Best of the Rest?

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nv93
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Best of the Rest?

Postby nv93 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:22 pm

What schools are worth attending from the top 50-100? Not looking for big law. Looking for value and an out of state experience. I am from Florida. Just looking around for safeties for now.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:23 pm

Depends upon where you want to live & work after law school. Also depends upon your numbers (LSAT & GPA).

For example, if you want to practice in Georgia & can get in-state tuition or a substantial scholarship, Georgia State at under $17,000 is a great value with decent placement stats.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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UnicornHunter
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby UnicornHunter » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:26 pm

When it comes to law school, the only safety should be a) a full ride or b) not going.

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stego
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby stego » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:28 pm

Related question: are any law schools in New England worth attending if you (a) want to practice in New England (b) don't want to live in Boston and (c) can't get into Yale?

CanadianWolf
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:31 pm

Harvard does okay & technically isn't in Boston. But, otherwise, no.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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stego
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby stego » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:34 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:Harvard does okay & technically isn't in Boston.


Technically yes but practically speaking no.

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ymmv
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby ymmv » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:35 pm

stasg wrote:Related question: are any law schools in New England worth attending if you (a) want to practice in New England (b) don't want to live in Boston and (c) can't get into Yale?


Ah yes, the most common of reasons for turning down HLS.

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stego
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby stego » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:37 pm

ymmv wrote:
stasg wrote:Related question: are any law schools in New England worth attending if you (a) want to practice in New England (b) don't want to live in Boston and (c) can't get into Yale?


Ah yes, the most common of reasons for turning down HLS.


The point of my question is, do any non-T14, non-Boston law schools in New England have "strong regional in your desired market" status according to TLSers?

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ymmv
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby ymmv » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:38 pm

stasg wrote:
ymmv wrote:
stasg wrote:Related question: are any law schools in New England worth attending if you (a) want to practice in New England (b) don't want to live in Boston and (c) can't get into Yale?


Ah yes, the most common of reasons for turning down HLS.


The point of my question is, do any non-T14, non-Boston law schools in New England have "strong regional in your desired market" status according to TLSers?


There are no "strong regionals" in New England outside of Boston because there are no true secondary markets in New England outside of Boston.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:39 pm

It's Boston or bust then, if you want to go to law school in New England. Assuming that you don't have a family law firm to join after finishing law school (then attending on a full tuition scholarship is fine since you just need bar membership).

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stego
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby stego » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:50 pm

ymmv wrote:
stasg wrote:
ymmv wrote:
stasg wrote:Related question: are any law schools in New England worth attending if you (a) want to practice in New England (b) don't want to live in Boston and (c) can't get into Yale?


Ah yes, the most common of reasons for turning down HLS.


The point of my question is, do any non-T14, non-Boston law schools in New England have "strong regional in your desired market" status according to TLSers?


There are no "strong regionals" in New England outside of Boston because there are no true secondary markets in New England outside of Boston.


And to have a decent shot at Boston you need either T-14 or Boston? The rest of New England can't get you there?

CanadianWolf wrote:It's Boston or bust then, if you want to go to law school in New England. Assuming that you don't have a family law firm to join after finishing law school (then attending on a full tuition scholarship is fine since you just need bar membership).


So legal jerbs in the rest of New England aren't worth targeting (assuming it's not a family firm)?

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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:51 pm

No, you just need to designate a target market. Problem is that the non-Boston, non-Cambridge law schools just don't have good placement stats.

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stego
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby stego » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:53 pm

CanadianWolf wrote:No, you just need to designate a target market.


Anywhere in New England w/ preference to jerbs that are not in Boston.

nv93
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby nv93 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:54 pm

For me, I want to practice in Portland. Law School Transparency shows Oregon is the flagship school within the state of Orrgon, but the employment numbers are awful. Personally, I am amenable to Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Chicago, Seattle, and Phoenix as places to practice. I really love the Pacific Northwest though.

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ymmv
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby ymmv » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:56 pm

nv93 wrote:For me, I want to practice in Portland. Law School Transparency shows Oregon is the flagship school within the state of Orrgon, but the employment numbers are awful. Personally, I am amenable to Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Chicago, Seattle, and Phoenix as places to practice. I really love the Pacific Northwest though.


People with good grades in the T14 strike out at these places all the time just fyi. Secondary markets are brutally competitive even if you have regional ties. Without them you're generally fucked.

nv93
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby nv93 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:58 pm

ymmv wrote:
nv93 wrote:For me, I want to practice in Portland. Law School Transparency shows Oregon is the flagship school within the state of Orrgon, but the employment numbers are awful. Personally, I am amenable to Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Chicago, Seattle, and Phoenix as places to practice. I really love the Pacific Northwest though.


People with good grades in the T14 strike out at these places all the time just fyi. Secondary markets are brutally competitive even if you have regional ties. Without them you're generally fucked.


I can see why since those are major American cities. So what is a good regional school to look at in the top 50-100?

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ymmv
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby ymmv » Wed Jun 10, 2015 10:58 pm

nv93 wrote:
ymmv wrote:
nv93 wrote:For me, I want to practice in Portland. Law School Transparency shows Oregon is the flagship school within the state of Orrgon, but the employment numbers are awful. Personally, I am amenable to Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Chicago, Seattle, and Phoenix as places to practice. I really love the Pacific Northwest though.


People with good grades in the T14 strike out at these places all the time just fyi. Secondary markets are brutally competitive even if you have regional ties. Without them you're generally fucked.


I can see why since those are major American cities. So what is a good regional school to look at in the top 50-100?


What kind of job do you want? What kind of lawyer do you think you want to be? What does the word "regional" mean to you?

nv93
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby nv93 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:03 pm

ymmv wrote:
nv93 wrote:
ymmv wrote:
nv93 wrote:For me, I want to practice in Portland. Law School Transparency shows Oregon is the flagship school within the state of Orrgon, but the employment numbers are awful. Personally, I am amenable to Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Chicago, Seattle, and Phoenix as places to practice. I really love the Pacific Northwest though.


People with good grades in the T14 strike out at these places all the time just fyi. Secondary markets are brutally competitive even if you have regional ties. Without them you're generally fucked.


I can see why since those are major American cities. So what is a good regional school to look at in the top 50-100?


What kind of job do you want? What kind of lawyer do you think you want to be? What does the word "regional" mean to you?


I want to do International Law, Corporate, or some form of arbitration or dispute resolution. Regional to me is like Indiana Bloomington being great within Indiana but nothing else beyond that. 51-100 is pretty much just schools that are good in a region at best if they're lucky. Obviously IU is well beyond top 50. My target school is FSU for now. I would love to attend UNC, but idk how I did on the June test. But those are above the top 50 mark.

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ymmv
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby ymmv » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:07 pm

nv93 wrote:
ymmv wrote:
nv93 wrote:
ymmv wrote:
nv93 wrote:For me, I want to practice in Portland. Law School Transparency shows Oregon is the flagship school within the state of Orrgon, but the employment numbers are awful. Personally, I am amenable to Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Chicago, Seattle, and Phoenix as places to practice. I really love the Pacific Northwest though.


People with good grades in the T14 strike out at these places all the time just fyi. Secondary markets are brutally competitive even if you have regional ties. Without them you're generally fucked.


I can see why since those are major American cities. So what is a good regional school to look at in the top 50-100?


What kind of job do you want? What kind of lawyer do you think you want to be? What does the word "regional" mean to you?


I want to do International Law,


This isn't what you think it is. Or if you mean international human rights work, you almost certainly won't get this from a T50-T100.

Corporate,


There's no such thing as corporate outside a major market and even then there's not much outside of New York.

or some form of arbitration or dispute resolution.


These jobs are almost entirely occupied by highly experienced litigators from major firms.

Regional to me is like Indiana Bloomington being great within Indiana but nothing else beyond that. 51-100 is pretty much just schools that are good in a region at best if they're lucky. Obviously IU is well beyond top 50. My target school is FSU for now. I would love to attend UNC, but idk how I did on the June test. But those are above the top 50 mark.


None of the things you think you want are likely at all to happen from these schools.

nv93
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby nv93 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:12 pm

ymmv wrote:
nv93 wrote:
ymmv wrote:
nv93 wrote:
ymmv wrote:
nv93 wrote:For me, I want to practice in Portland. Law School Transparency shows Oregon is the flagship school within the state of Orrgon, but the employment numbers are awful. Personally, I am amenable to Dallas, Miami, Atlanta, Minneapolis, Chicago, Seattle, and Phoenix as places to practice. I really love the Pacific Northwest though.


People with good grades in the T14 strike out at these places all the time just fyi. Secondary markets are brutally competitive even if you have regional ties. Without them you're generally fucked.


I can see why since those are major American cities. So what is a good regional school to look at in the top 50-100?


What kind of job do you want? What kind of lawyer do you think you want to be? What does the word "regional" mean to you?


I want to do International Law,


This isn't what you think it is. Or if you mean international human rights work, you almost certainly won't get this from a T50-T100.

Corporate,


There's no such thing as corporate outside a major market and even then there's not much outside of New York.

or some form of arbitration or dispute resolution.


These jobs are almost entirely occupied by highly experienced litigators from major firms.

Regional to me is like Indiana Bloomington being great within Indiana but nothing else beyond that. 51-100 is pretty much just schools that are good in a region at best if they're lucky. Obviously IU is well beyond top 50. My target school is FSU for now. I would love to attend UNC, but idk how I did on the June test. But those are above the top 50 mark.


None of the things you think you want are likely at all to happen from these schools.


So what about those U.S. News sub rankings in like International Law (American U)? I meant private international law if anything. What about seeking employment in Canada? The market there is probably relative to the U.S.? I don't see myself practicing beyond 15 years. I could see myself transitioning to working on Wallstreet after.

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deadpanic
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby deadpanic » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:14 pm

Not sure why it took so long before someone told you the rankings from 50-100 are meaningless. It does not matter. UNC is in the 30s or 40s, whatever it is, but it could be ranked 107 by US News and it would still carry the same reputation in the state. You still should not go there if you are not from NC and do not want to work there.

For ADR/arbitration, guess it depends on the market and the type of case. A lot of small firm family law attorneys do it, or sometimes judges after they retire or lose an election. Still, it is only an option after many years of litigation or judicial experience so it isn't a realistic goal. You also just need a really good local rep to get business.

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deadpanic
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby deadpanic » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:17 pm

nv93 wrote:So what about those U.S. News sub rankings in like International Law (American U)? I meant private international law if anything. What about seeking employment in Canada? The market there is probably relative to the U.S.? I don't see myself practicing beyond 15 years. I could see myself transitioning to working on Wallstreet after.


The rankings are worthless. American is one of the very worst law schools. I believe you are disillusioned that attorneys are super high-powered and get to do a lot of international traveling, or can just transition to a high-paying investment banking position after practicing a few years. None of that is realistic, even for a Yale grad.

nv93
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby nv93 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:18 pm

deadpanic wrote:Not sure why it took so long before someone told you the rankings from 50-100 are meaningless. It does not matter. UNC is in the 30s or 40s, whatever it is, but it could be ranked 107 by US News and it would still carry the same reputation in the state. You still should not go there if you are not from NC and do not want to work there.

For ADR/arbitration, guess it depends on the market and the type of case. A lot of small firm family law attorneys do it, or sometimes judges after they retire or lose an election. Still, it is only an option after many years of litigation or judicial experience so it isn't a realistic goal. You also just need a really good local rep to get business.


So the best option for someone living in Florida is FSU?

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deadpanic
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby deadpanic » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:19 pm

nv93 wrote:
deadpanic wrote:Not sure why it took so long before someone told you the rankings from 50-100 are meaningless. It does not matter. UNC is in the 30s or 40s, whatever it is, but it could be ranked 107 by US News and it would still carry the same reputation in the state. You still should not go there if you are not from NC and do not want to work there.

For ADR/arbitration, guess it depends on the market and the type of case. A lot of small firm family law attorneys do it, or sometimes judges after they retire or lose an election. Still, it is only an option after many years of litigation or judicial experience so it isn't a realistic goal. You also just need a really good local rep to get business.


So the best option for someone living in Florida is FSU?


If you want to practice in Florida, UF or FSU at a reasonable cost is way better than any other option outside of the T14 with $.

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ymmv
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Re: Best of the Rest?

Postby ymmv » Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:19 pm

Definite flame, /thread.




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