Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

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efo415
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Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby efo415 » Tue May 26, 2015 7:46 pm

Schools: UI vs. UMich

Michigan debt at repayment: $150,000, no scholarship as of yet (accepted off waitlist)
UIUC debt at repayment: $40,000 after full tuition scholarship

-How you will be financing your COA: Federal loans

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any): Chicago, Bay Area, DC, NY, but flexible for anywhere.

-Your general career goals: Business/Corporate, Gov (white collar crime)

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers: 161/3.3

-How many times you have taken the LSAT: Once

-URM, Strong softs and LORs

- 3 years work experience for Government

Also waitlisted at BU, UW, GW, W&M, and Davis.

PoopNpants
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby PoopNpants » Tue May 26, 2015 7:51 pm

Michigan at sticker isn't an option
It's going to be way more than 150k upon repayment if your financing solely through federal loans
How many times have you taken the LSAT?
If it's anything less than 3, than re-take

californiauser
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby californiauser » Tue May 26, 2015 8:51 pm

nvm

retake
Last edited by californiauser on Tue May 26, 2015 9:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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universityof
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby universityof » Tue May 26, 2015 8:54 pm

Hold up. Are we talking about Iowa or UIUC?

efo415
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby efo415 » Tue May 26, 2015 8:58 pm

universityof wrote:Hold up. Are we talking about Iowa or UIUC?


Iowa. University of Iowa.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandr ... iowa-03059

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ndirish2010
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby ndirish2010 » Tue May 26, 2015 8:59 pm

Retake.

Nomo
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby Nomo » Tue May 26, 2015 9:16 pm

I"m assuming you haven't calculated living expenses, tuition increases, loan origination fees, or interest that accrues while you're in school. For Michigan, your debt at repayment is going to be nearly twice the amount you're listing.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Tue May 26, 2015 9:32 pm

Retake > Iowa > Start a Cash 4 Gold Business > Join the Circus > Michigan at this price

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Tue May 26, 2015 9:41 pm

ndirish2010 wrote:Retake.

PoopNpants
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby PoopNpants » Tue May 26, 2015 9:44 pm

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:Retake > Iowa > Start a Cash 4 Gold Business > Join the Circus > Michigan at this price


haha this made me Lol outloud

MadwomanintheAttic
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby MadwomanintheAttic » Tue May 26, 2015 9:51 pm

Michigan sticker is $270,473 with interest and assuming absolutely no aid (SOURCE: Law School Transparency). Don't do it. You've only taken the LSAT once; a few more points opens up a lot more opportunities for you. You owe it to yourself to retake and have access to better options.

03152016
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby 03152016 » Tue May 26, 2015 10:02 pm

surprised you got into mich

anyways, i'm perplexed by your numbers, bc you said uiuc fully but 40k at repayment, so you're clearly factoring in COL
but you list $150k at sticker even though that's less than just the cost of tuition, not even taking into account fees and interest

unless there's some secret catch we don't know about, your numbers are off. you need to do more research
look into what expenses you'll likely incur in law school, tuition and COL inflation, interest, origination fees, deferment, etc
checking out the cost of attendance page at each school you're considering, lawschooltransparency, and lawschool22's cost calculator would be a good start. you can just google all of those terms. also, check out the student loan actual numbers thread on tls, and reach out to current students on the board or irl to get a more accurate picture of your expenses than the school's estimates

because i believe the $150k figure is not accurate, i won't weigh in on mich until we get the whole story. if it's true sticker, no
if by business/corporate you envision large firm work, iowa is too risky, so i'd pass on that personally

JOThompson
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby JOThompson » Thu May 28, 2015 1:01 pm

I had a similar dilemma when I applied in 2010. I chose Iowa with the full-ride. As my next best option was a lower T20 at nearly full price, I don't regret it. If I could do it over, I would have actually gone to a T2 school for free in an area that I actually wanted to work in long term. Iowa will limit you to the midwest (and not even the more desirable cities like Chicago or MPLS), unless you have stellar grades, connections, and do a lot of legwork. Even if your goal is Des Moines, you'll face stiff competition from Drake T3 graduates. Iowa just doesn't have a market that it feeds into reliably and that makes its ranking very deceptive for employment purposes.

My advice to you is to keep your debt as low as possible. The legal market is tough now -- there is a surplus of lawyers. Many of my 2013 Iowa classmates are still unemployed or working in non-law jobs. Most of them would tell you that they wish they kept their debt low. $700 a month in loan payments is painful especially if you are underemployed.

bcmax
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby bcmax » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:35 pm

JOThompson wrote:I had a similar dilemma when I applied in 2010. I chose Iowa with the full-ride. As my next best option was a lower T20 at nearly full price, I don't regret it. If I could do it over, I would have actually gone to a T2 school for free in an area that I actually wanted to work in long term. Iowa will limit you to the midwest (and not even the more desirable cities like Chicago or MPLS), unless you have stellar grades, connections, and do a lot of legwork. Even if your goal is Des Moines, you'll face stiff competition from Drake T3 graduates. Iowa just doesn't have a market that it feeds into reliably and that makes its ranking very deceptive for employment purposes.

My advice to you is to keep your debt as low as possible. The legal market is tough now -- there is a surplus of lawyers. Many of my 2013 Iowa classmates are still unemployed or working in non-law jobs. Most of them would tell you that they wish they kept their debt low. $700 a month in loan payments is painful especially if you are underemployed.


I am at Iowa now with a full ride and also was accepted at Michigan. If I was in a similar situation I would still choose Iowa. I managed to get a 1L SA position in MPLS and did not have stellar grades (first semester GPA = 3.5) or connections. On top of all of that all of the professors are super personable and serious about helping you find a job. If you ever have any questions about Iowa feel free to message me!

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:06 pm

OhBoyOhBortles wrote:
ndirish2010 wrote:Retake.


Why does it say UIUC in OP also wut
Last edited by Mack.Hambleton on Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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chuckbass
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby chuckbass » Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:07 pm

bcmax wrote:
JOThompson wrote:I had a similar dilemma when I applied in 2010. I chose Iowa with the full-ride. As my next best option was a lower T20 at nearly full price, I don't regret it. If I could do it over, I would have actually gone to a T2 school for free in an area that I actually wanted to work in long term. Iowa will limit you to the midwest (and not even the more desirable cities like Chicago or MPLS), unless you have stellar grades, connections, and do a lot of legwork. Even if your goal is Des Moines, you'll face stiff competition from Drake T3 graduates. Iowa just doesn't have a market that it feeds into reliably and that makes its ranking very deceptive for employment purposes.

My advice to you is to keep your debt as low as possible. The legal market is tough now -- there is a surplus of lawyers. Many of my 2013 Iowa classmates are still unemployed or working in non-law jobs. Most of them would tell you that they wish they kept their debt low. $700 a month in loan payments is painful especially if you are underemployed.


I am at Iowa now with a full ride and also was accepted at Michigan. If I was in a similar situation I would still choose Iowa. I managed to get a 1L SA position in MPLS and did not have stellar grades (first semester GPA = 3.5) or connections. On top of all of that all of the professors are super personable and serious about helping you find a job. If you ever have any questions about Iowa feel free to message me!

I don't think your special snowflake outcome is very representative of the outcomes from Iowa tbh.

bcmax
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby bcmax » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:01 pm

scottidsntknow wrote:
bcmax wrote:
JOThompson wrote:I had a similar dilemma when I applied in 2010. I chose Iowa with the full-ride. As my next best option was a lower T20 at nearly full price, I don't regret it. If I could do it over, I would have actually gone to a T2 school for free in an area that I actually wanted to work in long term. Iowa will limit you to the midwest (and not even the more desirable cities like Chicago or MPLS), unless you have stellar grades, connections, and do a lot of legwork. Even if your goal is Des Moines, you'll face stiff competition from Drake T3 graduates. Iowa just doesn't have a market that it feeds into reliably and that makes its ranking very deceptive for employment purposes.

My advice to you is to keep your debt as low as possible. The legal market is tough now -- there is a surplus of lawyers. Many of my 2013 Iowa classmates are still unemployed or working in non-law jobs. Most of them would tell you that they wish they kept their debt low. $700 a month in loan payments is painful especially if you are underemployed.


I am at Iowa now with a full ride and also was accepted at Michigan. If I was in a similar situation I would still choose Iowa. I managed to get a 1L SA position in MPLS and did not have stellar grades (first semester GPA = 3.5) or connections. On top of all of that all of the professors are super personable and serious about helping you find a job. If you ever have any questions about Iowa feel free to message me!

I don't think your special snowflake outcome is very representative of the outcomes from Iowa tbh.


Maybe not, but we I know we have 7 1Ls in the twin cities; 6 of us are at firms. I also know other 1Ls at firms in Chicago, KC, STL, Des Moines, and Omaha. Based on that Iowa is a good place to be if your goal is to stay in the Midwest. Honestly I do not know if anyone is a 1L SA at an east/west coast firm, but this year for OCI we have larger firms from at least the east coast coming (NY).

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chuckbass
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby chuckbass » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:10 pm

So what about the rest of the class that doesn't end up so well off? And by rest I mean majority.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:22 pm

Like 85-90% of Iowa grads aren't getting biglaw idk who you're trying to convince

bcmax
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby bcmax » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:43 pm

Maybe not what you consider big law, but quite a few people end up at mid-sized law firms. I think the class of 2015 didn't do so well just in general getting jobs. I know a that there are rising 3Ls working at large firms in large markets (i.e. Skadden). I think the people who succeed at getting 1L SA positions from Iowa (and who are not URMs) are those who develop relationships with professors early on. I know I had two professors send my resume out to various alum partners at large firms and that those partners then sent my resume to the hiring committee. I don't know if at larger schools that happens so easily, but it might! Not saying anyone should turn down HYS for Iowa, but I really think that a full ride at Iowa and doing somewhat well is going to leave you way better off then being at Michigan for sticker and doing mediocre.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:43 pm

Michigan at sticker would be the worst decision of your life
no way in the world the degree is worth that.

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gnomgnomuch
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby gnomgnomuch » Thu Jun 25, 2015 11:47 pm

Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:Michigan at sticker would be the worst decision of your life
no way in the world the degree is worth that.



Really?? Has Michigan really dropped that steeply employment wise?

PoopNpants
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby PoopNpants » Fri Jun 26, 2015 12:25 am

gnomgnomuch wrote:
Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:Michigan at sticker would be the worst decision of your life
no way in the world the degree is worth that.



Really?? Has Michigan really dropped that steeply employment wise?


Most people with common sense will say any school including HYS isn't worth that kind've debt. Whats the point of making bank ($160,000 +) if you end up paying a shit ton ($3,000+) a months for 10 YEARS

TransferHopeful17
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby TransferHopeful17 » Fri Jun 26, 2015 8:45 am

efo415 wrote:-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any): Chicago, Bay Area, DC, NY, but flexible for anywhere.


It's a big leap from Chicago, Bay Area, DC, and NY to "but flexible anywhere."

If you can't see yourself in Des Moines, I would retake. Everyone thinks they're going to finish at the top of the class.

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gnomgnomuch
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Re: Iowa (Full ride) vs Michigan (Sticker)

Postby gnomgnomuch » Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:20 am

PoopNpants wrote:
gnomgnomuch wrote:
Hutz_and_Goodman wrote:Michigan at sticker would be the worst decision of your life
no way in the world the degree is worth that.



Really?? Has Michigan really dropped that steeply employment wise?


Most people with common sense will say any school including HYS isn't worth that kind've debt. Whats the point of making bank ($160,000 +) if you end up paying a shit ton ($3,000+) a months for 10 YEARS


Fair enough, I thought you meant more along the lines of UMich doesn't give you that good a shot of servicing that debt and that's why it would be such a bad decision. (Personally, I don't think I'd go over 100k for H and 150k for YS, but that's just me.)




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