PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Should I ED? If so, where?

Don't ED
2
22%
UVA
2
22%
Chicago
5
56%
 
Total votes: 9

JustPeekin
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PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby JustPeekin » Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:57 pm

Hello all,

I am considering Michigan, UVA, Berkeley, and Chicago for law school (all at sticker); also all paid for via loans. I intend to go into PI and use the IBR + LRAP to pay off my debt in ten years.

I am from the midwest and am open to working there, but I think I would prefer to work in the northwest (note: I have no regional ties). I would also be open to working in CA, if I could find a region with PI work and a lower COL. As it stands, I would pretty much be open to working in any region that has nice (ish) weather (I'm tired of 22 years of midwest winters) and is on the more liberal side of social/economic issues (plz don't recommend MISSISSIPPI).

In the short term, I would like to graduate law school and spend a year or two clerking for either a state supreme court or federal court before finding a PI job. My long-term career goals would be to transition into a state elected position (state rep, state senator (note: not U.S. rep/senator)), local position (mayor (note: could be of a town of 10,000 people, not gunning for mayor of Seattle)), or as a judge. I also wouldn't mind working long-term for the DOJ, SEC, etc... (yes, I understand those are very competitive positions). Ultimately, I just want to work for the U.S. government in some capacity (I'm even open to being a JAG).

My numbers are: (165/3.93) from Northwestern University in Evanston, IL. Yes, I understand that my LSAT is unfortunate; my standardized test scores have always been low (relative to my peers) due to the fact that I'm literally the slowest reader I know (ironically, I'm also an intensive-reading humanities major). This reading complication stems from childhood speech problems that necessitated speech therapy. For the sake of things, my LSAT is final, and I have no interest in retaking it or financial ability to do so.

I am open to applying ED to UVA or Chicago, not Michigan (and of course Berkeley has no option).

Overall:

Since I also want to keep ALL of my options open and am currently and intend to be a high achiever in law school (although it doesn't always work out like that), it does concern me that as of 2004 Chicago had 14 federal judges, while UVA had 40 (even adjusting for class size there is a discrepancy in UVA's favor). I find it equally interesting that UVA also landed more supreme court clerkships from 2004-2014 than Chicago. If you account for the clerkships with Scalia, Souter, and John Paul Stevens (all retired or dead), UVA has produced 22 SCOTUS clerks in the same time that Chicago produced 11 (which yet again shows a discrepancy in UVA's favor after adjusting for class size). While I understand the difference might be minuscule for SCOTUS clerks and the probability of becoming one are abysmally low, this is still an important factor for me. Scalia's death likely significantly hurt Chicago's ability to produce SCOTUS clerks, since he was very favorable towards the school.

From a clerkship perspective, it seems like UVA > Chicago > Michigan > Berkeley
From a federal judge perspective, it seems like UVA > Michigan > Chicago = Berkeley

School Specific:

Chicago: The 177 curve scares me, since it sounds really harsh. I think the campus is beautiful and I am comfortable with Chicago, since I've lived near it my entire life and did my undergrad at Northwestern. I do hate midwest winters though (a lot), and I'm not the biggest fan of Chicago having essentially no school spirit; I originally transferred from a top LAC (because I hated being in the middle of nowhere and having no school spirit), and Chicago reminds me of a supersized LAC (although it's clearly not in the middle of nowhere). Hyde Park's location is also not the best (fine from a safety standpoint); downtown Evanston has spoiled me with great nearby shopping and food. Although, it is nice that it is much closer to downtown Chicago. SF ratio is also low and great. BEST LRAP by far.

UVA: I like that the school seems to produce a lot of SCOTUS clerks and federal judges. It also seems well respected in the legal community (although still under HYS and CCN). The fact that they have a strong ACC sports presence in basketball and a lot of school spirit is really nice too. That being said, I've heard the school is a bit "fratty," which is probably my biggest complaint at Northwestern, a school that is 40% greek. Since I'll be at the law school, this clearly won't be as big of a problem, but I do like my social surroundings to be normal and non-douchey. I hear UVA's campus is beautiful, but I also hear it's in the middle of nowhere. LRAP is meh.

Berkeley: I have some family members who went to Berkeley law and loved it. The weather is great, and campus is okay. It also has a lot of lay prestige (which is always a bonus) and CA clout. I also like the P/NP grading (especially against the seemingly harsh Chicago system). LRAP is pretty good too (as long as I don't pick up a spouse). I'm not sure how good PI placement is. I imagine that proximity to the bay area is also nice.

Michigan: I hear Ann Arbor is an awesome college town. Michigan degree clearly travels well, but the weather is horrendous in the winter (yay midwest). I've always heard that Michigan is big into PI though. LRAP is probably the worst of the four. I've read a bit about their pro bono program, which seems to be very popular, and I like the sound of it (though the pro bono program does not seem unique to Michigan).

Some other schools which I would also consider: Duke, Notre Dame, Northwestern, NYU, and Penn.

I would prefer to apply to all of these schools RD, but if you think that the only way I would have a high chance of being admitted to one of them is via ED, I would definitely be open to UVA or Chicago ED.

I would love to hear everyone's thoughts.

Thanks!

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:05 pm

So you're not yet accepted to any of these schools?

JustPeekin
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby JustPeekin » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:14 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:So you're not yet accepted to any of these schools?


Absolutely correct. I'm trying to prod for any information about which one would be best for my interests and if I should apply ED to a particular institution. If I didn't have the ED question floating around, I clearly wouldn't have posted without acceptances. I'm hoping that this thread will help sway me either to do all RDs or sell me that one school would be a really good ED decision based on my stats. For instance, right now I'm strongly leaning towards applying ED to Chicago, but if someone made a really strong case for how Michigan would be conducive for my PI goals, I would just apply RD to all. So, it's not choosing schools in the traditional sense of I've been accepted now help me choose. It's in the sense of I'm applying so help me choose if I should ED at a specific school or give preference to a school so that way when/if I receive acceptances I will already have clear favorites (since money isn't really an issue, so I'm not waiting on or weighing financial aid options like many are).

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Kummel
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby Kummel » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:21 pm

JustPeekin wrote: For the sake of things, my LSAT is final, and I have no interest in retaking it or financial ability to do so.



i have no idea if you're someone alt'ing and this is not a serious post, but assuming that's not the case. If you think you have the financial ability to take on 300k of debt, then you have the financial ability to retake.

So retake.

If that's not the case, don't ED anywhere, and come back here when you actually have decisions.

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Kummel
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby Kummel » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:24 pm

downtown Evanston has spoiled me with great nearby shopping and food.



UVA...The fact that they have a strong ACC sports presence in basketball and a lot of school spirit is really nice too.


Berkeley... I'm not sure how good PI placement is.


lol

JustPeekin
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby JustPeekin » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:25 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:
JustPeekin wrote: For the sake of things, my LSAT is final, and I have no interest in retaking it or financial ability to do so.



i have no idea if you're someone alt'ing and this is not a serious post, but assuming that's not the case. If you think you have the financial ability to take on 300k of debt, then you have the financial ability to retake.

So retake.

If that's not the case, don't ED anywhere, and come back here when you actually have decisions.


I'm doing IBR + LRAP, so that's a completely different story. Affording 300k of long-term debt that will be forgiven is a lot different than being able to afford $175 to retake a test. I have other much more serious financial obligations, and if the 300k of long-term debt isn't a serious concern for me, I see no reason to retake. I'm not looking for "retake" responses. I'm interested in actual feedback about school culture, fit according to my preferences/goals, and if I should ED to any of the schools (based on LRAP or other factors relevant to me).

WheninLaw
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby WheninLaw » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:27 pm

JustPeekin wrote:Affording 300k of long-term debt that will be forgiven is a lot different than being able to afford $175 to retake a test.


You almost had me until this.

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Kummel
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby Kummel » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:27 pm

JustPeekin wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
JustPeekin wrote: For the sake of things, my LSAT is final, and I have no interest in retaking it or financial ability to do so.



i have no idea if you're someone alt'ing and this is not a serious post, but assuming that's not the case. If you think you have the financial ability to take on 300k of debt, then you have the financial ability to retake.

So retake.

If that's not the case, don't ED anywhere, and come back here when you actually have decisions.


I'm doing IBR + LRAP, so that's a completely different story. Affording 300k of long-term debt that will be forgiven is a lot different than being able to afford $175 to retake a test. I have other much more serious financial obligations, and if the 300k of long-term debt isn't a serious concern for me, I see no reason to retake. I'm not looking for "retake" responses. I'm interested in actual feedback about school culture, fit according to my preferences/goals, and if I should ED to any of the schools (based on LRAP or other factors relevant to me).


You're falsely assuming that you will definitely get an LRAP qualifying job, or at least be in some that you'd want to stay in for 10 years (being state senator doesn't count, so you'll have to wait 10 years for that)... if you want to make a poor financial decision, ED NYU because at least they're LRAP cap is higher.

JustPeekin
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby JustPeekin » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:28 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:
downtown Evanston has spoiled me with great nearby shopping and food.



UVA...The fact that they have a strong ACC sports presence in basketball and a lot of school spirit is really nice too.


Berkeley... I'm not sure how good PI placement is.


lol



Culture and fit are important to me so the first two quotes are completely relevant, and I legitimately don't know how great Berkeley PI placement is, so that quote is also relevant. Most of the PI threads I looked at were not very helpful, and many indicated that the PI rankings found online are not every accurate or useful. I'm just looking for some genuine responses. I don't know why "lol" is necessary, when you could have actually helped me out. It seems rude and inconsiderate. Was really hoping for more from all the effort I put into this post and the purpose of this community.

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Kummel
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby Kummel » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:30 pm

JustPeekin wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
downtown Evanston has spoiled me with great nearby shopping and food.



UVA...The fact that they have a strong ACC sports presence in basketball and a lot of school spirit is really nice too.


Berkeley... I'm not sure how good PI placement is.


lol



Culture and fit are important to me so the first two quotes are completely relevant, and I legitimately don't know how great Berkeley PI placement is, so that quote is also relevant. Most of the PI threads I looked at were not very helpful, and many indicated that the PI rankings found online are not every accurate or useful. I'm just looking for some genuine responses. I don't know why "lol" is necessary, when you could have actually helped me out. It seems rude and inconsiderate. Was really hoping for more from all the effort I put into this post and the purpose of this community.


Berkeley is probably the best PI school in the country, so if you're committed just go there. easy.

WheninLaw
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby WheninLaw » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:31 pm

If you are (somehow) serious: Pick the school with the best LRAP program. You can find that information easily.

I think things like "Berkeley rules PI" is total flame. Yale is probably #1.

JustPeekin
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby JustPeekin » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:32 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:
JustPeekin wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
JustPeekin wrote: For the sake of things, my LSAT is final, and I have no interest in retaking it or financial ability to do so.



i have no idea if you're someone alt'ing and this is not a serious post, but assuming that's not the case. If you think you have the financial ability to take on 300k of debt, then you have the financial ability to retake.

So retake.

If that's not the case, don't ED anywhere, and come back here when you actually have decisions.


I'm doing IBR + LRAP, so that's a completely different story. Affording 300k of long-term debt that will be forgiven is a lot different than being able to afford $175 to retake a test. I have other much more serious financial obligations, and if the 300k of long-term debt isn't a serious concern for me, I see no reason to retake. I'm not looking for "retake" responses. I'm interested in actual feedback about school culture, fit according to my preferences/goals, and if I should ED to any of the schools (based on LRAP or other factors relevant to me).


You're falsely assuming that you will definitely get an LRAP qualifying job, or at least be in some that you'd want to stay in for 10 years (being state senator doesn't count, so you'll have to wait 10 years for that)... if you want to make a poor financial decision, ED NYU because at least they're LRAP cap is higher.


That's true; I may not get an LRAP qualifying job. It's a risk; I could also hate my employment, which is another risk. That being said, I just need to make 120 qualifying payments under IBR and that doesn't need to be at one employer. As for my chances of landing an LRAP qualifying job, I'm willing to roll the dice, because I'm fairly confident with at least my in-state connections that I would be able to land one, even if that meant not leaving the midwest until my 30s. As for state senator/rep, that's what I labeled as a long-term goal (aka in 25-30+ years after I graduate from law school). I want to work until my late 40s or early 50s before I try to make a move like that.

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Kummel
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby Kummel » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:32 pm

WheninLaw wrote:I think things like "Berkeley rules PI" is total flame. Yale is probably #1.


Ok fair, I guess I meant of his not yet choices (excluding NYU)

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Kummel
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby Kummel » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:33 pm

JustPeekin wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
JustPeekin wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
JustPeekin wrote: For the sake of things, my LSAT is final, and I have no interest in retaking it or financial ability to do so.



i have no idea if you're someone alt'ing and this is not a serious post, but assuming that's not the case. If you think you have the financial ability to take on 300k of debt, then you have the financial ability to retake.

So retake.

If that's not the case, don't ED anywhere, and come back here when you actually have decisions.


I'm doing IBR + LRAP, so that's a completely different story. Affording 300k of long-term debt that will be forgiven is a lot different than being able to afford $175 to retake a test. I have other much more serious financial obligations, and if the 300k of long-term debt isn't a serious concern for me, I see no reason to retake. I'm not looking for "retake" responses. I'm interested in actual feedback about school culture, fit according to my preferences/goals, and if I should ED to any of the schools (based on LRAP or other factors relevant to me).


You're falsely assuming that you will definitely get an LRAP qualifying job, or at least be in some that you'd want to stay in for 10 years (being state senator doesn't count, so you'll have to wait 10 years for that)... if you want to make a poor financial decision, ED NYU because at least they're LRAP cap is higher.


That's true; I may not get an LRAP qualifying job. It's a risk; I could also hate my employment, which is another risk. That being said, I just need to make 120 qualifying payments under IBR and that doesn't need to be at one employer. As for my chances of landing an LRAP qualifying job, I'm willing to roll the dice, because I'm fairly confident with at least my in-state connections that I would be able to land one, even if that meant not leaving the midwest until my 30s. As for state senator/rep, that's what I labeled as a long-term goal (aka in 25-30+ years after I graduate from law school). I want to work until my late 40s or early 50s before I try to make a move like that.


How are you willing to take that risk, but not take a gamble on $175 for a retake

JustPeekin
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby JustPeekin » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:37 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:
JustPeekin wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
downtown Evanston has spoiled me with great nearby shopping and food.



UVA...The fact that they have a strong ACC sports presence in basketball and a lot of school spirit is really nice too.


Berkeley... I'm not sure how good PI placement is.


lol



Culture and fit are important to me so the first two quotes are completely relevant, and I legitimately don't know how great Berkeley PI placement is, so that quote is also relevant. Most of the PI threads I looked at were not very helpful, and many indicated that the PI rankings found online are not every accurate or useful. I'm just looking for some genuine responses. I don't know why "lol" is necessary, when you could have actually helped me out. It seems rude and inconsiderate. Was really hoping for more from all the effort I put into this post and the purpose of this community.


Berkeley is probably the best PI school in the country, so if you're committed just go there. easy.


Thanks, this is really helpful information that's useful for what I'm trying to get out of this thread. I really appreciate it.

WheninLaw wrote:If you are (somehow) serious: Pick the school with the best LRAP program. You can find that information easily.

I think things like "Berkeley rules PI" is total flame. Yale is probably #1.


I am serious. I have a spreadsheet with all of the LRAPs. Why would you advocate for choosing the best LRAP program over employability in PI? Do you think that the ability to land a PI job should be good enough from any of these schools that LRAP warrants the most attention?

Well, unfortunately, I'm a long ways from ever being able to get into Yale.

JustPeekin
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby JustPeekin » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:39 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:
JustPeekin wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
JustPeekin wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:
JustPeekin wrote: For the sake of things, my LSAT is final, and I have no interest in retaking it or financial ability to do so.



i have no idea if you're someone alt'ing and this is not a serious post, but assuming that's not the case. If you think you have the financial ability to take on 300k of debt, then you have the financial ability to retake.

So retake.

If that's not the case, don't ED anywhere, and come back here when you actually have decisions.


I'm doing IBR + LRAP, so that's a completely different story. Affording 300k of long-term debt that will be forgiven is a lot different than being able to afford $175 to retake a test. I have other much more serious financial obligations, and if the 300k of long-term debt isn't a serious concern for me, I see no reason to retake. I'm not looking for "retake" responses. I'm interested in actual feedback about school culture, fit according to my preferences/goals, and if I should ED to any of the schools (based on LRAP or other factors relevant to me).


You're falsely assuming that you will definitely get an LRAP qualifying job, or at least be in some that you'd want to stay in for 10 years (being state senator doesn't count, so you'll have to wait 10 years for that)... if you want to make a poor financial decision, ED NYU because at least they're LRAP cap is higher.


That's true; I may not get an LRAP qualifying job. It's a risk; I could also hate my employment, which is another risk. That being said, I just need to make 120 qualifying payments under IBR and that doesn't need to be at one employer. As for my chances of landing an LRAP qualifying job, I'm willing to roll the dice, because I'm fairly confident with at least my in-state connections that I would be able to land one, even if that meant not leaving the midwest until my 30s. As for state senator/rep, that's what I labeled as a long-term goal (aka in 25-30+ years after I graduate from law school). I want to work until my late 40s or early 50s before I try to make a move like that.


How are you willing to take that risk, but not take a gamble on $175 for a retake


I have extenuating circumstances and familial medical obligations to take care of while I attend school that don't really love me the room to do so. In the worst case scenario, my stats should lock me up a full-tuition scholarship at my T2 state flagship, which has some big law placement and does extremely well within my home state, so there isn't much of a sense of urgency.

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Kummel
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby Kummel » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:41 pm

JustPeekin wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:How are you willing to take that risk, but not take a gamble on $175 for a retake


I have extenuating circumstances and familial medical obligations to take care of while I attend school that don't really love me the room to do so. In the worst case scenario, my stats should lock me up a full-tuition scholarship at my T2 state flagship, which has some big law placement and does extremely well within my home state, so there isn't much of a sense of urgency.


what? but you're not currently in school now? if you have family obligations, the best you can do is take a full tuition scholarship for no debt and then use your ties to get a job in your home state

whysoseriousbiglaw
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby whysoseriousbiglaw » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:43 pm

Jesus fuck, I don't even know where to start.

Berkeley's grading: It's not P/NP. It's HH, H and P and then PC and NC...which means there are still grades.

LRAP: Berkeley and Michigan's LRAP are better than UVA and Chicago's. Chicago's LRAP is actually kind of shit out of the T-14.

Everything else makes me think you're a troll.....
Last edited by whysoseriousbiglaw on Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

JustPeekin
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby JustPeekin » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:44 pm

DCfilterDC wrote:
JustPeekin wrote:
DCfilterDC wrote:How are you willing to take that risk, but not take a gamble on $175 for a retake


I have extenuating circumstances and familial medical obligations to take care of while I attend school that don't really love me the room to do so. In the worst case scenario, my stats should lock me up a full-tuition scholarship at my T2 state flagship, which has some big law placement and does extremely well within my home state, so there isn't much of a sense of urgency.


what? but you're not currently in school now? if you have family obligations, the best you can do is take a full tuition scholarship for no debt and then use your ties to get a job in your home state


I'm in school now. Yeap, I'm strongly considering that option. It's a complicated matter.

Thanks for all the help.

JustPeekin
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby JustPeekin » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:49 pm

whysoseriousbiglaw wrote:Jesus fuck, I don't even know where to start.

Berkeley's grading: It's not P/NP. It's HH, H and P and then PC and NC...which means there are still grades.

LRAP: Berkeley and Michigan's LRAP are better than UVA and Chicago's. Chicago's LRAP is actually kind of shit out of the T-14.

Everything else makes me think you're a troll.....


Could you elaborate about the LRAP? Chicago has an $80,000/yr. cap and includes clerkships. How is that bad? Yeap, I noted Berkeley has a better LRAP than UVA and Michigan.

Awesome. Thanks for the information about Berkeley. The source that I read earlier indicated that Berkeley had a P/NP policy and that you could P with H or P with HH. I just looked it up and got some greater clarity. Thanks!

This is literally my first OP. I don't know why everyone is shitting on me and calling me a troll for not knowing shit. I didn't come here because I know shit; I came here because I know very little. Of course I'm going to get things wrong, that's what I have you all for.

WheninLaw
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby WheninLaw » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:51 pm

whysoseriousbiglaw wrote:Jesus fuck, I don't even know where to start.

Berkeley's grading: It's not P/NP. It's HH, H and P and then PC and NC...which means there are still grades.

LRAP: Berkeley and Michigan's LRAP are better than UVA and Chicago's. Chicago's LRAP is actually kind of shit out of the T-14.

Everything else makes me think you're a troll.....


What? Chicago's is up to 80K (not prorated) and doesn't include spousal income. It also doesn't have that weird clerkship rule that Berkeley's does.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:56 pm

Federal judges from a school is really not a useful metric for choosing a school, because there are way too many steps along the way to draw any straight line between the two things. Number of SCOTUS clerks is also relevant to only a REALLY small group of people. If you excel at any of those schools, you'll have access to great clerkships and good PI opportunities, so honestly it's going to come down to where you get in and your choice about LRAP. (I can't comment on the value of EDing anywhere.)

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Mullens
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby Mullens » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:58 pm

People are "shitting on you" because (1) you are talking about taking on $300,000 of debt without any proper understanding of what that looks like and how LRAP programs actually work; (2) you haven't been accepted to any of these schools yet; (3) you refuse to retake the LSAT because it costs $175 and could literally save you hundreds of thousands of dollars and go to a better school by doing so (if you have family medical obligations then why are you looking at schools across the country and not just in that market); (4) you seem to have done no research on any of these schools and their PI placement; (5) you are talking about the biglaw placement of a T2 flagship, which shows you are not actually committed to PI; and (6) your excuse is "this is my first OP" as if you expect all the information to be spoonfed to you.

You need to really do a lot more research and carefully consider the choices you are *hypothetically* about to make. Your entire future and financial well-being rests on this decision and you need to take it far more seriously. With all that being said, you should sit out a cycle or two and retake the LSAT. At the very least this will allow you to earn an income and help take care of your familial medical obligations. It will also give you enough money to retake the LSAT.

whysoseriousbiglaw
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Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby whysoseriousbiglaw » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:59 pm

WheninLaw wrote:
whysoseriousbiglaw wrote:Jesus fuck, I don't even know where to start.

Berkeley's grading: It's not P/NP. It's HH, H and P and then PC and NC...which means there are still grades.

LRAP: Berkeley and Michigan's LRAP are better than UVA and Chicago's. Chicago's LRAP is actually kind of shit out of the T-14.

Everything else makes me think you're a troll.....


What? Chicago's is up to 80K (not prorated) and doesn't include spousal income. It also doesn't have that weird clerkship rule that Berkeley's does.



Berkeley's LRAP has a higher cap. Michigan's LRAP is NOT tied to any type of employment in particular (as long as it's JD necessary) - that means you can use the LRAP even if you're working at a firm or in private practice (not restricted to non profit work)....which is huge imo.

On the other hand, Chicago is up to 80k AND "must be working for the public interest broadly defined, including: a) Non-profit, defined as a 501(c)(3) organization; b) Judicial clerkship; c) Government office (federal, state, local or tribal); or d) U.S.-based international NGO"

whysoseriousbiglaw
Posts: 247
Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:36 am

Re: PI: Michigan vs. UVA vs. Berkeley vs. Chicago

Postby whysoseriousbiglaw » Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:03 pm

Mullens wrote:People are "shitting on you" because (1) you are talking about taking on $300,000 of debt without any proper understanding of what that looks like and how LRAP programs actually work; (2) you haven't been accepted to any of these schools yet; (3) you refuse to retake the LSAT because it costs $175 and could literally save you hundreds of thousands of dollars and go to a better school by doing so (if you have family medical obligations then why are you looking at schools across the country and not just in that market); (4) you seem to have done no research on any of these schools and their PI placement; (5) you are talking about the biglaw placement of a T2 flagship, which shows you are not actually committed to PI; and (6) your excuse is "this is my first OP" as if you expect all the information to be spoonfed to you.

You need to really do a lot more research and carefully consider the choices you are *hypothetically* about to make. Your entire future and financial well-being rests on this decision and you need to take it far more seriously. With all that being said, you should sit out a cycle or two and retake the LSAT. At the very least this will allow you to earn an income and help take care of your familial medical obligations. It will also give you enough money to retake the LSAT.


Not to mention if you are a slow reader, going into law is probably a terrible idea.

I don't get a lot of time in biglaw to do work.... Law school was a goddamn joke (because i didn't do any work), but I imagine if you plan on doing work and you're a slow reader you probably wouldn't be able to finish anything. Test taking in law school might be another problem if you're not a quick typist.




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