UPenn Vs Michigan

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marowl0
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UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby marowl0 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:37 am

I am looking to decide between UPenn and Michigan Law. My situation is unique so bare with me for a second. Michigan has offered 25k a year UPenn would be sticker. However, I have my GI Bill that will cover full tuition at both schools for 2 1/2 years. Essentially this is how it breaks down:
UPenn: full tuition for 2 1/2 years plus 1k a year for books and 2k a month while attending classes (Jan-May/Aug-Dec) for living expenses. All tuition and expenses out of pocket for last semester (around 35K)

Michigan: full tuition for 2 1/2 years 1k a year for books 1600 a month while attending classes (Jan-May/Aug-Dec) plus 9k a semester from school out of the scholarship (the advisor told me that any excess scholarship money is given to the student up to the calculated COL for the school). All tuition and expenses for the last semester out of pocket (around 27K)

I have no desire to do traditional BigLaw (corporate type). My goals in decending order are Fed Clerkship, Con Law, BigGov, Civil Rights Law, Public Interest. Penn concerns me due to the fact that they seem to place little emphasis on PI or BigGov with 70% of their class going into NYC Big Law. Michigan worries me due to their unemployment numbers and the fact that they fell out of the top 10 this year. What should I do?

MadwomanintheAttic
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby MadwomanintheAttic » Mon Jun 08, 2015 6:55 am

Penn. You're looking at an 8k difference between the schools and I think Penn is worth 8k more than Michigan. Just because more students self-select into PI at Michigan doesn't mean Penn doesn't have a dedicated PI community. They also seem to provide the resources for PI via their Toll Public Interest Center. I think you'll have more opportunities coming out of Penn than you would at Michigan and for 8k more it's worth it.

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Mon Jun 08, 2015 7:02 am

I would definitely opt for Penn here. Congrats on a great outcome.

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ballcaps
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby ballcaps » Mon Jun 08, 2015 8:15 am

penn is easily worth $8k over michigan

congratulations

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TasmanianToucan
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby TasmanianToucan » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:02 am

Penn. People to go into biglaw because they have to pay off dem loans, not because that's the only job they can get.

Eastboundndown
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby Eastboundndown » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:24 am

Penn - definitely worth the $8k difference

Congrats!

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Mon Jun 08, 2015 12:01 pm

Penn definitely

marowl0
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby marowl0 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:47 pm

Thanks for the replys so far and this is from my phone so please excuse any typos. I was really unclear in my original post so I figured I would explain further. With Penn the school will cost me 37k for the las semester so total cost for Penn is 37k. At Michigan I will actually intake 45k over the first 2 1/2 years plus my monthly stipend. So at Michigan I will actually make around 20k to go to law school where as at Penn it will cost me 37k or so. Is it still worth it?

CanadianWolf
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:50 pm

Michigan would be a great choice given your updated information.

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Kinky John
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby Kinky John » Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:50 pm

Where do you want to practice? DC?

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Mon Jun 08, 2015 2:53 pm

I'd honestly take Penn still based on the employment data (+24% BL+FC for Penn, inb4 michigan students cry self selection). But it just depends on how you weigh employment safety vs debt, either are defensible.

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trebekismyhero
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby trebekismyhero » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:03 pm

Personally I would take Michigan in this situation, but if you want to be in DC and BigFed is your main goal then Penn is not a bad choice

BillClinton Jr
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby BillClinton Jr » Mon Jun 08, 2015 3:09 pm

Full disclosure: I am on the Penn Waitlist

Still, in all honesty I think most folks in this thread are right, even at the extra cost Penn is worth it BUT that is NOT to say coming out of law school having made money from a strong school like UMich is a bad choice. Either way you've got great options. I did use the GI Bill for undergrad so use it to it's fullest

marowl0
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby marowl0 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:25 pm

I honestly dont care where I practice for BigFed it will most likely be in DC but location simply doesnt matter. My fear for Penn is I go and find out that Gov and PI recruiters essentially ignore it due to lack if student interest and I end up paying for a job that I dont want. My fear at Michigan is I go and it continues to fall and I end up having to take a job I dont want because it, god forbid, fell out of the top 14. Update on Penn talked to their Government/PI career counselor and she said most people opt out of Gov due to the difficulty getting those jobs...so how does Michigan place 4x more people in them with a lower rank?

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trebekismyhero
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby trebekismyhero » Mon Jun 08, 2015 4:48 pm

marowl0 wrote:I honestly dont care where I practice for BigFed it will most likely be in DC but location simply doesnt matter. My fear for Penn is I go and find out that Gov and PI recruiters essentially ignore it due to lack if student interest and I end up paying for a job that I dont want. My fear at Michigan is I go and it continues to fall and I end up having to take a job I dont want because it, god forbid, fell out of the top 14. Update on Penn talked to their Government/PI career counselor and she said most people opt out of Gov due to the difficulty getting those jobs...so how does Michigan place 4x more people in them with a lower rank?


Michigan is not falling out of the t14 so that is not a reason to not go there. I would talk to Michigan students about their PI experiences and then decide. But it does seem that Michigan is more PI focused so might have more resources for that.

marowl0
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby marowl0 » Mon Jun 08, 2015 9:54 pm

So seems like everyone else is pretty torn so is there a bad choice here? Will I, with hard work and good grades of course, have the chance to accomplish my goals from either school?

CanadianWolf
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby CanadianWolf » Mon Jun 08, 2015 10:14 pm

Yes. Folks who graduate Michigan Law & UPenn Law are in a position to get the best jobs available in the legal field.

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bruinfan10
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby bruinfan10 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:28 pm

50 grand is a lot of money. I didn't think that going into law school. I do now. But UPenn is safer. But you're paying for it.

marowl0
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby marowl0 » Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:32 pm

Where did you go? And do you regret the debt now?

nordi
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby nordi » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:25 pm

Come to Michigan. Enjoy life more. Be less poor.

marowl0
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby marowl0 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:15 am

The less poor thing is definitely a huge plus just unsure if its a big enough plus to put Michigan ahead

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LA Spring
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby LA Spring » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:24 am

My assumption is that if you’re below median at Mich, you’re likely in trouble. Not so much with Penn.

marowl0
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby marowl0 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 11:54 am

I have to assume that you are correct due to the employment numbers. Penn has done amazing with placement over the last 4 years whereas Michigan has been down a bit since they lost their home market in Detroit. However, with my goals of BigGov or BigLaw in mind those numbers change slightly with only 9 people going into Gov from Penn and 44 going from Michigan. Any thoughts on that discrepancy?

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LA Spring
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby LA Spring » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:00 pm

What does BigGov pay? If it’s not $160K on up, that might be the answer.

marowl0
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Re: UPenn Vs Michigan

Postby marowl0 » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:17 pm

It definitely isn't near what BigLaw pays, starting is around 64k a year. However, it isn't like Michigan grads don't have loans to pay off and Michigan isn't some terrible school it places over half of its class in BigLaw so the opportunities are there. Though I understand your point that Penn grads are self-selecting out of the gov. I am just arguing points in order to fully grasp all aspects of the issue.




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