Four years abroad as ESL 'Teacher'

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jeremydc

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Re: Four years abroad as ESL 'Teacher'

Postby jeremydc » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:03 am

Yes, I understand that there will be additional qualifications needed to pursue what exactly I want to do.

It's a long shot.

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totesTheGoat

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Re: Four years abroad as ESL 'Teacher'

Postby totesTheGoat » Wed Nov 18, 2015 3:37 pm

I'm confused. Is there an actual question in this thread, or is this just a post looking for affirmation for decisions that you've already made?

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jeremydc

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Re: Four years abroad as ESL 'Teacher'

Postby jeremydc » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:20 pm

totesTheGoat wrote:I'm confused. Is there an actual question in this thread, or is this just a post looking for affirmation for decisions that you've already made?


Opinions from TLS gods :p

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fats provolone

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Re: Four years abroad as ESL 'Teacher'

Postby fats provolone » Wed Nov 18, 2015 8:22 pm

totesTheGoat wrote:I'm confused. Is there an actual question in this thread, or is this just a post looking for affirmation for decisions that you've already made?

the latter describes basically every on topic thread

porkypig

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Re: Four years abroad as ESL 'Teacher'

Postby porkypig » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:34 pm

An 'exit plan' probably shouldn't be a long shot..?

What I can tell you is that if you have a JD, they are still looking for prestige. My coworkers with JDs are all Columbia and Stanford alums (there are 3 in total). On top of that they're all at least fully trilingual--English and two Asian languages. It's not an official requirement to go to a top school or speak 3 or 4 languages for the job I'm in, but that is your eventual competition. My one coworker was born and raised in Beijing, got their JD at Stanford, two further degrees at University of Tokyo and in Taiwan, and is working on a third. They'd been studying and working for like ten years before they got this job.

People who get these kinds of jobs have extremely impressive "other" qualifications so standing out isn't going to be an issue of having a JD versus a Master's, and there are many more positions for people with Master's degrees.

Just to emphasize: none of us deals with kids. Like, ever.

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jeremydc

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Re: Four years abroad as ESL 'Teacher'

Postby jeremydc » Wed Nov 18, 2015 10:59 pm

porkypig wrote:An 'exit plan' probably shouldn't be a long shot..?

What I can tell you is that if you have a JD, they are still looking for prestige. My coworkers with JDs are all Columbia and Stanford alums (there are 3 in total). On top of that they're all at least fully trilingual--English and two Asian languages. It's not an official requirement to go to a top school or speak 3 or 4 languages for the job I'm in, but that is your eventual competition. My one coworker was born and raised in Beijing, got their JD at Stanford, two further degrees at University of Tokyo and in Taiwan, and is working on a third. They'd been studying and working for like ten years before they got this job.

People who get these kinds of jobs have extremely impressive "other" qualifications so standing out isn't going to be an issue of having a JD versus a Master's, and there are many more positions for people with Master's degrees.

Just to emphasize: none of us deals with kids. Like, ever.


Appreciate the information.

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Re: Four years abroad as ESL 'Teacher'

Postby Effingham » Wed Nov 18, 2015 11:20 pm

fats provolone wrote:
totesTheGoat wrote:I'm confused. Is there an actual question in this thread, or is this just a post looking for affirmation for decisions that you've already made?

the latter describes basically every on topic thread


To be fair, the off topics aren't much different in that respect.

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Re: Four years abroad as ESL 'Teacher'

Postby jzoffer456 » Fri Dec 18, 2015 2:12 am

jeremydc wrote:
girlrunning wrote:
jeremydc wrote:
worldtraveler wrote:You know there are international education policy programs right? I have no idea why you're looking at law school given your goals and interests.


I've spoken to a few JDs and they mentioned those programs are a dime a dozen. While both options will eventually lead to my end goal. I feel a JD will open more doors.


You're probably better off (and more qualified?) for something like this: http://www.gse.harvard.edu/masters/iep or this: https://ed.stanford.edu/academics/maste ... /ice-ieapa.

This would actually help with your future profession and I bet the students in those programs don't lack opportunities to intern/work/extern at NGOs. Law school would not help with those goals, unless maybe you did a J.D./masters or PhD combo from a school with these programs, but again, why do that when there are perfectly tailored programs at well-respected American schools?

ETA: JDs are a dime a dozen.


JDs abroad are not a dime a dozen. IN the States, sure but I don't plan on living back home for an extended period of time.

I've already completed an MA TESOL and will receive my ESL teaching license next summer.


* Thanks for the advice everyone. A PhD/JD combo sounds like a good idea. 2 birds with one expensive stone.


There are Chinese (native-born and studied in top Chinese uni that feed into many top American Law Firms in China) JD's struggling to find big law in China from HLS.

There are also fluent Chinese speaking white Americans (some lived in China for 5+ years) at HLS who failed to land American Firms in HK. They got Magic/Golden circle UK firms in HK that paid substantially less.

American firms mostly make profit from Capital Markets work in China. Chinese companies increasingly prefer to list in HK and Shanghai over NY. There is less work to go around and less hiring need for American JD's.

Law is inherently jurisdictional, with an American JD, you are not qualified to practice either Mainland Chinese nor HK law, which shuts you out from most of the legal action over there. Finally, many large U.S. firms have very small offices in China and a very small summer program (if at all). The U.S. law positions mostly go to Chinese LLM's who worked at those firms after graduating from a top Chinese law school. The remaining entry level U.S. positions will go to Chinese JD's at top U.S. law schools.

This year, there are over 30 IL's at HLS alone with Chinese citizenship and many more Chinese Americans with varying degrees of Mandarin proficiency. While most of them will want to start in the U.S., a sizable number is still competing for American firm positions in Chinese offices and they have a clear advantage over someone who went to a non-elite U.S. law school.

If you want to go to Korea, that is even more competitive. There is a similar number of Korean JD's in HLS as Chinese JD's, but the hiring need for U.S. lawyers is much lower.

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SemperLegal

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Re: Four years abroad as ESL 'Teacher'

Postby SemperLegal » Fri Dec 18, 2015 9:37 am

I've worked with NGOs and academic institutions in 12 nations, on 5 continents (fuck you, South America). So shut up and listen.

In the past, JD was king. Prior to the late nineties, the only way to show that you were a educated professional was to get a graduate degree in medicine or law. Since doctors are intrinsically valued specialists, any one who wanted to justify their white-saviour complex had to get a JD and be a "thought leader". So you ended up with white lawyers from Iowa telling Cambodians how to grow rice, NY lawyers establishing schools in Egypt.

The same thing happened domestically. JDs established everything from the CIA to the USDA because the country was thought to be divided between doers and mandarins. Obviously a farmer couldn't be trusted behind a desk and clearly any with a master's could intellectually master farming, so lawyers were the ultimate descion makers even in fields unrelated to the law (unless you could get a doctor to do it).

Those days are over, if anything we've swung too far in the other direction. Graduate school is now trade school. People can now have masters in anything from nonprofit management, educational policy, oversea operations of NGOs.

Plus, with the rise of global education and the internet, the value of the JD-Executive Director fades. In the past, legal costs were the single biggest line item for an NGO, so if you could provide those services as part of your chief executive role, you'd have an edge. Now, between the glut of pro bono work, the wide availability of local legal practitioners, and the comodization of things like international payroll, HR, customs approval, and employment law, it's easier to have a CEO who knows the substantive focus of the NGO and a few thousand dollars to outsource the rest.


TLDR: don't be an ass. Learn things that'll make you useful to both your employer and the people you want to "help".

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jeremydc

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Re: Four years abroad as ESL 'Teacher'

Postby jeremydc » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:52 pm

Appreciate the insight. I'll keep my options open.



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