Is UVA worth $45,000 over Michigan? Forum

[abl]

Does anyone have multi-year averages for these schools? We know that UVA somewhat outperformed Michigan in 2014. But it's really not fair to use just one year's worth of data (that could be easily influenced by Michigan having a particularly large PI community in that year) to evaluate such similar schools.

Looking at multi-year clerkship data, for example, there does seem to be a small difference between the respective clerkship rates of UVA (11.9%) and Michigan (8.9%). http://excessofdemocracy.com/blog/2014/ ... -2011-2013 Note, though, that the difference between UVA and Michigan for clerkships is three times smaller than the difference between Stanford and Harvard.

Ok, here's 2013 NLJ + clerkship: http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... p?t=203520. UVA tops Michigan by 3.1%. That's about 9 folks getting better outcomes at UVA than at Michigan out of classes of 300 (or 9 additional Michigan folks doing public interest or something else that's swell but doesn't "count").

[CanadianWolf]

Another approach: Since OP is considering a joint degree (JD/MBA), consider Michigan if you want to do both degrees since Michigan is $45,000 less than Virginia (thereby having the extra scholarship money pay for your MBA). Consider Virginia for just a JD degree with superior DC placement. The Michigan MBA may help with DC placement for the SEC & other regulatory agencies.

[Aeon]

If cost isn't a factor, consider whether you strongly prefer spending the next three years of your life at one school or the other. If you like where you go to school, you are more likely to be happier and do better in your classes, which translates to higher grades and better job prospects. If you're largely indifferent, then look to the other factors mentioned.

Geographically, UVA will generally have an easier time getting to DC; however, the same won't necessarily hold true for NY or CA, where Michigan has a stronger network.

[First Offense]

The common sense answer is to talk to your parents and explain the strengths and benefits. Point out UVA tends to do better overall, and certainly does better in DC, but Michigan is fairly strong as well. Show them raw numbers and give the context and let them decide.

[krads153]

Hell no it isn't worth what will really end up being like at least $55K more.

No school in the top 14 not named Harvard, Yale, or Stanford is worth $45K more than Michigan. It seems like no big deal now but when you get out and have to fork over an extra couple hundred dollars a month out of your pay check you won't be thinking "God I'm glad I choose UVA over Michigan".

This - paying off loans is HARD WORK and TAKES FOREVER. I don't think people realize how hard it is, to even pay off like 30k of loans. That's basically another year of biglaw.

Also Michigan has cut its class size by like 50 people since the most recent employment stats came out (Virginia had already cut its class size). So I don't think the difference is really all that big.

[xylocarp]

Hell no it isn't worth what will really end up being like at least $55K more.

No school in the top 14 not named Harvard, Yale, or Stanford is worth $45K more than Michigan. It seems like no big deal now but when you get out and have to fork over an extra couple hundred dollars a month out of your pay check you won't be thinking "God I'm glad I choose UVA over Michigan".

This - paying off loans is HARD WORK and TAKES FOREVER. I don't think people realize how hard it is, to even pay off like 30k of loans. That's basically another year of biglaw.

Also Michigan has cut its class size by like 50 people since the most recent employment stats came out (Virginia had already cut its class size). So I don't think the difference is really all that big.

OP isn't taking out loans

[krads153]

Hell no it isn't worth what will really end up being like at least $55K more.

No school in the top 14 not named Harvard, Yale, or Stanford is worth $45K more than Michigan. It seems like no big deal now but when you get out and have to fork over an extra couple hundred dollars a month out of your pay check you won't be thinking "God I'm glad I choose UVA over Michigan".

This - paying off loans is HARD WORK and TAKES FOREVER. I don't think people realize how hard it is, to even pay off like 30k of loans. That's basically another year of biglaw.

Also Michigan has cut its class size by like 50 people since the most recent employment stats came out (Virginia had already cut its class size). So I don't think the difference is really all that big.

OP isn't taking out loans

Money is still coming out of his pocket or his parents'. It takes forever to save up 45k in biglaw.

[UpandDown97]

Hell no it isn't worth what will really end up being like at least $55K more.

No school in the top 14 not named Harvard, Yale, or Stanford is worth $45K more than Michigan. It seems like no big deal now but when you get out and have to fork over an extra couple hundred dollars a month out of your pay check you won't be thinking "God I'm glad I choose UVA over Michigan".

This - paying off loans is HARD WORK and TAKES FOREVER. I don't think people realize how hard it is, to even pay off like 30k of loans. That's basically another year of biglaw.

Also Michigan has cut its class size by like 50 people since the most recent employment stats came out (Virginia had already cut its class size). So I don't think the difference is really all that big.

OP isn't taking out loans

Money is still coming out of his pocket or his parents'. It takes forever to save up 45k in biglaw.

I heard it's not all that of hard work to pay off your loans. You basically just write a check for the amount they tell you. Some will even do it directly from your pay check so you won't have to do any work at all.

JK JK, but yeah. 45K is a lot of money. I think UVA is probably worth more given your goals though. Is all else equal in terms of your preference for them? How many non-law classes can you take at Mich? at UVA you can take 4 business courses I believe.

[xylocarp]

Not saying it's not a lot of money, but telling OP to consider x amount more he'll have to take out of his biglaw paycheck per month is not relevant

[krads153]

Hell no it isn't worth what will really end up being like at least $55K more.

No school in the top 14 not named Harvard, Yale, or Stanford is worth $45K more than Michigan. It seems like no big deal now but when you get out and have to fork over an extra couple hundred dollars a month out of your pay check you won't be thinking "God I'm glad I choose UVA over Michigan".

This - paying off loans is HARD WORK and TAKES FOREVER. I don't think people realize how hard it is, to even pay off like 30k of loans. That's basically another year of biglaw.

Also Michigan has cut its class size by like 50 people since the most recent employment stats came out (Virginia had already cut its class size). So I don't think the difference is really all that big.

OP isn't taking out loans

Money is still coming out of his pocket or his parents'. It takes forever to save up 45k in biglaw.

I heard it's not all that of hard work to pay off your loans. You basically just write a check for the amount they tell you. Some will even do it directly from your pay check so you won't have to do any work at all.

JK JK, but yeah. 45K is a lot of money. I think UVA is probably worth more given your goals though. Is all else equal in terms of your preference for them? How many non-law classes can you take at Mich? at UVA you can take 4 business courses I believe.

Does that matter for dual degrees? According to Mich's website, if you do a dual JD/MBA, you can finish both degrees in 4 years. It''s similar for UVA.

Why do both JD and MBA though? JD is basically useless outside of law, and MBA is useless in law, so seems like a waste of money to do both.

https://www.law.umich.edu/curriculum/du ... ration.pdf
http://www.law.virginia.edu/html/academics/mba.htm