Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

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honestkid21
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Joined: Wed May 13, 2015 7:51 am

Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby honestkid21 » Wed May 13, 2015 8:23 am

Hello Friends

I would like to get an advice from everyone reading this. Please share your thoughts.

I am still trying to decide between 2 schools. The hardest part is that I like all three schools for different reasons. Here we go. I currently live in New York City. Being Hispanic myself, I want to become an immigration lawyer. I speak Spanish I do not think it will be hard to find other Hispanics with immigration issues (in need of a lawyer)

Pace Law School,

Pros
It has an excellent immigration clinic (one of the best in the country, and a few courses in immigration topics)
Its in New York (when I would love to practice)...(Though I will not commute to campus, I will move near the school)
New York has a lot more immigrants than Wisconsin

Cons
Scholarship is really bad (10,000 per year as tuition is 45K)
Low Ranking (#138)

Marquette Law School
Pros
Its better ranked than Pace (#105)
Automatic Admission to the Wisconsin Bar (Good because I can start working right away (Making $). This great thing about immigration law is that it is federal. I only need one bar license to practice immigration anywhere in the country. At Pace, I am at risk of failing the really difficult bar the first time and loose wages while re-studying) (With my wisconsin bar, I can move to New York and still have a successful immigration practice.

Cons
Scholarship is really bard (5,000 while tuition is 42K)
No Immigration clinic (I will have to seek out immigration law firms in the Milwaukee, to get immigration practical training, tho, they hand other clinics and the skills I could learn in those clinics are transferable to practicing immigration law. (client interviews, fact finding, investigation and discovering, interviewing expert witness. ect))


I do not mind graduating with 150K in student loans. I want to work in public service and my loans will be forgiven after 10 years of service. After becoming a lawyer. I am not interested in working for a law firm. This is why I think the name of the school doesn't matter much in my case. I want to start a solo firm. Regardless of the school, I plan to work really hard my 1L year and transfer to a T14 school. Since Marquette is more known than Pace, I think I will have an easier time transferring from Marquette. At the same time, If I cannot transfer for some reason, Pace will prepare me better (I think) for practice in immigration law. Will my best to transfer though. Please guys share your thoughts.
Last edited by honestkid21 on Wed May 13, 2015 8:50 am, edited 2 times in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed May 13, 2015 8:47 am

You have no reasonable option between these two law schools due to too much debt from either school.

Also, planning to transfer after your first year is unwise & just means that neither law school is the right choice for you.

How many times have you taken the LSAT ? If less than three, then retake for better options.

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TasmanianToucan
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby TasmanianToucan » Wed May 13, 2015 9:08 am

The issue with LRAP is that you need a job in order for it to work, and for both of these schools you have a coin flip's chance of getting one. Don't fool yourself into thinking PI jobs are less competitive than biglaw jobs. If anything, they're even harder to score. So, the danger isn't that you'll be working in PI with a lot of debt, but rather that you'll be unemployed with a lot of debt. That would be very bad.

Put transferring out of your mind. It's far easier to get into a good law school in the first place than to transfer.

As always, to actually give you constructive advice the nice people here will need your GPA, LSAT scores, and any other options available. That way they will have a solid basis on which to tell you to retake, which 90% of the time is the right answer.

timbs4339
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby timbs4339 » Wed May 13, 2015 9:23 am

Stop stop stop stop. Get out the google and start doing more research. You're about to make a 150k investment in reliance on a government program and you know seem to know nothing about that program.

PSLF is on the chopping block in next year's budget. Republicans want to just gut it entirely. Obama's willing to compromise by limiting it to $57K. This program is not going to be around when you graduate and no there is nothing in the promissory notes or anywhere else guaranteeing that current or even former students get guaranteed PSLF terms.

Also, why is CUNY not on your list? It's the preeminent public interest interest school not named NYU in the NYC metro area and it's a whole lot cheaper.

Bad idea.

Traynor Brah
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:23 pm

Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby Traynor Brah » Wed May 13, 2015 9:25 am

these are both unbelievably bad ideas

you would be incredibly naive/an idiot to think either is a reasonable option

i hope you don't do this to yourself. good luck.

lawschoolftw
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:34 pm

Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby lawschoolftw » Wed May 13, 2015 9:51 am

honestkid21 wrote:Hello Friends

I would like to get an advice from everyone reading this. Please share your thoughts.

I am still trying to decide between 2 schools. The hardest part is that I like all three schools for different reasons. Here we go. I currently live in New York City. Being Hispanic myself, I want to become an immigration lawyer. I speak Spanish I do not think it will be hard to find other Hispanics with immigration issues (in need of a lawyer)

Pace Law School,

Pros
It has an excellent immigration clinic (one of the best in the country, and a few courses in immigration topics)
Its in New York (when I would love to practice)...(Though I will not commute to campus, I will move near the school)
New York has a lot more immigrants than Wisconsin

Cons
Scholarship is really bad (10,000 per year as tuition is 45K)
Low Ranking (#138)

Marquette Law School
Pros
Its better ranked than Pace (#105)
Automatic Admission to the Wisconsin Bar (Good because I can start working right away (Making $). This great thing about immigration law is that it is federal. I only need one bar license to practice immigration anywhere in the country. At Pace, I am at risk of failing the really difficult bar the first time and loose wages while re-studying) (With my wisconsin bar, I can move to New York and still have a successful immigration practice.

Cons
Scholarship is really bard (5,000 while tuition is 42K)
No Immigration clinic (I will have to seek out immigration law firms in the Milwaukee, to get immigration practical training, tho, they hand other clinics and the skills I could learn in those clinics are transferable to practicing immigration law. (client interviews, fact finding, investigation and discovering, interviewing expert witness. ect))


I do not mind graduating with 150K in student loans. I want to work in public service and my loans will be forgiven after 10 years of service. After becoming a lawyer. I am not interested in working for a law firm. This is why I think the name of the school doesn't matter much in my case. I want to start a solo firm. Regardless of the school, I plan to work really hard my 1L year and transfer to a T14 school. Since Marquette is more known than Pace, I think I will have an easier time transferring from Marquette. At the same time, If I cannot transfer for some reason, Pace will prepare me better (I think) for practice in immigration law. Will my best to transfer though. Please guys share your thoughts.


Was convinced this was legit until I saw, "Regardless of the school, I plan to work really hard my 1L year and transfer to a T14 school. Since Marquette is more known than Pace, I think I will have an easier time transferring from Marquette." Now I'm pretty convinced this is just some trolling. If this is real, don't go to law school next year OP. I'm not saying you shouldn't ever go to either of these schools (as many will tell you), but you seem very misinformed about this process, law school, and the job market right now. Take a year, work, re-take LSAT is possible, and learn more about law school and the job market before you sink 150K into this.

lawschoolftw
Posts: 338
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 2:34 pm

Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby lawschoolftw » Wed May 13, 2015 10:14 am

lawschoolftw wrote:
honestkid21 wrote:Hello Friends

I would like to get an advice from everyone reading this. Please share your thoughts.

I am still trying to decide between 2 schools. The hardest part is that I like all three schools for different reasons. Here we go. I currently live in New York City. Being Hispanic myself, I want to become an immigration lawyer. I speak Spanish I do not think it will be hard to find other Hispanics with immigration issues (in need of a lawyer)

Pace Law School,

Pros
It has an excellent immigration clinic (one of the best in the country, and a few courses in immigration topics)
Its in New York (when I would love to practice)...(Though I will not commute to campus, I will move near the school)
New York has a lot more immigrants than Wisconsin

Cons
Scholarship is really bad (10,000 per year as tuition is 45K)
Low Ranking (#138)

Marquette Law School
Pros
Its better ranked than Pace (#105)
Automatic Admission to the Wisconsin Bar (Good because I can start working right away (Making $). This great thing about immigration law is that it is federal. I only need one bar license to practice immigration anywhere in the country. At Pace, I am at risk of failing the really difficult bar the first time and loose wages while re-studying) (With my wisconsin bar, I can move to New York and still have a successful immigration practice.

Cons
Scholarship is really bard (5,000 while tuition is 42K)
No Immigration clinic (I will have to seek out immigration law firms in the Milwaukee, to get immigration practical training, tho, they hand other clinics and the skills I could learn in those clinics are transferable to practicing immigration law. (client interviews, fact finding, investigation and discovering, interviewing expert witness. ect))


I do not mind graduating with 150K in student loans. I want to work in public service and my loans will be forgiven after 10 years of service. After becoming a lawyer. I am not interested in working for a law firm. This is why I think the name of the school doesn't matter much in my case. I want to start a solo firm. Regardless of the school, I plan to work really hard my 1L year and transfer to a T14 school. Since Marquette is more known than Pace, I think I will have an easier time transferring from Marquette. At the same time, If I cannot transfer for some reason, Pace will prepare me better (I think) for practice in immigration law. Will my best to transfer though. Please guys share your thoughts.


Was convinced this was legit until I saw, "Regardless of the school, I plan to work really hard my 1L year and transfer to a T14 school. Since Marquette is more known than Pace, I think I will have an easier time transferring from Marquette." Now I'm pretty convinced this is just some trolling. If this is real, don't go to law school next year OP. I'm not saying you shouldn't ever go to either of these schools (as many will tell you), but you seem very misinformed about this process, law school, and the job market right now. Take a year, work, re-take LSAT is possible, and learn more about law school and the job market before you sink 150K into this.


Also, just re-read this and realized you said you were an URM. Re-take is definitely the way to go... you could get into much better schools or at least go to the schools your contemplating with significantly more scholarship money.

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MurdockLLP
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby MurdockLLP » Wed May 13, 2015 10:17 am

Please retake and reapply next year. Neither of these schools is worth your time and money.

honestkid21
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby honestkid21 » Wed May 13, 2015 10:29 am

The other school I am looking at is University of Massachusetts Law School.

There I received a bigger scholarship. In loans, tuition and fees will be $39,000 all three years. It comes down to around 13,000 per year. Is 39K too much in loans for the caliber of the school? According to you guys, its seems better than 150K at Marquette or Pace?

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MurdockLLP
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby MurdockLLP » Wed May 13, 2015 10:44 am

Only go to a school that will put you in your desired market. If you want to be in NY go to a NY school, not an MA school. When applying, you should apply to a wide variety of schools, but only to negotiate with the schools in the market you want to attend. Try negotiating with Pace with this MA offer. You can find hundreds of examples of these letters here.

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TasmanianToucan
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby TasmanianToucan » Wed May 13, 2015 10:46 am

I think you need to take a big step back, do some research, and carefully consider what you're getting yourself into.

Go to a good law school for no money, a great school for a reasonable amount of money, or don't go at all.

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Wed May 13, 2015 10:48 am

MurdockLLP wrote:Please retake and reapply next year. Neither of these schools is worth your time and money.

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usn26
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby usn26 » Wed May 13, 2015 11:00 am

Sit this one out, take a breath, figure out your goals and what is realistically likely to get you to them without inviting financial catastrophe, and then retake/reapply/reassess until you can choose from options that give you a decent likelihood of getting a job at a reasonable debt level.

Traynor Brah
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:23 pm

Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby Traynor Brah » Wed May 13, 2015 11:06 am

honestkid21 wrote:The other school I am looking at is University of Massachusetts Law School.

There I received a bigger scholarship. In loans, tuition and fees will be $39,000 all three years. It comes down to around 13,000 per year. Is 39K too much in loans for the caliber of the school? According to you guys, its seems better than 150K at Marquette or Pace?

39K for tuition and fees. But what about your cost of living? Even if it's 20K a year, that puts you at 110K in debt at repayment. 110K debt and 3 1/2 years of your life to attend any of these schools is a truly terrible investment, regardless of your goals.

Is this the school you were referring to? http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/umassd/2014/

22% of graduates became lawyers? lol. I suppose you could tell people "I go to [quiet, short mumble] Dartmouth Law" and do the same on your resume w/r/t the font size. That might give you the inside track to not being homeless. Lewis & Clark grads probably do this with Northwestern, but lots of them actually want to be homeless, I guess.

don't do it kid

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ballcaps
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby ballcaps » Wed May 13, 2015 11:16 am

i sense trolling because the OP hits so many TLS lightning rods (terrible schools w/little $, assumption that PI is easy, plan to transfer.)

however, if not, i want to emphasize that both options are really bad and you should take neither. nor should you plan to "work really hard and transfer."

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TasmanianToucan
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby TasmanianToucan » Wed May 13, 2015 11:26 am

If this is trolling it's gotta be the most boring troll ever. Spice it up, buddy!

If it's not trolling, OP should take note that he's being so ridiculous that people literally cannot believe he is for real.

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jenesaislaw
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby jenesaislaw » Wed May 13, 2015 6:36 pm

Solo firm won't qualify you for PSLF unless you incorporate as a 501c3. I don't see why that'd be a problem, though I don't know of anybody really doing that except for a low bono shop out in Utah, but it's worth noting that if you just start a solo practice like everybody else you won't get the 10-year forgiveness.

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JohannDeMann
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby JohannDeMann » Wed May 13, 2015 6:42 pm

I'd prolly go Marquette because there is a solid chance you will fail the bar.

honestkid21
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby honestkid21 » Wed May 13, 2015 7:18 pm

Thank you all who have given my situation serious consideration. Anyone else's input is greatly appreciate it. If you think this is a troll. Dont bother posting in it. It is not . To the last person who posted. Did your parents not teach you manners? If you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all.

Traynor Brah
Posts: 718
Joined: Sun Apr 19, 2015 10:23 pm

Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby Traynor Brah » Wed May 13, 2015 8:17 pm

honestkid21 wrote:Thank you all who have given my situation serious consideration. Anyone else's input is greatly appreciate it. If you think this is a troll. Dont bother posting in it. It is not . To the last person who posted. Did your parents not teach you manners? If you have nothing nice to say, dont say anything at all.

he's being serious. Johann essentially never tells anyone not to go to law school. if these are your options, it means you did very poorly on the LSAT and probably pretty poorly in undergrad; thus, you're a prime candidate to fail to the bar. So it follows that Johann's advice would lead you to avoid that issue.

And people are right to be inclined to think you are trolling -- it is difficult to believe someone could be so thick as to consider these options when the person 1) knows how to use google and 2) has used google to find a law school admissions site. Takes some serious willful ignorance to make this kind of thread, because we know you're playing dumb or avoiding crucial information at some level.

And sorry to be really blunt about this -- for real. But this isn't something to screw around with. You are, in all seriousness, going to ruin your young adult life if you take one of these options. Beating around the bush isn't going to do you any favors.

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BasilHallward
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby BasilHallward » Wed May 13, 2015 8:51 pm

I bet my life that this is trolling banter. If not, then I envy OP's naivety in the face of reality.

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transferror
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby transferror » Wed May 13, 2015 9:29 pm

How strong is the clinic at Pace? What is their specialty ranking in immigration? These are important. Do your research.

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strugglebus
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby strugglebus » Wed May 13, 2015 9:41 pm

transferror wrote:How strong is the clinic at Pace? What is their specialty ranking in immigration? These are important. Do your research.

lololol

6lehderjets
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby 6lehderjets » Wed May 13, 2015 9:51 pm

This calling troll thing on posts that you guys just disagree with is getting ridiculous. It adds nothing to the conversation. Some people are actually not aware of the risks involved with law school.

honestkid21
Posts: 5
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Re: Pace Law Vs. Marquette Law

Postby honestkid21 » Wed May 13, 2015 10:04 pm

My LSAT was a 150. My undergrad was a 3.3GPA. If you consider that "doing very poorly" I guess you can say that. According to my research thats about the 50 percentile of all law school applicants. I also want to add that my first practice LSAT score was 134. Forgive me for being proud of my improvement and being hesitant to want to retake the test. Specially since I have only been speaking English for 3 years and not a lifetime.
Last edited by honestkid21 on Wed May 13, 2015 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.




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