Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

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Jaydee
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby Jaydee » Sun May 31, 2015 7:00 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
snagglepuss wrote:I know that at least 1/4 of people attending WM intend to return to a business / JD-advantage job upon graduation. The school attracts way more of these types than any T1 or T14 school I know of. WM's brand continues to take a hit each year, but the school was once well-respected and still is to a degree in Minnesota. However, I would not advise someone without a significant scholarship and years of work experience to ever attend the school, but it makes sense for a number of people (particularly through their part-time or online programs) especially when you consider most students are not incurring any additional, law school-related cost of living expenses.

We need to do a better job of tailoring advice to thread OPs. This online WM program may very well be a great option for Jaydee.


I will not believe that this or any other crap school is worth it until someone cites to me, with specificity, at least one job that 1) requires or strongly prefers a JD, 2) would not typically be filled by one of the many desperate under- or un-employed graduates of better law schools, and 3) would provide better pay/job security than whatever job a typical prospective student with many years of experience would otherwise continue working.


Law enforcement. In some departments in Massachusetts you get educational incentive pay: 10% for a bachelor's, 18% for a masters and 28% for a doctorate. The JD counts as a doctorate if it's from an ABA accredited school.
In this case the WM online degree would make sense

BigZuck
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby BigZuck » Sun May 31, 2015 7:42 pm

Is the program 28K a year, every year, for 4 years?

And you have to fly out there for in person components?

Cheap online programs is one thing. But 110K tuition and having to fly out there for in person stuff sounds expensive AF (even if you do get like a half ride)

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Sun May 31, 2015 8:43 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
snagglepuss wrote:I know that at least 1/4 of people attending WM intend to return to a business / JD-advantage job upon graduation. The school attracts way more of these types than any T1 or T14 school I know of. WM's brand continues to take a hit each year, but the school was once well-respected and still is to a degree in Minnesota. However, I would not advise someone without a significant scholarship and years of work experience to ever attend the school, but it makes sense for a number of people (particularly through their part-time or online programs) especially when you consider most students are not incurring any additional, law school-related cost of living expenses.

We need to do a better job of tailoring advice to thread OPs. This online WM program may very well be a great option for Jaydee.


I will not believe that this or any other crap school is worth it until someone cites to me, with specificity, at least one job that 1) requires or strongly prefers a JD, 2) would not typically be filled by one of the many desperate under- or un-employed graduates of better law schools, and 3) would provide better pay/job security than whatever job a typical prospective student with many years of experience would otherwise continue working.

I'm pretty sure the point is that for someone who already has a job, and who can move up in that job if they get a JD, and doesn't want to quit their job and move but has no part-time LS local to them, an online program would be fine. It's the theory behind the California-only-accredited online programs in California, but available to people who want to be barred elsewhere than California. Given that situation, one ABA accredited online program seems perfectly fine. It's not nearly as much of a ripoff as the full time brick/mortar TTTTs who act as if they're competing with top schools. It would be better if it were cheaper and it sounds entirely unsuitable for anyone who wants the outcome of a traditional law school, so it needs to market itself appropriately, but I don't think it's a ripoff the way that Cooley or TJSL are.


To me, none of them are worth it. I do not understand how or why someone would need a JD to "move up" in a non-legal job. It makes no sense. I understand that compliance jobs and the like may draw upon some very limited amount of background knowledge that you pick up in law school, but I find it very hard to believe that you couldn't move farther along in your career by simply working more diligently at your actual job rather than wasting an inordinate amount of time getting a JD.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Sun May 31, 2015 8:47 pm

Jaydee wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
snagglepuss wrote:I know that at least 1/4 of people attending WM intend to return to a business / JD-advantage job upon graduation. The school attracts way more of these types than any T1 or T14 school I know of. WM's brand continues to take a hit each year, but the school was once well-respected and still is to a degree in Minnesota. However, I would not advise someone without a significant scholarship and years of work experience to ever attend the school, but it makes sense for a number of people (particularly through their part-time or online programs) especially when you consider most students are not incurring any additional, law school-related cost of living expenses.

We need to do a better job of tailoring advice to thread OPs. This online WM program may very well be a great option for Jaydee.


I will not believe that this or any other crap school is worth it until someone cites to me, with specificity, at least one job that 1) requires or strongly prefers a JD, 2) would not typically be filled by one of the many desperate under- or un-employed graduates of better law schools, and 3) would provide better pay/job security than whatever job a typical prospective student with many years of experience would otherwise continue working.


Law enforcement. In some departments in Massachusetts you get educational incentive pay: 10% for a bachelor's, 18% for a masters and 28% for a doctorate. The JD counts as a doctorate if it's from an ABA accredited school.
In this case the WM online degree would make sense


A one-time bonus of 28% hardly compensates for the amount of time and money you're going to pour into getting a part-time JD--still not worth it IMO.

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haus
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby haus » Sun May 31, 2015 9:05 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
snagglepuss wrote:I know that at least 1/4 of people attending WM intend to return to a business / JD-advantage job upon graduation. The school attracts way more of these types than any T1 or T14 school I know of. WM's brand continues to take a hit each year, but the school was once well-respected and still is to a degree in Minnesota. However, I would not advise someone without a significant scholarship and years of work experience to ever attend the school, but it makes sense for a number of people (particularly through their part-time or online programs) especially when you consider most students are not incurring any additional, law school-related cost of living expenses.

We need to do a better job of tailoring advice to thread OPs. This online WM program may very well be a great option for Jaydee.


I will not believe that this or any other crap school is worth it until someone cites to me, with specificity, at least one job that 1) requires or strongly prefers a JD, 2) would not typically be filled by one of the many desperate under- or un-employed graduates of better law schools, and 3) would provide better pay/job security than whatever job a typical prospective student with many years of experience would otherwise continue working.

I'm pretty sure the point is that for someone who already has a job, and who can move up in that job if they get a JD, and doesn't want to quit their job and move but has no part-time LS local to them, an online program would be fine. It's the theory behind the California-only-accredited online programs in California, but available to people who want to be barred elsewhere than California. Given that situation, one ABA accredited online program seems perfectly fine. It's not nearly as much of a ripoff as the full time brick/mortar TTTTs who act as if they're competing with top schools. It would be better if it were cheaper and it sounds entirely unsuitable for anyone who wants the outcome of a traditional law school, so it needs to market itself appropriately, but I don't think it's a ripoff the way that Cooley or TJSL are.


To me, none of them are worth it. I do not understand how or why someone would need a JD to "move up" in a non-legal job. It makes no sense. I understand that compliance jobs and the like may draw upon some very limited amount of background knowledge that you pick up in law school, but I find it very hard to believe that you couldn't move farther along in your career by simply working more diligently at your actual job rather than wasting an inordinate amount of time getting a JD.

Well for that matter, few if any jobs, does it make sense to require any type of academic degree.

Do you think that the specific skills and abilities gained in pursuing a BS or an MS or an MBA directly changes someone in a fundamental way that could not be achieved through other methods? Yet these credentials, any many others like them, become key differentiators, if not out and out requirements in tons of jobs.

I will tell you without hesitation that the best pentester/overall security professional I know did not complete high school, but he is brilliant, he has found tons of vulnerabilities in a wide variety of platforms desktops, servers (Win, Linux, Unix, Mac), networking equipment, mobile equipment, the list just keeps going. He presents himself well, and frequently travels to present at security/hacker conferences all over the place. We have worked together for years, and although he is well compensated, there are roles that he will simply not be considered for (at least not in this current org, and likely the industry). It does not matter that he is better than almost everyone else, as there are hoops that need to be jumped through, even if the impact of the specific hoops are minimal at best. It is simply the cost of a seat at the table.

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haus
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby haus » Sun May 31, 2015 9:08 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:A one-time bonus of 28% hardly compensates for the amount of time and money you're going to pour into getting a part-time JD--still not worth it IMO.

That is likely at 28% change to one's base salary. That can add up nicely, especially in setting higher ground for jobs that base your pension (remember those things) based upon your salary.

ETA: Especially considering that many of these jobs offer tuition assitance, that in conjunction with a scholarship, can massively reduce the cost factor for the degree. Sadly it does little to nothing for the time factor.

Jaydee
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby Jaydee » Sun May 31, 2015 9:30 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
Jaydee wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
snagglepuss wrote:I know that at least 1/4 of people attending WM intend to return to a business / JD-advantage job upon graduation. The school attracts way more of these types than any T1 or T14 school I know of. WM's brand continues to take a hit each year, but the school was once well-respected and still is to a degree in Minnesota. However, I would not advise someone without a significant scholarship and years of work experience to ever attend the school, but it makes sense for a number of people (particularly through their part-time or online programs) especially when you consider most students are not incurring any additional, law school-related cost of living expenses.

We need to do a better job of tailoring advice to thread OPs. This online WM program may very well be a great option for Jaydee.


I will not believe that this or any other crap school is worth it until someone cites to me, with specificity, at least one job that 1) requires or strongly prefers a JD, 2) would not typically be filled by one of the many desperate under- or un-employed graduates of better law schools, and 3) would provide better pay/job security than whatever job a typical prospective student with many years of experience would otherwise continue working.


Law enforcement. In some departments in Massachusetts you get educational incentive pay: 10% for a bachelor's, 18% for a masters and 28% for a doctorate. The JD counts as a doctorate if it's from an ABA accredited school.
In this case the WM online degree would make sense


A one-time bonus of 28% hardly compensates for the amount of time and money you're going to pour into getting a part-time JD--still not worth it IMO.


It's 28% annually. If you're a captain making $135/year then that's 37K+ a year until you retire. And when you retire half of that 37K will be pensionable.

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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby BigZuck » Sun May 31, 2015 10:03 pm

BigZuck wrote:Is the program 28K a year, every year, for 4 years?

And you have to fly out there for in person components?

Cheap online programs is one thing. But 110K tuition and having to fly out there for in person stuff sounds expensive AF (even if you do get like a half ride)

BUMP

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haus
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby haus » Sun May 31, 2015 10:21 pm

BigZuck wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Is the program 28K a year, every year, for 4 years?

And you have to fly out there for in person components?

Cheap online programs is one thing. But 110K tuition and having to fly out there for in person stuff sounds expensive AF (even if you do get like a half ride)

BUMP

Sorry missed this. Yes the current program requires 10 residency periods over the course of 8 semesters.

Each semester has a one week capstone, near the end of the semester. In addition there is a one week orientation at the beginning of the first semester, and there is one additional session, which for my class will be a 4 or 5 day (I forget at the moment) session at the start of the third semester.

For me it was a worthwhile tradeoff to put up with the capstone travel to give me more flexibility in my daily schedule compared to the traditional part time programs that were available to me here in the DC area. Being a parent of a young child, I put a big value on being able to be at home in time to put my daughter to bed most days (not an easy feat given my job, and the realities of NOVA traffic).

As strange as this setup sounds, it is not all that different than what I put up with for my Masters. About 75% of which I did online, but I flew up weekly for classes Monday night, flying back first thing Tuesday morning for two semesters (plus a few additional trips tossed in for various purposes).

When considering programs like these, you need to consider the impact of travel, but I have been quite fortunate that I have been able to keep my travel expenditures fairly low.

BigZuck
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby BigZuck » Sun May 31, 2015 10:29 pm

BigZuck wrote:Is the program 28K a year, every year, for 4 years?

BIG AF BUMP

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haus
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby haus » Sun May 31, 2015 10:44 pm

BigZuck wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Is the program 28K a year, every year, for 4 years?

BIG AF BUMP

Yes, that is the list price.

Looking at other part time programs that are near me physically for their part-time list price.

GULC ~37.5K
GW ~38.4K
Mason ~20K (in-state)
American ~34K
Cath ~35K
UDC ~16K

While the help I get from tuition assistance would have been the same regardless of which school I selected, the scholarship I received from WM was significantly better than anything else that was on the table. And although these schools are all in the basic area, getting to several of them would be a major logistical problem around work and traffic.

ETA: Also the WM scholarship was not limited to a single year or include restrictive stipulations that are (sadly) fairly common.

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby JohannDeMann » Sun May 31, 2015 11:07 pm

Jaydee and Haus - nice job. Sounds like yall have some very exciting opportunities, and I think yall are making very smart choices given your situations.

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A. Nony Mouse
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Sun May 31, 2015 11:24 pm

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:
snagglepuss wrote:I know that at least 1/4 of people attending WM intend to return to a business / JD-advantage job upon graduation. The school attracts way more of these types than any T1 or T14 school I know of. WM's brand continues to take a hit each year, but the school was once well-respected and still is to a degree in Minnesota. However, I would not advise someone without a significant scholarship and years of work experience to ever attend the school, but it makes sense for a number of people (particularly through their part-time or online programs) especially when you consider most students are not incurring any additional, law school-related cost of living expenses.

We need to do a better job of tailoring advice to thread OPs. This online WM program may very well be a great option for Jaydee.


I will not believe that this or any other crap school is worth it until someone cites to me, with specificity, at least one job that 1) requires or strongly prefers a JD, 2) would not typically be filled by one of the many desperate under- or un-employed graduates of better law schools, and 3) would provide better pay/job security than whatever job a typical prospective student with many years of experience would otherwise continue working.

I'm pretty sure the point is that for someone who already has a job, and who can move up in that job if they get a JD, and doesn't want to quit their job and move but has no part-time LS local to them, an online program would be fine. It's the theory behind the California-only-accredited online programs in California, but available to people who want to be barred elsewhere than California. Given that situation, one ABA accredited online program seems perfectly fine. It's not nearly as much of a ripoff as the full time brick/mortar TTTTs who act as if they're competing with top schools. It would be better if it were cheaper and it sounds entirely unsuitable for anyone who wants the outcome of a traditional law school, so it needs to market itself appropriately, but I don't think it's a ripoff the way that Cooley or TJSL are.


To me, none of them are worth it. I do not understand how or why someone would need a JD to "move up" in a non-legal job. It makes no sense. I understand that compliance jobs and the like may draw upon some very limited amount of background knowledge that you pick up in law school, but I find it very hard to believe that you couldn't move farther along in your career by simply working more diligently at your actual job rather than wasting an inordinate amount of time getting a JD.

Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it doesn't work for other people. I think you have a fairly narrow view of success/appropriate career paths.

BigZuck
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby BigZuck » Sun May 31, 2015 11:57 pm

haus wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Is the program 28K a year, every year, for 4 years?

BIG AF BUMP

Yes, that is the list price.

Looking at other part time programs that are near me physically for their part-time list price.

GULC ~37.5K
GW ~38.4K
Mason ~20K (in-state)
American ~34K
Cath ~35K
UDC ~16K

While the help I get from tuition assistance would have been the same regardless of which school I selected, the scholarship I received from WM was significantly better than anything else that was on the table. And although these schools are all in the basic area, getting to several of them would be a major logistical problem around work and traffic.

ETA: Also the WM scholarship was not limited to a single year or include restrictive stipulations that are (sadly) fairly common.

Just wanted to put the "But hey man, cheap online programs ain't so bad!!!" thing to bed

TYFT

So, are we all agreed now? TTT money grabbers gonna money grab? William "Hamline" Mitchell should be put out of our collective misery amirite?

Also, Haus, since you've brought it up I've gotta ask- isn't the scholarship being better than anything else on the table thing more about your lsat score than anything else? Like, it's more a condemnation of you than a positive point in the school's favor, no? Just guessing.

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haus
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby haus » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:04 am

BigZuck wrote:Also, Haus, since you've brought it up I've gotta ask- isn't the scholarship being better than anything else on the table thing more about your lsat score than anything else? Like, it's more a condemnation of you than a positive point in the school's favor, no? Just guessing.

I fail to see how a school opting to play games with scholarships has as much to do with my numbers as it has to do with underhanded games being played by school attempting to screw over students.

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haus
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby haus » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:14 am

BigZuck wrote:Just wanted to put the "But hey man, cheap online programs ain't so bad!!!" thing to bed

TYFT

So, are we all agreed now? TTT money grabbers gonna money grab? William "Hamline" Mitchell should be put out of our collective misery amirite?

I see that you opt to ignore that this program offers things that are not offered anywhere else as of yet. I suspect that because it is something that you do not feel a need for that you cannot see why it would be useful to anyone. At some time in the future, perhaps you will manage to grow up and attempt to view things from people with a prospective other than your own, but I suspect that it will not be anytime in the near future.

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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby MNbound » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:19 am

2015 William Mitchell graduate here. The two other WM hybrid online commenters are correct in the William Mitchell does enjoy a pretty good local reputation. The CSO and various mentor/networking programs have helped me find at least the start of a real legal job, but this was only after I also worked at many different local law firms/organizations throughout law school/networking, and got decent, but not great grades. Although I think the hybrid program would be great for local people who either already lived in MN or planned to after graduation and also had full time jobs, I am absolutely baffled as to how these new students think the degree will translate to other places around the country, which have never even heard of our law school. One of the main reasons I chose WM was the full ride, but even a hybrid student with a full ride would have to pay probably at least 10k or so in airfare/hotel fees for 10 weeks over four years, not to mention use up most, if not all, of the vacation time that most full time employees have in a year just to travel here for packed weeks with about 40 hours of class time in each capstone week.

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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby BigZuck » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:30 am

haus wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Also, Haus, since you've brought it up I've gotta ask- isn't the scholarship being better than anything else on the table thing more about your lsat score than anything else? Like, it's more a condemnation of you than a positive point in the school's favor, no? Just guessing.

I fail to see how a school opting to play games with scholarships has as much to do with my numbers as it has to do with underhanded games being played by school attempting to screw over students.

So...the reason this school is cheaper is because you got like a 156? Is that what you're saying?

hays wrote:you cannot see why it would be useful to anyone.

Ok now I'm convinced that you just struggle with reading comprehension
BigZuck wrote:most schools have lay prestige and alums with stellar outcomes. Doesn't make a good percentage of them not hot garbage though.
BigZuck wrote:you could probably find exceptions to the rule at almost any school in this country. Doesn't mean that a high percentage of those schools aren't bad and probably shouldn't exist.
BigZuck wrote:Some people will benefit from it, lots of people will get nothing out of it.

Like, this seems overly dumb even for advanced low-IQ schtick. It's gotta be a genuine struggle with reading the English language.

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haus
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby haus » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:49 am

MNbound wrote:One of the main reasons I chose WM was the full ride, but even a hybrid student with a full ride would have to pay probably at least 10k or so in airfare/hotel fees for 10 weeks over four years, not to mention use up most, if not all, of the vacation time that most full time employees have in a year just to travel here for packed weeks with about 40 hours of class time in each capstone week.

My expenses so far have been a fair bit below your estimate of $1K/week, although it is not an unreasonable estimate. But this should also be put into prospective. If one were to consider attending a traditional part-time program, the expenses for commuting/parking can easily run into the thousands over the course of four years.

Vacation time burn can be a pain, but I planned for this for several years prior to enrolling in a JD program and stockpiled quite a bit of time before I started. Also given the nature of my work I build up quite a bit of flex time that I can use to reduce the amount of vacation time I have needed to burn so far (I am on pace for using a bit less than half of my years allotment of vacation time for this years residency) , but this is something that any prospective student should consider.

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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby A. Nony Mouse » Mon Jun 01, 2015 12:57 am

BigZuck wrote:
haus wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Also, Haus, since you've brought it up I've gotta ask- isn't the scholarship being better than anything else on the table thing more about your lsat score than anything else? Like, it's more a condemnation of you than a positive point in the school's favor, no? Just guessing.

I fail to see how a school opting to play games with scholarships has as much to do with my numbers as it has to do with underhanded games being played by school attempting to screw over students.

So...the reason this school is cheaper is because you got like a 156? Is that what you're saying?

hays wrote:you cannot see why it would be useful to anyone.

Ok now I'm convinced that you just struggle with reading comprehension
BigZuck wrote:most schools have lay prestige and alums with stellar outcomes. Doesn't make a good percentage of them not hot garbage though.
BigZuck wrote:you could probably find exceptions to the rule at almost any school in this country. Doesn't mean that a high percentage of those schools aren't bad and probably shouldn't exist.
BigZuck wrote:Some people will benefit from it, lots of people will get nothing out of it.

Like, this seems overly dumb even for advanced low-IQ schtick. It's gotta be a genuine struggle with reading the English language.

Eh. I still think one ABA accredited online institution probably serves a better purpose than bottom feeder TTTTs. For people for whom it doesn't matter where your degree is from, an online option is probably a decent investment. William Mitchell as an online program probably serves a better purpose than William Mitchell as a brick and mortar, honestly (no offense, earlier WM grad), in that it offers something no other school does - again, to the right kind of student. I don't think we need a plethora of such schools, and it's probably too expensive, but there are plenty of TTTTs I'd rather shut down first.

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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby BigZuck » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:13 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
BigZuck wrote:
haus wrote:
BigZuck wrote:Also, Haus, since you've brought it up I've gotta ask- isn't the scholarship being better than anything else on the table thing more about your lsat score than anything else? Like, it's more a condemnation of you than a positive point in the school's favor, no? Just guessing.

I fail to see how a school opting to play games with scholarships has as much to do with my numbers as it has to do with underhanded games being played by school attempting to screw over students.

So...the reason this school is cheaper is because you got like a 156? Is that what you're saying?

hays wrote:you cannot see why it would be useful to anyone.

Ok now I'm convinced that you just struggle with reading comprehension
BigZuck wrote:most schools have lay prestige and alums with stellar outcomes. Doesn't make a good percentage of them not hot garbage though.
BigZuck wrote:you could probably find exceptions to the rule at almost any school in this country. Doesn't mean that a high percentage of those schools aren't bad and probably shouldn't exist.
BigZuck wrote:Some people will benefit from it, lots of people will get nothing out of it.

Like, this seems overly dumb even for advanced low-IQ schtick. It's gotta be a genuine struggle with reading the English language.

Eh. I still think one ABA accredited online institution probably serves a better purpose than bottom feeder TTTTs. For people for whom it doesn't matter where your degree is from, an online option is probably a decent investment. William Mitchell as an online program probably serves a better purpose than William Mitchell as a brick and mortar, honestly (no offense, earlier WM grad), in that it offers something no other school does - again, to the right kind of student. I don't think we need a plethora of such schools, and it's probably too expensive, but there are plenty of TTTTs I'd rather shut down first.

I didn't really start this caring one way or the other, just defending the poor downtrodden folks who thought the school was poop because woe be on to them. I was also (sort of) joking about this school needing to be shut down. But:

Dude, it's 100K+ at sticker. And you still have to go there in person a bunch of times. People were defending it for being cheap and online. Neither is true.

I mean, I'm the last person to defend brick and mortar law schools as far as anything having to do with the actual education. But this thing is neither cheap nor totally online. Do I like it more than Cooley? Probably. Do I think it shouldn't exist in this form? I've gotta be honest: yeah. It's farking expensive. Its not a cheap online alternative. As far as tuition goes, it's more expensive than the 3 year brick and mortar counterpart. And forgive me for being skeptical as to the benevolent intentions of TTT adcoms but it looks to be more bloodsuckers doing their bloodsucking thing. If it were cheap and totally online, ok fine. But it's not.

I know this is probably out there but I think at least half the law schools in this country should probably be shut down. If this thing insists on not being cheap and totally online then (real talk) I have no problem with it being swept up in that revolution.

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby Capitol_Idea » Mon Jun 01, 2015 1:31 am

The thing the WM defenders don't seem to be realizing here is that there is a difference between saying a school is generally a shithole and saying that every student or specific students are stupid for going there (and I don't think people are really insinuating the latter).

Maybe it makes sense for individuals like Haus, but I'm willing to bet that WM makes money off of charging a large number of people full freight somewhere along the line, whether at the brick-and-mortar side, online, or both. With a forced curve and a weak market, it's likely that more people are net losing on this deal than not.

I'm with Nony's faint praise route though: it probably isn't the first TTT I'd put against the wall.

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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:38 am

Jaydee wrote:It's 28% annually. If you're a captain making $135/year then that's 37K+ a year until you retire. And when you retire half of that 37K will be pensionable.


Hmmmm... that's not what some police departments refer to as "incentive pay." But I'll take your word for it.

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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:41 am

A. Nony Mouse wrote:Just because it doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it doesn't work for other people. I think you have a fairly narrow view of success/appropriate career paths.


Maybe, but I have never heard of a police officer or anyone else being like "boy, thank God I got a JD. I would have never been able to do or would have never know [X]." I mean, they should be teaching all police officers the basics of the law anyway. You have to stack up the potential benefits of a JD against the costs, and I get the impression that many (if not most) people who get a JD don't think about the amount of time they are wasting by itself as a huge cost.

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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:43 am

zacharus85 wrote:The thing the WM defenders don't seem to be realizing here is that there is a difference between saying a school is generally a shithole and saying that every student or specific students are stupid for going there (and I don't think people are really insinuating the latter).

Maybe it makes sense for individuals like Haus, but I'm willing to bet that WM makes money off of charging a large number of people full freight somewhere along the line, whether at the brick-and-mortar side, online, or both. With a forced curve and a weak market, it's likely that more people are net losing on this deal than not.

I'm with Nony's faint praise route though: it probably isn't the first TTT I'd put against the wall.


Yeah, and I really don't understand why special cases like Haus would be sharing this information on a message board as if it is supposed to be applicable to anyone else. I mean, maybe it's applicable to like 1-2 other people who will ever read this, but the vast majority of people considering William Mitchell need to know that it is NOT WORTH IT.




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