Michigan vs. NYU

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kitkat91
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Michigan vs. NYU

Postby kitkat91 » Wed May 13, 2015 5:17 pm

Hi All... hoping to get some thoughts on my current situation. I deposited at Michigan with a 45K scholarship and was insanely pumped to attend. Yesterday, I got an offer from the NYU waitlist (no scholarship info with offer, so presuming sticker). I plan on financing with loans/LRAP.

I want to do Gov/PI work after school and do not have a strong preference for a specific market (ideally would like to work somewhere in the northeast since that is where my family is, but beyond that I'll be looking more at the fit of the job than gunning for a specific market). I have significant ties to Philly and NYC.

While NYU is undoubtedly amazing for PI (and has a great LRAP), I am having some serious doubts about going to law school in NYC. I've lived here for a few years since UG and am definitely feeling ready to live elsewhere. I really loved Ann Arbor when I visited for ASW and would much prefer the college town environment for law school. I also would much prefer the more cohesive campus feel of Michigan to a more spread out, urban environment.

Basically, my gut reaction is that I would rather attend Michigan based on fit, but I am weighing that reaction against the potential placement advantage I would get from NYU. Obviously Michigan is cheaper as well, but at this point I'm taking out a ton of debt either way. Would appreciate any thoughts. Thanks in advance!

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KMart
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Re: Michigan vs. NYU

Postby KMart » Wed May 13, 2015 5:19 pm

If you're gunning for PI I'm not sure I'd want to attend NYU at sticker.

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: Michigan vs. NYU

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Wed May 13, 2015 5:19 pm

In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

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TasmanianToucan
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Re: Michigan vs. NYU

Postby TasmanianToucan » Wed May 13, 2015 5:21 pm

OhBoyOhBortles wrote:In order to receive the best feedback in this forum, please provide as much of the following information in your original post as possible:

-The schools you are considering
-The total Cost of Attendance (COA) of each. COA = cost of tuition + fees + books + cost of living (COL) + accumulated interest - scholarships. Here is a helpful calculator.
-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings
-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)
-Your general career goals
-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
-How many times you have taken the LSAT

If I had a nickel for every time I've seen OBOB post that...

But seriously, GPA, scores, and other options please!

kitkat91
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Re: Michigan vs. NYU

Postby kitkat91 » Wed May 13, 2015 5:30 pm

The other schools I considered were UVA and Berkeley, both at sticker. UVA I ruled out after ASW and is kind of null at this point anyway since the deposit deadline passed. I'm still holding on to my tentative "yes" at Berk but am pretty sure I've decided against it at this point (match was denied and I'm fairly sure I don't want to be on west coast anyway). Numbers are 164/3.87 (maxed out on retakes).

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: Michigan vs. NYU

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Wed May 13, 2015 5:35 pm

kitkat91 wrote:The other schools I considered were UVA and Berkeley, both at sticker. UVA I ruled out after ASW and is kind of null at this point anyway since the deposit deadline passed. I'm still holding on to my tentative "yes" at Berk but am pretty sure I've decided against it at this point (match was denied and I'm fairly sure I don't want to be on west coast anyway). Numbers are 164/3.87 (maxed out on retakes).


When was your first take? You get another one after two years. OP, if you have a year or less to wait before you can take again, please consider doing it. You have a killer gpa which will allow you to get great (read:potentially full) scholarships at UVA/Berk/NYU/Mich if paired with an upper 160s LSAT. Just a few more points and you could have had a dillard this year, or a solid scholarship at NYU that might make it a much more appealing option.

With your public interest goals, you should definitely be focusing on minimizing debt. That said, neither of your current options seem ideal. Please consider retaking.

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usn26
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Re: Michigan vs. NYU

Postby usn26 » Wed May 13, 2015 5:37 pm

If you liked Michigan and are hesitant about NYU, go to Michigan. The savings (scholarship + COL) will give you more flexibility, and I don't think the placement difference so huge that you must go to NYU. I say follow your enthusiasm.

Agree with OBOB if retaking is an option, though.

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L’Étranger
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Re: Michigan vs. NYU

Postby L’Étranger » Wed May 13, 2015 5:53 pm

kitkat91 wrote:Basically, my gut reaction is that I would rather attend Michigan based on fit, but I am weighing that reaction against the potential placement advantage I would get from NYU. Obviously Michigan is cheaper as well, but at this point I'm taking out a ton of debt either way. Would appreciate any thoughts. Thanks in advance!


Questions:

1) Does NYU truly place better in PI? Do you have stats to support?

2) Is there LRAP at M? Is it as good as NYU's?

3) Will living in Ann Arbor verses NY lead you to perform better in school.

Disclaimer: I'm not a PI guy nor did I attend either of these school -->End of the day, though, I am suspicious of the notion that NYU places better in PI than M. I think that if you're top of the class at either school, you'll likely be equally competitive for the more desirable PI positions. If you're towards the bottom of the class at either school, you'll probably be equally competitive for the same less competitive PI positions.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Michigan vs. NYU

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed May 13, 2015 6:38 pm

OP: Calculate the total cost-of-attendance (COA) for each school over three years. These figures should help you to see the big picture. With interest due when repayment begins, NYU debt will probably exceed $250,000. Michigan will probably exceed $180,000.

kitkat91
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Re: Michigan vs. NYU

Postby kitkat91 » Wed May 13, 2015 6:43 pm

Thanks all for your feedback, it's very helpful. The value of a retake is certainly not lost on me. L'Etranger, to answer your questions:

L’Étranger wrote: 1) Does NYU truly place better in PI? Do you have stats to support?


I guess this is part of what I am trying to weigh (and unfortunately do not have stats). I've been lurking on this board for a while and have gotten the sense that NYU is very strong for PI, particularly in the northeast, which is my desired region. I've gotten a similar sense from taking to people IRL that are knowledgeable about PI. At the same time, I've also heard great things about PI at Mich. I made a point to speak to some PI folks during ASW and, from what I could tell, they seemed happy with the experience.

L’Étranger wrote: 2) Is there LRAP at M? Is it as good as NYU's?


Mich does have a very good LRAP. NYU's plan has slightly higher caps, but Mich's plan is still very strong compared to other plans I've looked at. I've read the plan through it in its entirety and spoken with folks in the financial aid office about the finer points, and am comfortable with the terms given my prospective debt. I guess to answer the question, NYU's may be a small amount stronger due to the higher caps but probably not enough to be a deal-breaker for Mich (esp. given that my COA would be a good bit lower there). Anyone super knowledgeable of LRAPs, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this.

L’Étranger wrote: 3) Will living in Ann Arbor verses NY lead you to perform better in school.


Obviously can't know for sure, but I can see this being true. I opted against an urban experience to go UG in an environment similar to AA and did very well academically (and was also very happy), so it's worked for me in the past.

Thanks again everyone who has responded! I guess I'm leaning towards Mich, but will continue to think about it (I have until Monday to sign my lease for Mich so I'll probably mull it over until then).

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L’Étranger
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Re: Michigan vs. NYU

Postby L’Étranger » Wed May 13, 2015 6:57 pm

kitkat91 wrote:I've gotten a similar sense from taking to people IRL that are knowledgeable about PI. At the same time, I've also heard great things about PI at Mich. I made a point to speak to some PI folks during ASW and, from what I could tell, they seemed happy with the experience.


I've heard the same thing about NYU and B regarding PI, but I don't know what exactly that means. Maybe ask the people you've spoken with what a stronger reputation in PI means.

I had thought being strong in PI meant that a school had a good number of students who were gung-ho PI and created a positive PI environment.

That is, I don't know that a top student from M would lose a PI position to a top student at NYU because of some perception that NYU is "strong" in PI.




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