NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

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Toughchoices
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NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby Toughchoices » Thu May 07, 2015 12:38 pm

Hey everyone!! Decided to appeal to the wisdom of the forum!

NYU = 200k (total cost of attendance with interest).
Berkeley = 60k (total cost of attendance with interest).

Goal: International law/arbitration at BigLaw for 5-7 years, then policy/politics.
Geographical preferences: Never lived in SF, don't know many people there. I've lived in NY and have an extended professional network here. I don't know enough about SF to make any conclusions, but wouldn't want to work in LA for sure.
Financials: Tiny help from parents + schollys + loans.
Other: Reverse splitter, no retakes left, have to make a decision soon.

Is NYU's international program and being in NYC worth the extra $140K? I am heavily leaning toward NYU, but the cost difference is pulling me back. Thanks for your input!
Last edited by Toughchoices on Thu May 07, 2015 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Thu May 07, 2015 12:39 pm

Yes that is crazy

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Thu May 07, 2015 12:39 pm

Go to Berkeley

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Hand
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby Hand » Thu May 07, 2015 12:41 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:Yes that is crazy

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Big Red
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby Big Red » Thu May 07, 2015 12:43 pm

Have you not negotiated?

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L’Étranger
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby L’Étranger » Thu May 07, 2015 12:45 pm

Wow. What scholarship did you get from B?

The schools are peers. No reason to pay that much more for NYU given your interests. If the scholarships were reversed, given your interests, I would have told you to go to NYU.

mvp99
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby mvp99 » Thu May 07, 2015 12:48 pm

Toughchoices wrote:Hey everyone!! Long time lurker here. Decided to appeal to the wisdom of the forum!

NYU = 200k (total cost of attendance with interest).
Berkeley = 60k (total cost of attendance with interest).

Goal: International law/arbitration at BigLaw for 5-7 years, then policy/politics.
Geographical preferences: Never lived in SF, don't know many people there. I've lived in NY and have an extended professional network here. I don't know enough about SF to make any conclusions, but wouldn't want to work in LA for sure.
Financials: Tiny help from parents + schollys + loans.
Other: Reverse splitter, no retakes left, have to make a decision soon.

Is NYU's international program and being in NYC worth the extra $140K? I am heavily leaning toward NYU, but the cost difference is pulling me back. Thanks for your input!


When you say international law, what do you mean? ICSID arbitration?

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Comma.Split
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby Comma.Split » Thu May 07, 2015 12:49 pm

L’Étranger wrote:Wow. What scholarship did you get from B?

The schools are peers. No reason to pay that much more for NYU given your interests. If the scholarships were reversed, given your interests, I would have told you to go to NYU.


I was under the assumption that Berkeley didn't have a strong international law program? They claim they do, but I found no evidence of that.

I received 25% more money from Berkeley + an outside scholly to go to a CA law school. That's why the difference is so huge.

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Comma.Split
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby Comma.Split » Thu May 07, 2015 12:51 pm

mvp99 wrote:
Toughchoices wrote:Hey everyone!! Long time lurker here. Decided to appeal to the wisdom of the forum!

NYU = 200k (total cost of attendance with interest).
Berkeley = 60k (total cost of attendance with interest).

Goal: International law/arbitration at BigLaw for 5-7 years, then policy/politics.
Geographical preferences: Never lived in SF, don't know many people there. I've lived in NY and have an extended professional network here. I don't know enough about SF to make any conclusions, but wouldn't want to work in LA for sure.
Financials: Tiny help from parents + schollys + loans.
Other: Reverse splitter, no retakes left, have to make a decision soon.

Is NYU's international program and being in NYC worth the extra $140K? I am heavily leaning toward NYU, but the cost difference is pulling me back. Thanks for your input!


When you say international law, what do you mean? ICSID arbitration?


Including ICSID. I am not interested in human rights, immigration, or anything like that. International investment, international commercial litigation and arbitration is what I want to do.

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Winston1984
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby Winston1984 » Thu May 07, 2015 12:51 pm

Berk

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Comma.Split
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby Comma.Split » Thu May 07, 2015 12:53 pm

Am I wrong in assuming that NYU > Berkeley in international law? Or is it that you don't think the difference is worth 140k?

BTW sorry for the confusion, this is my second account.

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worldtraveler
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby worldtraveler » Thu May 07, 2015 1:14 pm

There's a ton of ICSID stuff at Berkeley and at pretty much every other top law school.

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L’Étranger
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby L’Étranger » Thu May 07, 2015 1:18 pm

Comma.Split wrote:Am I wrong in assuming that NYU > Berkeley in international law? Or is it that you don't think the difference is worth 140k?

BTW sorry for the confusion, this is my second account.


I have no idea who has the better curriculum. However, a school's curriculum or alleged specialization actually has no bearing on biglaw placement.

It sounds like you want to work at a biglaw firm with a significant international presence. You'll probably need the same grades from either school to land at a firm like that.

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rpupkin
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby rpupkin » Thu May 07, 2015 1:58 pm

Comma.Split wrote:Including ICSID. I am not interested in human rights, immigration, or anything like that. International investment, international commercial litigation and arbitration is what I want to do.

I'm no expert on those areas, but I imagine that NYC is a better place to be for those interests. That makes NYU better for reasons of geographic proximity alone. But $140K better? C'mon.

Go to Berkeley and then spend your summers working in NYC.

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Comma.Split
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby Comma.Split » Thu May 07, 2015 2:01 pm

rpupkin wrote:
Comma.Split wrote:Including ICSID. I am not interested in human rights, immigration, or anything like that. International investment, international commercial litigation and arbitration is what I want to do.

I'm no expert on those areas, but I imagine that NYC is a better place to be for those interests. That makes NYU better for reasons of geographic proximity alone. But $140K better? C'mon.

Go to Berkeley and then spend your summers working in NYC.


That's what I heard. Most private international law work in done in NYC. Any idea how hard it would be to get a summer gig in NYC coming from Berkeley?

DportIA
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby DportIA » Thu May 07, 2015 2:20 pm

You're an idiot.

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jbagelboy
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby jbagelboy » Thu May 07, 2015 2:29 pm

Sure NYU is "better" for those interests and has a more sophisticated international program, and if the schools were equally priced I'd lean NYU for that reason. But this is just fucking crazy. Those considerations are negligible in the grand scheme of tens or hundreds of thousands of dollars. You can go work at firms with those practice area specialties from either school. Don't throw away your money like this. Go to berkeley.

blsingindisguise
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby blsingindisguise » Thu May 07, 2015 2:33 pm

When people say "international law" it's a classic red flag for "I don't really have much of an idea of what the practice of law is actually like."

Which is fine, plenty of ultimately successful lawyers don't when they start law school. But it's not a good reason to take on $160K extra in debt. Do you understand that that amount of money is the difference between being forced to stay in biglaw as an indentured servant and being a free person? Will the sexiness of knowing that the documents you're reviewing are from an "international" litigation make the chain attaching you to your desk more comfortable?

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usn26
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby usn26 » Thu May 07, 2015 2:59 pm

UC Berkeley

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Comma.Split
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby Comma.Split » Thu May 07, 2015 3:02 pm

I have a decent idea of what the practice of law is like. I have 3 years of WE as a paralegal. So I am making an informed decision to go to law school. That's not my problem. My problem is choosing a school.

It looks like everyone agrees that Berkeley is a better option. But how much do you think the difference is really worth given my goals? 50k? Less?

blsingindisguise
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby blsingindisguise » Thu May 07, 2015 3:11 pm

Comma.Split wrote:I have a decent idea of what the practice of law is like. I have 3 years of WE as a paralegal. So I am making an informed decision to go to law school. That's not my problem. My problem is choosing a school.

It looks like everyone agrees that Berkeley is a better option. But how much do you think the difference is really worth given my goals? 50k? Less?


I'm just saying that "international" really does not make any difference when you're actually litigating in most cases. You rarely are actually dealing with an "international law" issue in such litigation, most of the time it's one jurisdiction's law or another, and if it's a foreign jurisdiction's law it's probably going to be primarily handled by lawyers in that country, not you. And even if you were working on the unicorn case where "international law" actually came into play, there's very little that makes it more interesting than any other case. I have litigated several "international" matters -- the only thing that was different was that service of process was more complicated, we needed a translator for some documents, and some depos had to be done by video.

As for the cost difference, I would try to put it into real terms by looking at the difference in monthly payment on a 10-year plan (or shorter). It's probably going to be at least a couple thousand dollars a month. Ask yourself whether it's worth sacrificing $2500/month of takehome pay for ten years in order to get whatever boost NYU gives you.

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Clyde Frog
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby Clyde Frog » Thu May 07, 2015 3:24 pm

Lol international law

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L’Étranger
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby L’Étranger » Thu May 07, 2015 3:29 pm

Comma.Split wrote:I have a decent idea of what the practice of law is like. I have 3 years of WE as a paralegal. So I am making an informed decision to go to law school. That's not my problem. My problem is choosing a school.

It looks like everyone agrees that Berkeley is a better option. But how much do you think the difference is really worth given my goals? 50k? Less?


What??? What are you asking?

If you are just an average dude or dudette, no one should have to convince you to choose Berkeley over NYU for $140K less to get some unicorn law job. Period.

If 140K ain't nothin' but a thang to you, then by all means go to NYU. No need for this annoying thread.

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SemperLegal
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby SemperLegal » Thu May 07, 2015 3:57 pm

Comma.Split wrote:
rpupkin wrote:
Comma.Split wrote:Including ICSID. I am not interested in human rights, immigration, or anything like that. International investment, international commercial litigation and arbitration is what I want to do.

I'm no expert on those areas, but I imagine that NYC is a better place to be for those interests. That makes NYU better for reasons of geographic proximity alone. But $140K better? C'mon.

Go to Berkeley and then spend your summers working in NYC.


That's what I heard. Most private international law work in done in NYC. Any idea how hard it would be to get a summer gig in NYC coming from Berkeley?



It is easier to get a job in NYC than SF from UC-B. I have no idea, nor does anyone, if its easier to get a NYC job from NYU or UC-B. All the NYC firms send at least a reader to B (some sent only SF attorneys to OCI, but then did NY callbacks for people who wanted NY.) NYU is a marginally better school, but UC-B has the advantage of opaque grading (its easier to hid that your median or below, and its easier to pad your transcript with a lot of easy H classes because they dont "weight" HH/H/P by credit hour). Also, there is some exoticness to UC-B that I think gives a VERY slight bump.

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Redamon1
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Re: NYU $ v Berkeley $$$$. Am I crazy?

Postby Redamon1 » Thu May 07, 2015 7:22 pm

Hey OP, you should really pick Berkeley at this price. Boalt has a strong IL program, and whatever marginal superiority NYC's might have, it's not worth this premium. And in terms of job placement in big law arbitration, I have similar interests and got offers from top NYC firms doing this kind of work. I'm not saying it comes automatically, but all things being equal (grades, experience, interviewing skills etc.), I believe the outcomes out of NYU and Berkeley for your interests are very similar. Happy to discuss details in PM.




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