UVA No Money vs. GULC ($$$) Forum

[jlopez]

Moral of this story, UVA at sticker is a very bad idea. Please don't do that.

Also please don't expect you are just going to get a biglaw job with doing "less work" from Virginia. That's just crazy talk.
Edit: if you are worried about demanding work, biglaw is not for you.

Not worried about demanding work, I already work 60 hours a week and go to school full time so I'm used to the hustle. (I realize biglaw is different, but my current job is definitely demanding). With COL + scholarship consideration, I'll be repaying about 1,100 a month in a standard 10 year repayment plan at GULC, or around 2,500 living modestly at UVA. Is $1,400 a month cheaper worth GULC, assuming I get $0 from Duke so no way to bargain that chip.

I realize you've basically answered this already, I'm just trying to conceptualize the debt in a smaller number.

Everyone agrees you shouldn't go to UVA over Gtown in this situation.You can keep breaking it down however you want, but it isn't going to change our advice. You seem like you maybe have your mind made up for UVA already though, so best of luck.

I haven't made up my mind at all, I'm just trying to weigh the pros and cons of both situations. I don't feel it's as easy of a decision as everyone says, especially since I'm graduating undergrad with 0 debt. I appreciate all of your input though, really, it has helped a lot.

[Tls2016]

How is the difference between 75% at Georgetown and 0 at UVa only $134,000 over 10 years? That can't be correct.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/uva/costs/2014/

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/gulc/costs/2014/

[jlopez]

How is the difference between 75% at Georgetown and 0 at UVa only $134,000 over 10 years? That can't be correct.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/uva/costs/2014/

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/gulc/costs/2014/

Actually according to lst it would be a difference of only 126,077 over three years, estimating my cost of living in both places. I came out to 363,120 total 10 year debt at UVA and 237,043 total debt at GULC. The roughly $134,000 is a figure comes from the pre-10 year debt.

[Tls2016]

How is the difference between 75% at Georgetown and 0 at UVa only $134,000 over 10 years? That can't be correct.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/uva/costs/2014/

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/gulc/costs/2014/

Actually according to lst it would be a difference of only 126,077 over three years, estimating my cost of living in both places. I came out to 363,120 total 10 year debt at UVA and 237,043 total debt at GULC. The roughly $134,000 is a figure comes from the pre-10 year debt.

Well the "only" was the wrong term for me to use.
The difference is a huge amount of money to have to repay.
I am surprised you don't seem to see it that way.

[jlopez]

How is the difference between 75% at Georgetown and 0 at UVa only $134,000 over 10 years? That can't be correct.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/uva/costs/2014/

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/gulc/costs/2014/

Actually according to lst it would be a difference of only 126,077 over three years, estimating my cost of living in both places. I came out to 363,120 total 10 year debt at UVA and 237,043 total debt at GULC. The roughly $134,000 is a figure comes from the pre-10 year debt.

Well the "only" was the wrong term for me to use.
The difference is a huge amount of money to have to repay.
I am surprised you don't seem to see it that way.

I 100% see it that way. But I could justify spending the money up front so to speak if it would generate better long term returns, which I wasn't sure if it would, and from the advice given on this board, seems like it wouldnt.

[fliptrip]

Let's look at this objectively.

You're basically buying an outcome from a school, right? We can quantify the outcomes here:

1. Your imputed biglaw chances are the schools FC+BL% via LST / 80% to reflect the idea that not every student who comes to law school wants to do biglaw. We don't have any hard data on this, so I'm just going to use 80%. So, from that we see these imputed biglaw odds:

GULC: 60%
UVA: 85%

2. Your "payoff" we will consider as your combined base salaries your first two years of biglaw ($330k).

3. We simply multiply 1 * 2 to get your expected return at each school.

GULC:

4. We compare 3 to your debt-financed COA at both schools and see. Obviously, a negative number means that it's not worth it.

GULC: $198k
UVA: $281k

COA
GULC: $160k
UVA:$301k

Here's your pseudo present values:

GULC: $38k
UVA: -$20k

So, GULC wins here...and UVA isn't worth it at sticker.

[EzraFitz]

How is the difference between 75% at Georgetown and 0 at UVa only $134,000 over 10 years? That can't be correct.
http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/uva/costs/2014/

http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/gulc/costs/2014/

Actually according to lst it would be a difference of only 126,077 over three years, estimating my cost of living in both places. I came out to 363,120 total 10 year debt at UVA and 237,043 total debt at GULC. The roughly $134,000 is a figure comes from the pre-10 year debt.

Well the "only" was the wrong term for me to use.
The difference is a huge amount of money to have to repay.
I am surprised you don't seem to see it that way.

I 100% see it that way. But I could justify spending the money up front so to speak if it would generate better long term returns, which I wasn't sure if it would, and from the advice given on this board, seems like it wouldnt.

For the cost it really wouldn't. It just comes off like you keep trying to rephrase the same question hoping you'll get a different answer. It's pretty clear what the consensus is as to UVA sticker vs. GULC 75%. Hope that Duke gives you something, but if not, the choice is pretty clear.

[pppp]

A couple things I feel that haven't been discussed. Although UVA has a decent amount not seeking big law, I believe Georgetown has a significantly larger amount, basically being the DC(gov) law school. This may make big law percents even closer. Also, gtown has an absurd number of students transfer in who may have slightly worse employment outcomes. Altogether I don't think the difference is as crazy as you seem to be worried about.

I think I'm personally going to take the less money at a better ranked t14 school, but the deciding factor for me was location. I think DC beats Charlottesville as a place to live and makes the decision for gtown even easier for you. Unless you have an aversion to city life in which case the opposite may be true.

[jlopez]

Let's look at this objectively.

You're basically buying an outcome from a school, right? We can quantify the outcomes here:

1. Your imputed biglaw chances are the schools FC+BL% via LST / 80% to reflect the idea that not every student who comes to law school wants to do biglaw. We don't have any hard data on this, so I'm just going to use 80%. So, from that we see these imputed biglaw odds:

GULC: 60%
UVA: 85%

2. Your "payoff" we will consider as your combined base salaries your first two years of biglaw ($330k).

3. We simply multiply 1 * 2 to get your expected return at each school.

GULC:

4. We compare 3 to your debt-financed COA at both schools and see. Obviously, a negative number means that it's not worth it.

GULC: $198k
UVA: $281k

COA
GULC: $160k
UVA:$301k

Here's your pseudo present values:

GULC: $38k
UVA: -$20k

So, GULC wins here...and UVA isn't worth it at sticker.

This is kind of what I was hoping to hear - more of a number breakdown. I really, truly appreciate it. FWIW, I was leaning towards GULC the whole time but was looking for something to sway the other way. But, alas, that won't happen, which makes my life easier (and cheaper)

[jlopez]

A couple things I feel that haven't been discussed. Although UVA has a decent amount not seeking big law, I believe Georgetown has a significantly larger amount, basically being the DC(gov) law school. This may make big law percents even closer. Also, gtown has an absurd number of students transfer in who may have slightly worse employment outcomes. Altogether I don't think the difference is as crazy as you seem to be worried about.

I think I'm personally going to take the less money at a better ranked t14 school, but the deciding factor for me was location. I think DC beats Charlottesville as a place to live and makes the decision for gtown even easier for you. Unless you have an aversion to city life in which case the opposite may be true.

Very true, and I hadn't thought about the transfer stats. I love the city - that was something that always made gtown more attractive. Also, I'm from a notoriously "collegey" college town so I wasn't super keen on repeating the last four years.