Chicago as leverage. It's still 40k CLS vs 135k Duke for me.

Since my parents are helping with living expenses, I estimated COA at 160-180k for Columbia and 50k-60k for Duke. I visited Duke this weekend and really loved it – hard to compare to NYC because they're so different but I liked both campuses. I'm leaning Duke but finding it so difficult to commit to turning down a Columbia offer sitting on my desk. Is worrying that I'm going to continue feeling prestige-starved unrealistic?
go to duke.

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by Clemenceau » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:40 pm

Rh1no wrote:Reviving thread because interestingly enough, Columbia did NOT increase my scholarship after negotiations and using Chicago as leverage. It's still 40k CLS vs 135k Duke for me.

Since my parents are helping with living expenses, I estimated COA at 160-180k for Columbia and 50k-60k for Duke. I visited Duke this weekend and really loved it – hard to compare to NYC because they're so different but I liked both campuses. I'm leaning Duke but finding it so difficult to commit to turning down a Columbia offer sitting on my desk. Is worrying that I'm going to continue feeling prestige-starved unrealistic?
I made a similar decision and certainly haven't felt prestiged starved for a moment. You're talking about duke here, not florida coastal.

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by Leonardo DiCaprio » Sun Apr 17, 2016 6:41 pm

duke is the right answer here. dont be dumb. someone bring monochromatic into this thread.

ETA: i remember being an applicant. the preftige! the buildings! the name! you will never get it now, but all that shit literally washes away after orientation week and LS just becomes some building you go in and out of couple of times a week. you already won the preftige game by having only t14 schools as your options. both cls and duke have very strong job numbers. go with the money man. go with duke.

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by GreenEggs » Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:05 pm

If you liked Duke, there's zero reason not to go there. The only scenario where Duke wouldn't make sense is if you hated it and Durham.

I'd say be mindful of the expense of a car, but for half of what you'd pay for rent in NYC you'll get a better place in Durham, and the other half will cover car expense (and then some).
Last edited by GreenEggs on Fri Jan 26, 2018 9:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by SplitMyPants » Sun Apr 17, 2016 7:15 pm

Didn't take the time to read through everything else. But don't forget Cornell, at least my application cycle, had a non-trivial up-charge to their tuition, coming to about $15k or so total more than Duke for all three years. IMO it's Duke here.

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by jbagelboy » Sun Apr 17, 2016 8:32 pm

I think Duke is the right choice here. And this is coming from someone who thinks CLS is an amazing school.

Taking lower T14 with a large scholarship over HSCCN is almost always the right play. There are certain situations that justify going with the 'higher ranked' school, but just thinking you want a higher ranked vault firm (which you would probably get from HCN, the biggest ny firm feeders) is definitely not one of them. You'll likely be in a similar situation coming out of Duke as you would be from a t6, except without the six figure debt.

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by cron1834 » Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:41 am

It's still Duke.

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Re: Columbia/Chicago/Duke/Cornell/Michigan

Post by landshoes » Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:51 am

I go to one of CCN, and love my school, but if Duke would have given me 110k more to go there, I would have taken it. $110k+ is well worth being slightly less happy for three years. You probably won't even be less happy at Duke -- from what I hear, Columbia is kind of a miserable place. In fact, I would prefer Duke over Columbia at the same COA, because the difference between what I've heard about the two schools (from students & alums) is so starkly different, and in favor of Duke.

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