Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

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Jaydee
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Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby Jaydee » Sun May 24, 2015 1:17 pm

I just found out that they have this option! Seems like a no-brainer now. I was thinking of CUNY before, but this seems like a better option. I'm a career changer and I have enough passive income to not work again. I just want a law degree to be able to work part time in my wife's solo practice.
What am I missing here? seems like a good bet over CUNY/Fordham/NYLS

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Louis1127
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby Louis1127 » Sun May 24, 2015 1:42 pm

What it seems like is that they will try anything to stay in business.

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haus
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby haus » Sun May 24, 2015 1:54 pm

Louis1127 wrote:What it seems like is that they will try anything to stay in business.

Yeah, it is not like most other fields of study have not yet moved to online/hybrid options (most over a decade ago). Somehow the study of law is some magical speciality that will forever pretend that the world around it will never change, so no school should consider rocking the boat. We must always teach law in the same way Harvard did over one hundred years ago because Dean Langdell obviously thought of everything.

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haus
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby haus » Sun May 24, 2015 1:57 pm

Jaydee wrote:I just found out that they have this option! Seems like a no-brainer now. I was thinking of CUNY before, but this seems like a better option. I'm a career changer and I have enough passive income to not work again. I just want a law degree to be able to work part time in my wife's solo practice.
What am I missing here? seems like a good bet over CUNY/Fordham/NYLS

I am obviously biased, and I do like the hybrid program as it is beneficial for several types of students. But there is a glaring red flag that you should be aware of. As I understand it NY has a requirement for admission to the bar that you must attended physically classes a given number of days per week (I think it is 3 or 4) on your 1L year. The hybrid program, and a small handful of other part-time programs do not meet this criteria. As such if you are set on going the bar in NY the Mitchell hybrid program is likely not for you.

Jaydee
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby Jaydee » Sun May 24, 2015 2:18 pm

haus wrote:
Jaydee wrote:I just found out that they have this option! Seems like a no-brainer now. I was thinking of CUNY before, but this seems like a better option. I'm a career changer and I have enough passive income to not work again. I just want a law degree to be able to work part time in my wife's solo practice.
What am I missing here? seems like a good bet over CUNY/Fordham/NYLS

I am obviously biased, and I do like the hybrid program as it is beneficial for several types of students. But there is a glaring red flag that you should be aware of. As I understand it NY has a requirement for admission to the bar that you must attended physically classes a given number of days per week (I think it is 3 or 4) on your 1L year. The hybrid program, and a small handful of other part-time programs do not meet this criteria. As such if you are set on going the bar in NY the Mitchell hybrid program is likely not for you.


I just saw that on their website. 49 out of 50 states will allow you to sit for the bar; NYS is the sole holdout! Oh well. They are "working on it" so hopefully in a year or two this will be an option.

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Louis1127
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby Louis1127 » Sun May 24, 2015 3:36 pm

haus wrote:
Louis1127 wrote:What it seems like is that they will try anything to stay in business.

Yeah, it is not like most other fields of study have not yet moved to online/hybrid options (most over a decade ago). Somehow the study of law is some magical speciality that will forever pretend that the world around it will never change, so no school should consider rocking the boat. We must always teach law in the same way Harvard did over one hundred years ago because Dean Langdell obviously thought of everything.

Not sure where you got that from

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Sun May 24, 2015 3:39 pm

I can't tell if OP is serious

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Pragmatic Gun
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Sun May 24, 2015 3:55 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:I can't tell if OP is serious


I call troll as well.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby PeanutsNJam » Mon May 25, 2015 11:12 am

2009 acct 13 posts, troll for sure

UndecidedMN
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby UndecidedMN » Mon May 25, 2015 11:51 am

You mean Mitchell/Hamline, not William Mitchell. Dumb name.

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haus
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby haus » Mon May 25, 2015 12:08 pm

UndecidedMN wrote:You mean Mitchell/Hamline, not William Mitchell. Dumb name.

Close.

William | Hamiline

Although, this has yet to be approved.

Jaydee
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby Jaydee » Mon May 25, 2015 12:21 pm

No troll here. I started the thread titled Fordham sticker or NYLS/CUNY. My motivation/story for wanting to be a lawyer is there. In a nutshell: my significant other is a solo and business is at a point where she's having to turn down clients. The clients are basically from the Queens, NYC immigrant community so "prestige" isn't an issue. An online JD that would allow me to sit for the NYS bar would be ideal. I can continue working and do the JD on my own time

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crazycanuck
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby crazycanuck » Mon May 25, 2015 1:31 pm

What's the cost?

I'm a big proponent for online degrees. Making students pay 45K to sit in a platinum LEED certified building with a rock gym is stupid. Making students pay 5k to learn the same material online makes a lot of sense. The stigma of online degrees is slowly fading as more prestigious universities start to move to this model and boomers retire. It's multiples cheaper and technology is reaching the point where the classroom experience can be fairly successfully replicated online. I've invested in a couple of companies that are building education technology and the growth they are experiencing is incredible. The biggest challenge is that a lot of professors are very hesitant to use it as it will replace them, although some of them are embracing it as a means to offload teaching and focus on research.

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haus
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby haus » Mon May 25, 2015 2:02 pm

crazycanuck wrote:What's the cost?

I'm a big proponent for online degrees. Making students pay 45K to sit in a platinum LEED certified building with a rock gym is stupid. Making students pay 5k to learn the same material online makes a lot of sense. The stigma of online degrees is slowly fading as more prestigious universities start to move to this model and boomers retire. It's multiples cheaper and technology is reaching the point where the classroom experience can be fairly successfully replicated online. I've invested in a couple of companies that are building education technology and the growth they are experiencing is incredible. The biggest challenge is that a lot of professors are very hesitant to use it as it will replace them, although some of them are embracing it as a means to offload teaching and focus on research.

Currently the cost is the same as the residence part time program. Although it seems that most of the students I know received fairly large scholarships.

I suspect they took on a bit of expense in building out the tools and curriculum for this format. The first class, of which I am a member, is roughly 80 students. It sounds like the next incoming class will be of a similar size. We have been told that the new class appears to be on pace to have stronger numbers than we have. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for another program of this type to take shape, and how online/hybrid programs look 5-10 years from now.

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rinkrat19
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby rinkrat19 » Mon May 25, 2015 2:25 pm

It's questionable enough when a respectable school tries "innovative" things to sell JDs that are at least fully accredited. (Example: Northwestern's 2-year accelerated JD). When a shit school with shit employment stats invents a program that likely doesn't even meet national accreditation policy, it's beyond scammy.

Jaydee
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby Jaydee » Mon May 25, 2015 2:33 pm

haus wrote:
crazycanuck wrote:What's the cost?

I'm a big proponent for online degrees. Making students pay 45K to sit in a platinum LEED certified building with a rock gym is stupid. Making students pay 5k to learn the same material online makes a lot of sense. The stigma of online degrees is slowly fading as more prestigious universities start to move to this model and boomers retire. It's multiples cheaper and technology is reaching the point where the classroom experience can be fairly successfully replicated online. I've invested in a couple of companies that are building education technology and the growth they are experiencing is incredible. The biggest challenge is that a lot of professors are very hesitant to use it as it will replace them, although some of them are embracing it as a means to offload teaching and focus on research.

Currently the cost is the same as the residence part time program. Although it seems that most of the students I know received fairly large scholarships.

I suspect they took on a bit of expense in building out the tools and curriculum for this format. The first class, of which I am a member, is roughly 80 students. It sounds like the next incoming class will be of a similar size. We have been told that the new class appears to be on pace to have stronger numbers than we have. It will be interesting to see how long it takes for another program of this type to take shape, and how online/hybrid programs look 5-10 years from now.


Where can't you sit for the bar? Just New York? Any talk of when NY will allow Mitchell hybrid grads to take the bar?

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haus
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby haus » Mon May 25, 2015 3:50 pm

rinkrat19 wrote:It's questionable enough when a respectable school tries "innovative" things to sell JDs that are at least fully accredited. (Example: Northwestern's 2-year accelerated JD). When a shit school with shit employment stats invents a program that likely doesn't even meet national accreditation policy, it's beyond scammy.

Failing to meet the requirement in one state is far from being scammy. Especially when the school is upfront about the discrepancy.

Is this program for everyone. No it is not, but it does not need to be for it to have value.

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haus
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby haus » Mon May 25, 2015 4:00 pm

Jaydee wrote:Where can't you sit for the bar? Just New York? Any talk of when NY will allow Mitchell hybrid grads to take the bar?

Currently the only limitation is NY.

As I understand it, this is due to a specific requirment that they have added on top of the common requirment that one must complete a JD from an ABA approved school, specifically calling out the number of days one must be physically in class. It seems that this will only be resolved if the state of New York reconsiders this requirment. I think it is most likely to be looked at as more programs such as this become available, especially if a New York school expresses interest in doing so. While I think it is quite likely to occur, I would not bet on a timeframe, and also would not be surprised if such a change did not offer a grandfather clause leaving students such as myself out in the cold preeminently.

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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby timbs4339 » Mon May 25, 2015 4:20 pm

Just go to CUNY. It's cheap and you'll make a lot more connections in the NYC small law community to help your gf's solo practice. Stop overthinking this.

The problem with the WM online degree is that it's not really an online degree- it's just a way for them to enroll people at brick and mortar prices who, for whatever reason (1) can't move, and (2) live outside of commuting range of one of the current ABA law schools. Online degrees are supposed to be a way to make higher ed affordable again by cutting out fixed costs- this is anything but.

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lacrossebrother
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby lacrossebrother » Mon May 25, 2015 4:35 pm

Given that lawyers have a monopoly on the legal profession, I'm not sure that it's "scammy" to provide a cheap and convenient alternative to become eligible to sit for the bar, but your belief in universal access to the law might not be as progressive as mine.

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby Capitol_Idea » Mon May 25, 2015 4:43 pm

lacrossebrother wrote:Given that lawyers have a monopoly on the legal profession, I'm not sure that it's "scammy" to provide a cheap and convenient alternative to become eligible to sit for the bar, but your belief in universal access to the law might not be as progressive as mine.

The "scammy" part is when it A. holds itself out as equivalent to a full-time accredited program and B. costs as muchas or near to said programs. If it is actually as good and costs significantly less, then MAYBE it presents some value.

We don't need more access to the legal profession - there are twice as many lawyers graduating every year than there are jobs for them. These new programs don't attract the 'bright but downtrodden' because a significantly good LSAT and GPA will net you a scholly at a decent school regardless of your socioeconomic status. There is an argument that plenty of 'bright' people don't get the right circumstances to focus in college (like working to support yourself, etc.) or can't afford LSAT prep or whatever but that's a function of how we perceive worth in legal academic selection - the solution there would be to reform how we select law students rather than just pumping out yet more of them.

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Capitol_Idea
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby Capitol_Idea » Mon May 25, 2015 4:54 pm

Although I guess it depends on how you define 'value' for law school. If it's just 'eligibility to take the bar,' then if it's cheaper and more accessible than regular law school it might present some value.

I personally define law school value differently - at the macro-level does the school provide access to jobs at a sufficient rate to offset its cost to students? If it net just increases student debt without either helping it's students get employed or selecting the right employable students to begin with, then the school comes across as a crass money grab. It's not 'progressive' to support those programs IMO.

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haus
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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby haus » Mon May 25, 2015 5:05 pm

zacharus85 wrote:
lacrossebrother wrote:Given that lawyers have a monopoly on the legal profession, I'm not sure that it's "scammy" to provide a cheap and convenient alternative to become eligible to sit for the bar, but your belief in universal access to the law might not be as progressive as mine.

The "scammy" part is when it A. holds itself out as equivalent to a full-time accredited program and B. costs as muchas or near to said programs. If it is actually as good and costs significantly less, then MAYBE it presents some value.

We don't need more access to the legal profession - there are twice as many lawyers graduating every year than there are jobs for them. These new programs don't attract the 'bright but downtrodden' because a significantly good LSAT and GPA will net you a scholly at a decent school regardless of your socioeconomic status. There is an argument that plenty of 'bright' people don't get the right circumstances to focus in college (like working to support yourself, etc.) or can't afford LSAT prep or whatever but that's a function of how we perceive worth in legal academic selection - the solution there would be to reform how we select law students rather than just pumping out yet more of them.

First, the program is clearly a part-time program, not a full-time program, second, it is accredited by the ABA.

Many of us, me included, were accepted to other programs. But, I found the option at WM to be a better fit. Here we are in 2015, and every other school is fixated on the notion that Torts cannot be learned in any other way than sitting in a chair in a specific room at set times of the day, really?

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Re: Game changer: William Mitchell College of Law ABA approved ONLINE JD program!

Postby BigZuck » Mon May 25, 2015 5:12 pm

Do they still do that Socratic nonsense in online classes? I'd imagine that the quality of education is way, way higher if they aren't doing that garbage.

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