Michigan or Chicago?

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

Michigan/Chicago

Chicago
39
91%
Michigan
4
9%
 
Total votes: 43

Eastboundndown
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby Eastboundndown » Mon Jun 15, 2015 11:50 pm

Chi-town

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RareExports
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby RareExports » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:47 am

I know I mentioned it earlier, but I think it warrants more discussion--have you tried negotiating at all with Michigan? They may be willing to budge on their offer, and if they are, this could be a different debate.

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chuckbass
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby chuckbass » Tue Jun 16, 2015 9:52 am

RareExports wrote:I know I mentioned it earlier, but I think it warrants more discussion--have you tried negotiating at all with Michigan? They may be willing to budge on their offer, and if they are, this could be a different debate.

Except if you're Chicago biglaw or bust.

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RareExports
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby RareExports » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:00 am

scottidsntknow wrote:
RareExports wrote:I know I mentioned it earlier, but I think it warrants more discussion--have you tried negotiating at all with Michigan? They may be willing to budge on their offer, and if they are, this could be a different debate.

Except if you're Chicago biglaw or bust.

I don't think I gathered that sentiment from OP. Even so, Mich with 125k or so in debt may be a safer play than Chi at 200k.

krads153
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby krads153 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 10:33 am

RareExports wrote:
scottidsntknow wrote:
RareExports wrote:I know I mentioned it earlier, but I think it warrants more discussion--have you tried negotiating at all with Michigan? They may be willing to budge on their offer, and if they are, this could be a different debate.

Except if you're Chicago biglaw or bust.

I don't think I gathered that sentiment from OP. Even so, Mich with 125k or so in debt may be a safer play than Chi at 200k.


This. That's a shitload of debt. Biglaw isn't worth 200k debt. HTH.

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KMart
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby KMart » Tue Jun 16, 2015 6:38 pm

RareExports wrote:
scottidsntknow wrote:
RareExports wrote:I know I mentioned it earlier, but I think it warrants more discussion--have you tried negotiating at all with Michigan? They may be willing to budge on their offer, and if they are, this could be a different debate.

Except if you're Chicago biglaw or bust.

I don't think I gathered that sentiment from OP. Even so, Mich with 125k or so in debt may be a safer play than Chi at 200k.

By no means am I Chicago biglaw or bust, I'd take a job in NY over being unemployed in Chicago, but I don't really want to head out to LA/NYC. uChi is a bit of a safer play to stay in the city than Michigan.

krads153
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby krads153 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 7:45 pm

KMart wrote:
RareExports wrote:
scottidsntknow wrote:
RareExports wrote:I know I mentioned it earlier, but I think it warrants more discussion--have you tried negotiating at all with Michigan? They may be willing to budge on their offer, and if they are, this could be a different debate.

Except if you're Chicago biglaw or bust.

I don't think I gathered that sentiment from OP. Even so, Mich with 125k or so in debt may be a safer play than Chi at 200k.

By no means am I Chicago biglaw or bust, I'd take a job in NY over being unemployed in Chicago, but I don't really want to head out to LA/NYC. uChi is a bit of a safer play to stay in the city than Michigan.


I don't think anyone's arguing about that. We just think the debt load of 200k is insane.

I'm also talking from experience after a few years in biglaw - you will likely leave biglaw with debt if you take out that much in loans. Also, the psychological stress of having a ton of loans greatly impacts a lot of people's lives (or at least it should). If you haven't lived it you won't understand, but the stress of having 200k loans in debt as opposed to say even 100k in loans is much, much, much higher IMO. When I paid mine down to less than 50k, it was like a huge breath of fresh air (which sounds ridiculous now, but you'll get what I mean). If something happens (you hate your job, etc.), you are pretty much screwed for life with 200k loans.

Anyway, it depends on your family loans are "real loans" or not. If they are "real" loans, then it seems too high imo.

If I knew then what i know now, I would have taken debt far more seriously. I personally think you should reconsider going to law school at that price.

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WeeBey
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby WeeBey » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:07 am

KMart wrote:
pkraft1 wrote:Post history says 166

Yes. Sorry I would have answered before you checked if I saw it in time. GPA is a ~3.92.


Dude, with that GPA, all thats standing in youre way from a T6 full ride is the LSAT (with over a 174 prolly). But either way, get a 170 and go to a T14 for free. Basically 1 test, 4 points are all thats in your way from making the easiest 100k of your life.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:37 am

Retake or don't go

Also I am confused why you would consider Michigan in this scenario??

eph
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby eph » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:18 am

According to popular legend you have about a 5% chance, give or take, of getting a 174. About a 30% chance of increasing your score by 4 points. Some say if you scored 3 points less than your practice scores your odds of improving increase substantially. 50% of people see no improvement or decline. I guess my point is that you should have a pretty good idea of how much effort you put into the lsat. I find it hard to image that someone who performed at such a high level over 4 years of undergrad decided to phone it in on the lsat. Chicago is a great school and 200k is a lot of money. Do you have a useful way to spend a year off and are you certain that if you get a 160 the next time that you would get into Chicago? Best of luck. These decisions are not easy.

BigZuck
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Jun 17, 2015 10:57 am

eph wrote:According to popular legend you have about a 5% chance, give or take, of getting a 174. About a 30% chance of increasing your score by 4 points. Some say if you scored 3 points less than your practice scores your odds of improving increase substantially. 50% of people see no improvement or decline. I guess my point is that you should have a pretty good idea of how much effort you put into the lsat. I find it hard to image that someone who performed at such a high level over 4 years of undergrad decided to phone it in on the lsat. Chicago is a great school and 200k is a lot of money. Do you have a useful way to spend a year off and are you certain that if you get a 160 the next time that you would get into Chicago? Best of luck. These decisions are not easy.

I think they're almost always pretty easy TBH

eph
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby eph » Wed Jun 17, 2015 11:44 am

Giving opinions is easy. Making decisions is hard. Making the right decision...priceless. MasterCard you may quote me.

This is Chicago the op is considering. 98% employment rate. 123k mean salary. It ain't breaking rocks in the hot sun. It would be easy for me to say HYS or nothing but hell those numbers are as good as ours.

krads153
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby krads153 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:22 pm

eph wrote:Giving opinions is easy. Making decisions is hard. Making the right decision...priceless. MasterCard you may quote me.

This is Chicago the op is considering. 98% employment rate. 123k mean salary. It ain't breaking rocks in the hot sun. It would be easy for me to say HYS or nothing but hell those numbers are as good as ours.


123k mean salary? with 200k loans?

Are you trying to dissuade OP from going?

123k salary cant even pay off 200k loans LOL

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KMart
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby KMart » Wed Jun 17, 2015 12:30 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:Also I am confused why you would consider Michigan in this scenario??

In my op I wrote: "I'm leaning pretty heavily one way, but wanted to see what everyone thought" with the intent of saying I was pretty sure Chicago was the right choice over Michigan but wanted to confirm.

BigZuck
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Jun 17, 2015 1:08 pm

eph wrote:Giving opinions is easy. Making decisions is hard. Making the right decision...priceless. MasterCard you may quote me.

This is Chicago the op is considering. 98% employment rate. 123k mean salary. It ain't breaking rocks in the hot sun. It would be easy for me to say HYS or nothing but hell those numbers are as good as ours.

I would expect the OP to make 160K coming out.

Anyway, it's a $250 freeroll with enormous upside. I don't think the decision to retake is difficult at all

I can understand the reapply decision is harder, but I did that when I was in my late 20s and it was NBD

Chicago is a great school. 200K is a huge amount of debt. Too much so in fact.

I don't think this one is particularly hard

Of course the OP won't retake/reapply but retaking is the right call, hopefully a future 0L will do that when they are in the same position.

eph
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby eph » Wed Jun 17, 2015 2:08 pm

Zuck you are a smart cookie and your advice well thought out and sound. I haven't posted much over the years but I have always been impressed by your contributions.

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Fiero85
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Re: Michigan or Chicago?

Postby Fiero85 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:04 pm

I'm with you, Zuck. People currently in this situation (OP) and in similar ones in the future:

1) 166/3.9+ implies retake by default. Unless you somehow landed a fully to CCN or admittance to HYS, retake the damn test. Literally do anything else during that gap year (work, travel, play xbox), study for the LSAT, and you'll likely be taking in 40-100k+ in NET INCOME for a low amount of hours put in.

2) Choosing Michigan over a CCN school for a 20k total difference is crazy.

3) Choosing CCN for 200k total over CCN for less (via retake) isn't as crazy, but is still ill advised.




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