Northwestern vs University of Washington Forum

[CambrianExplosives]

I know for most people this wouldn't even be a choice much less a difficult one, but it is extremely hard for me. So far these are my two best offers:

Northwestern with 90k (~185k at graduation)
OR
University of Washington with 45k, probably 27k additional and in state tuition (~95k at graduation)

The 27k is need based aid for UW. If I end up not qualifying then it is pretty much out of the running because 135k at graduation for UW is definitely too much.

As for my stats, I don't have a GPA because I went to a non-grading hippy school and loved it there. My LSAT is 173.

I have a good support network here. My wife is from here and I've lived here for 16 years. We both have family here. I would prefer to work here and right now am mostly interested in public interest / government work. But I haven't gone to law school yet so who knows what the future would hold.

So on the one hand I probably have money, and definitely have a support network, location and general ease of transition. On the other I have job placement stats and a name that will carry more weight outside of the PNW.

I'm obviously still negotiating with both, but this is how it's looking right now.

I'd appreciate any thoughts anyone has. This is partially a rant for my own sake, but I would also love other input.

[Aeon]

It's strange that you haven't gotten more money from Washington, although the lack of GPA is probably a factor.

A lot here depends on your goals. You obviously have significant ties to the state. If you go to Northwestern, you could make a compelling case to potential employers why you want to return to Washington. And Northwestern will give you greater flexibility if you'll want to work elsewhere. On the other hand, staying in-state will be cheaper, and if you are certain that that's where you want to remain -- especially since you're interested in PI and government work -- then you're better off remaining and beginning to build your professional network.

How does your wife view a potential move to Chicago?

[xael]

I'm surprised you don't have more offers from at least CCN with that LSAT score. not having a GPA is neutral for them, and a 173 is above all their medians. Or otoh, money from Cornell/Duke/whatever is around there to negotiate with.

[Vandy2bforrealz]

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[CambrianExplosives]

Okay, since there are a few questions here let me answer.

1) UW doesn't give a ton of money in general. From what I've heard 60k is pretty much the top without need based aid. Since I am a in state student I would be getting all but 7k of the tuition right now with the need aid so if I could get them up to 60k that would bring it down to 2k a year which would be awesome, I've asked about more possible aid and the Admissions Dean told me its always possible, but the have a large number of people this year.

2) Yes, I applied everywhere. I applied to Yale on down. The only one I didn't bother with was Stanford because they cost a ton for their application and are huge into GPA So I figured there wasn't a ton of point. I've been waitlisted at Harvard, Michigan, Columbia, UVA, Duke and Cornell. I haven't heard back from NYU or Chicago. Berkeley is a rejection and Georgetown was an acceptance with 90k so far. I'd rather go to Northwestern than GULC if they have the same scholarship. I'll obviously try and play them against each other, but I don't have high hopes of that approach.

3) I thought my 173 and no GPA would be great too. I don't know how or why. I have 4 years work experience so its not K-JD. I tried EDing at Northwestern for the near full scholarship and got waitlisted then accepted.

4) My wife is of two minds of moving. She loves it here, but wouldn't mind an adventure of a sort. She doesn't have strong professional ties here so moving wouldn't hurt in that way.

[xael]

I'm sorry that must've been rough. Was your hippydippy school reed? I don't remember if they are doing grades now. But I feel like they must have something in place to help people in graduate applications since so many reed grads go to grad school. No need to answer but if you haven't talked to your school's law school advisor it might actually be helpful here (if you went to a school that sends a lot of students to law school). It could be helpful in fighting off waitlists.

Wrt the waitlists, I wouldn't be surprised if you got off several, especially once schools realize they have a nice totally harmless 173 sitting there definitely write LOCIs. It's somewhat shocking how much movement there is after mid-May.

You can negotiate off of waitlists, and pretty heavily. Those schools might give you money, and NU might in return (UW won't, though). I wouldn't be surprised if you got NU up to around 120k.

Sorry that that doesn't answer the UW vs. NU question but I hope that gives you some amount of hope?

[CambrianExplosives]

I'm sorry that must've been rough. Was your hippydippy school reed? I don't remember if they are doing grades now. But I feel like they must have something in place to help people in graduate applications since so many reed grads go to grad school. No need to answer but if you haven't talked to your school's law school advisor it might actually be helpful here (if you went to a school that sends a lot of students to law school). It could be helpful in fighting off waitlists.

Wrt the waitlists, I wouldn't be surprised if you got off several, especially once schools realize they have a nice totally harmless 173 sitting there definitely write LOCIs. It's somewhat shocking how much movement there is after mid-May.

You can negotiate off of waitlists, and pretty heavily. Those schools might give you money, and NU might in return (UW won't, though). I wouldn't be surprised if you got NU up to around 120k.

Sorry that that doesn't answer the UW vs. NU question but I hope that gives you some amount of hope?

Not Reed. No point in really hiding my identity from AdComs since I've given more than enough for them already . So I went to Evergreen in Olympia, WA. Definitely not a high standing school, but it has a nice education and was cheap for me so there you go.

It hasn't been the easiest cycle at all, but I try and go with it. Honestly, law school is one thing I could do. Even though its something I could really see myself doing, its also not my one and only dream in the world. So if the money doesn't end up working out in my favor then I'll be disappointed, but I know I have other options in life.

I'll absolutely keep trying on those waitlists and if I can end up getting NU to give me 120k then that would definitely tip the scales towards them again since that would probably bring cost at graduation to below 150k which wouldn't be too bad at all.

I might talk to my prelaw adviser. The only problem is she graduated from Northwestern Law so she may not be the least biased source .

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to write this. I appreciate the advice and having the chance to sort of write this out on the forums here. I talk with my wife pretty much every day about it, but writing it all down and getting outside opinions helps too.

[jbagelboy]

I'm surprised you don't have more offers from at least CCN with that LSAT score. not having a GPA is neutral for them, and a 173 is above all their medians. Or otoh, money from Cornell/Duke/whatever is around there to negotiate with.

No GPA is not a neutral - its definitely a mild negative, if not a red flag.

[trebekismyhero]

I think at these costs, NU makes more sense especially if you are open to big law. I think your ties to PNW will get you back from NU pretty easily.

If you are ok with less prestigious PI and local gov't, UW can work too, but I'd still want a little more money.

[Jordan Catalano]

From what I've heard 60k is pretty much the top without need based aid. Since I am a in state student I would be getting all but 7k of the tuition right now with the need aid so if I could get them up to 60k that would bring it down to 2k a year which would be awesome, I've asked about more possible aid and the Admissions Dean told me its always possible, but the have a large number of people this year.

I was told outright by UW that they "do not negotiate scholarships". Maybe the rules change for a 173? But then again, I just randomly called the office and didn't give them my info.

[fliptrip]

I'm surprised you don't have more offers from at least CCN with that LSAT score. not having a GPA is neutral for them, and a 173 is above all their medians. Or otoh, money from Cornell/Duke/whatever is around there to negotiate with.

No GPA is not a neutral - its definitely a mild negative, if not a red flag.

To the extent it's a red flag, that 173 kind of settles the concerns, no?

[redtalun]

From what I've heard 60k is pretty much the top without need based aid. Since I am a in state student I would be getting all but 7k of the tuition right now with the need aid so if I could get them up to 60k that would bring it down to 2k a year which would be awesome, I've asked about more possible aid and the Admissions Dean told me its always possible, but the have a large number of people this year.

I was told outright by UW that they "do not negotiate scholarships". Maybe the rules change for a 173? But then again, I just randomly called the office and didn't give them my info.

that's a negotiation tactic - I negotiated with the terrorists and won a sizable scholarship with less than 173.

[jbagelboy]

I'm surprised you don't have more offers from at least CCN with that LSAT score. not having a GPA is neutral for them, and a 173 is above all their medians. Or otoh, money from Cornell/Duke/whatever is around there to negotiate with.

No GPA is not a neutral - its definitely a mild negative, if not a red flag.

To the extent it's a red flag, that 173 kind of settles the concerns, no?

I don't think so, not entirely. Going to an unaccredited or non-traditional undergrad that doesn't assign grades is a risky proposition for top law programs. As OPs cycle illustrates, you're going to run into a lot of waitlists and rejections.

[xael]

Evergreen is a fairly well known state school. I guess I was kinda comparing it to international students

[OutOfTheQuestion]

I'm sorry that must've been rough. Was your hippydippy school reed? I don't remember if they are doing grades now. But I feel like they must have something in place to help people in graduate applications since so many reed grads go to grad school. No need to answer but if you haven't talked to your school's law school advisor it might actually be helpful here (if you went to a school that sends a lot of students to law school). It could be helpful in fighting off waitlists.

Wrt the waitlists, I wouldn't be surprised if you got off several, especially once schools realize they have a nice totally harmless 173 sitting there definitely write LOCIs. It's somewhat shocking how much movement there is after mid-May.

You can negotiate off of waitlists, and pretty heavily. Those schools might give you money, and NU might in return (UW won't, though). I wouldn't be surprised if you got NU up to around 120k.

Sorry that that doesn't answer the UW vs. NU question but I hope that gives you some amount of hope?

Not Reed. No point in really hiding my identity from AdComs since I've given more than enough for them already . So I went to Evergreen in Olympia, WA. Definitely not a high standing school, but it has a nice education and was cheap for me so there you go.

It hasn't been the easiest cycle at all, but I try and go with it. Honestly, law school is one thing I could do. Even though its something I could really see myself doing, its also not my one and only dream in the world. So if the money doesn't end up working out in my favor then I'll be disappointed, but I know I have other options in life.

I'll absolutely keep trying on those waitlists and if I can end up getting NU to give me 120k then that would definitely tip the scales towards them again since that would probably bring cost at graduation to below 150k which wouldn't be too bad at all.

I might talk to my prelaw adviser. The only problem is she graduated from Northwestern Law so she may not be the least biased source .

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to write this. I appreciate the advice and having the chance to sort of write this out on the forums here. I talk with my wife pretty much every day about it, but writing it all down and getting outside opinions helps too.

When I saw in your original post that you went to a non-grading school, I knew it was either Evergreen or Fairhaven College at Western!

I would probably go to NU. It's true that with a degree from UW, you'll be way more limited to the PNW. Even if you want to come back to Seattle after graduation from NU, I'd imagine that degree would look quite a bit better to employers. Seattle seems to be a somewhat insular market, but you have ties here which makes a difference.

I think if I were in your situation (which I wish I was, haha), it would come down to how open you want to keep your options for the future, because UW limits you regionally a little bit.