SMU vs. William and Mary (both full rides) Forum

[ArmyJAG101]

So I am an Army FLEP (funded legal education program) student and deciding between these 2.

Full tuition and fees are paid for at both.

I will have full pay during law school ~65k.

I'm not so concerned with placement since I will be working as a JAG the next 15 years.


My question is, from students or alumni at these two schools, what is the culture at the schools like, and what is the quality of the education.

And anything else you have to say about the schools....

[BigZuck]

This is still spot on IMO:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 1#p9119581

The schools are identical. So it's a matter of whether you want to live in Dallas or whatever city in Virginia that William and Mary is located in. I'd imagine the two cities are quite different but it's all about your preferences here.

[kalvano]

Pretty much every law school is going to have the same quality of education. Do you want to live in Dallas or in Williamsburg? That's really the only factor that matters.

[p1921]

1L here: SMU's a good school. I'd certainly recommend it since you'd be coming for free. Can't speak to W&M, but I think the above posters are correct. Just comes down to Dallas v. Williamsburg.

Note - there's no Whataburger in VA, and that should be a pretty big factor.

[Specter1389]

1L here: SMU's a good school. I'd certainly recommend it since you'd be coming for free. Can't speak to W&M, but I think the above posters are correct. Just comes down to Dallas v. Williamsburg.

Note - there's no Whataburger in VA, and that should be a pretty big factor.

Nope, but Publix is finally expanding to Virginia.

Btw OP, congrats on the Army FLEP. I was shot down for Air Force FLEP by my career field not releasing me to even compete. Deferring for two years and getting out. Williamsburg is a small town but only a couple hour drive to D.C. My roommate went to William & Mary for his Masters and he enjoyed his three years there. From my understanding, William & Mary also has a lot of officers in FLEP because of its low tuition cost and reputation. If it were me, I would choose William and Mary but that's because I have enjoyed my time in Virginia more than I enjoyed being stationed in Texas. Good luck.

[totesTheGoat]

My question is, from students or alumni at these two schools, what is the culture at the schools like, and what is the quality of the education.

SMU 3L-ish (3rd year out of 3.5 in the evening program) here. SMU's culture is pretty laid back precisely because of the evening students. After 1L, everybody can take evening classes and day classes, so you get a bunch of evening students with life experience and perspective sitting in the same class as a bunch of K-JD kids who are bright eyed and bushy tailed. With that combination, some of the worst neuroses of law school are toned down.

Most people are happy to talk if you try to strike up a conversation, and folks generally try to help one another out. It can get a bit cliquey at times, but I may just be noticing that because I've been out of UG for a while. Study groups happen, but I would imagine they're more common in the day program. It's really hard to coordinate study groups with people who work 40 hours a week.

IMO, the thing that is best about SMU is the adjunct faculty. We have an effective monopoly on legal teaching positions in the DFW area, so we're pulling in the best legal talent from one of the biggest metro areas in the US. There are only a couple adjuncts that I've had a bad experience with, out of the 10 or 15 that I've had so far. Generally, I think that our adjuncts exceed the quality of our full-time and tenured profs, with a few notable exceptions. We tend to have 2 or 3 attorneys from different firms team up to teach classes, which results in great networking and a great variety in viewpoints.

SMU (at least the law school) is really struggling with facility issues. The law quad could be entirely demolished and rebuilt from scratch, and nobody would shed a tear for the old buildings. 60 years of half-assed upgrades to the facilities have resulted in classrooms that are a distraction from learning.

Also, some parts of the curriculum needed an overhaul 15 years ago, but certain professors simply won't take no for an answer. Thankfully there is really only one required course that needs a massive overhaul, but definitely use the institutional knowledge to avoid the 3 or 4 professors who have a reputation for being awful. I ignored my classmates' advice once, and I will never ignore it again.

There are a lot of resources provided by the school that just fly under the radar. They're really bad about advertising the services they provide. However, once you find some resource, it's usually really helpful. Career Services ended up finding me a full time job in my 1L year primarily because I made an appointment and talked with them for an hour.

The city around SMU is great if you're interested in the college scene. I live 15 miles north and east of campus, so I'm not really the best resource for social information. I'll occasionally stop at a bar or restaurant with a couple friends if a class gets cancelled or something. It's a quick trip down to uptown if you are really interested in Dallas nightlife.

I'll keep an eye on this thread if you have any specific questions about SMU. Keep in mind that my perspective is very different from your average full-time student, though.

[ArmyJAG101]

Wow...I finally got some great answers on this besides, do you like Dallas?

I'm also a tad bit older than your typical straight out of undergrad law student, 28 to be exact. I'm also done with the college scene after 7 years at a large SEC school known for winning a lot of football championships.

The comments about the fellow students and facilities at SMU is what I was looking for. I was stationed in San Antonio for a while and did enjoy my weekend trips to Dallas.

I'm interested in hearing about the same things from W&M alumni and students.

[jacklsat]

The answer of totesTheGoat is awesome and detailed. I submitted application to SMU this month and I'm highly attracted by Dallas. To be exact, the whole Texas. As an international applicant from Asia, the low living cost and diverse circumstances are major factors for me to apply. Of course, the huge market as well. I'm interested in Energy and Environment Law. Also Entertainment Law. What's the chance for an international law school graduate to find a job in Dallas?

[footballlax55]

Kinda a few days late to the post, but here's my few cents.

I go to WM for undergrad, so it's a little different, especially because the law school is not located right next to the undergrad campus, it's more like a mile away on the other side of colonial williamsburg.

Anyways, the culture between SMU and WM it probably really different, at least in terms of the atmosphere. I know the undergrad is very book-wormy and it's definitely less of a party school and less good ol' boy like. I dont know how much this will apply to the law schools, but there's still probably different vibes. WM is technically in the south, but not really. SMU is definitely southern (my cousin went there).

The surrounding cities are also way different. Williamsburg is pretty bad. The town is very small (only 15,000 people in the town itself). It's mostly old people and college students and maybe some touristy stuff. The center of the town is colonial williamsburg, so colonial reenactors and stuff. There are cute little shops and stuff, but it's touristy and the charm wears off except for maybe like the occasional walking around there with a date. New Town is like an 8-10 min drive from the law school. It has some more shops and stuff and it's fine, but not vibrant at all. Some shops/businesses don't open on sundays. A lot of shops/restaurants aren't open late.
Nightlife is pretty nonexistant. There are the "dellies" because they can't technically be called bars or whatever. but there are 4 or 5 of them and theyre small. Other than that to actually do something you'd have to drive 30 min to newport news or 50 min to richmond. Same thing if you want to do something on the weekend besides just bum around.

The law school itself is probably solid. My friends that are in the law school really like it. They like their profs and some of the activities the law school puts on. And the school seems able to attract decent profs and speakers

I want to say that SMU would probably be a better choice in terms of culture/fun or at least very different and you gotta figure out which you'd prefer. In terms of the quality of education, theyre probably very close, maybe a slight edge to WM.

Also a WM degree probably carries more weight in the mid atlantic and SMU in TX and the midwest.

If you have any more questions, feel free to pm me and ill do my best to answer them.