UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

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tjlindle
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UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby tjlindle » Wed May 06, 2015 12:28 am

Hello,

First time posting after lurking in the shadows for some time. Please be gentle ;)

Decision: UNC Chapel Hill with no scholarships, vs. Campbell Law with full-ride.

UNC Law Details: Applied fairly late, was accepted as an in-state resident, no offered merit scholarships at this time. Hopefully some aid will be forthcoming.

Campbell Law Details: Full-Ride ($37,800 renewable annually). Scholarship is contingent on academic eligibility, i.e. as long as I don't flunk out, I get to keep it. No GPA or class rank strings attached. This has been confirmed with three separate individuals in three separate departments at Campbell, including the Dean of the school, to ensure that I'm understanding this correctly.

Cost of Living: Will commute to either location from free housing in Raleigh (fortunate connection through my parents). Factor higher cost of gas and parking into attending UNC, but that's a drop in the bucket when TLS posters seem to throw around $150,000-$200,000 debt figures like baseballs.

Future Plans: I want to stay in the Raleigh area, and I definitely will not be leaving NC unless forced to by unforeseeable circumstances.

LSAT: 166, taken once after studying the weekend prior.

Undergrad GPA: 3.39. Quite low because I graduated from Chapel Hill in two years and nearly flunked out my first semester due to family circumstances (i.e. not a lot of space to disperse the GPA hurt of that semester). Every succeeding semester was 3.6 or higher.

My 0L perspective estimate COA for UNC: ~$82,000. $22,000 tuition for each of 3 years + 7% accrued annual debt interest + marginal tuition hikes + books + commuting expenses. Not counting post-graduate costs e.g. bar exam.

My 0L perspective estimate COA for Campbell: $7,000. $2,000 tuition (estimated price hikes) total for 3 years + books + commuting expenses. Not counting post-graduate costs e.g. bar exam.

"Do you have strong ties to NC?" Yes, including to several individuals in the legal profession here in Raleigh such as district judges (not sure if relevant).

My thoughts:
I did my undergrad at UNC, I love UNC and would like to return for law school. But $80,000 is a lot of money, so Campbell's full-ride is tempting.

SHORT VERSION
What I need is fairly/decently experienced help with answering these questions:
1. Is UNC JD worth it at ~$80,000 more than Campbell/TTT JD?
2. Is it literally impossible to get decent jobs out of Campbell? I'm a film producer, I know how to hustle. I'll do it at both schools. I just need to make sure Campbell isn't an employer buzzkill regardless of hustle.
3. Is an $80,000 debt (no additional undergrad debt, had full-ride) something I can manage with the "median" i.e. most likely outcome coming out of law school? Or will it ruin my life, no car, no house, no wife, etc.; I have no way of knowing this because I've never been $80k in debt and I don't know what the legal market is like as a 3L/post-grad looking for entry-level jobs.

Miscellaneous other info:
Didn't apply to any schools outside NC.
Turned down half-tuition scholly and admission at Wake Forest Law.

Thanks y'all! I'll answer any questions. Cheers!

p.s. Career-wise, would like to do regulatory/administrative law and work in an agency/firm in Raleigh. Possibly segue into politics down the line.

EDIT: Sorry for the wall-of-text, just wanted to provide as much information as possible!
Last edited by tjlindle on Fri May 08, 2015 4:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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JohannDeMann
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby JohannDeMann » Wed May 06, 2015 1:25 am

I think UNC is worth 80k more. I'd go for it.

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Wed May 06, 2015 2:18 am

JohannDeMann wrote:I think UNC is worth 80k more. I'd go for it.


I agree. I also think you should be able to get some $ out of UNC.

timbs4339
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby timbs4339 » Wed May 06, 2015 9:59 am

80K is about as high as I would go for UNC, but it's doable. It's enough that if you are making the median salary in private sector jobs that it's going to be a big drain on your finances for a few years out of law school, but in a decade or so you'll probably be doing decently- you're just not going living the dream of an upper-middle class yuppie. The benefit is that it has many times the placement into elite jobs as Campbell (about 20% to Campbell's 3%), so if you do hit law school out of the park, you have wider options (NOTE: always assume median, always assume median, always assume median).

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Winston1984
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby Winston1984 » Wed May 06, 2015 10:02 am

I think you are making a big mistake by not retaking and reapplying. I'm not sure what kind of circumstances would force someone to attend law school now instead of next year.

Not sure why you would transfer if you are top 5% from UNC. You would probably have really good options.

I wouldn't pay that much for UNC, but I wouldn't go to Campbell for free. I guess UNC is the better of two bad options.

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usn26
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby usn26 » Wed May 06, 2015 10:14 am

OhBoyOhBortles wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:I think UNC is worth 80k more. I'd go for it.


I agree. I also think you should be able to get some $ out of UNC.


Hopefully you can drive that debt down, but I think that's probably a manageable number for the typical UNC outcome.

Traynor Brah
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby Traynor Brah » Wed May 06, 2015 10:18 am

UNC is, in my opinion, clearly a better option at that price difference.

But there is no reasonable family situation that is forcing you to go to law school this year.

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chuckbass
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby chuckbass » Wed May 06, 2015 10:33 am

Also, does graduating in two years mean you're no older than 20? Don't committ to a career that you don't know you'll enjoy that young.

Hutz_and_Goodman
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby Hutz_and_Goodman » Wed May 06, 2015 10:43 am

I wouldn't attend Campbell at any price. Even if they paid me $20k a year to attend. UNC at that price is not unreasonable. Work as hard as you can first year bc if you get good grades you can have a great outcome.

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TasmanianToucan
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby TasmanianToucan » Wed May 06, 2015 10:49 am

I don't know whether UNC is worth it, but I know that Campbell isn't unless you really want to be a shingle guy.

I wonder what family circumstances could possibly necessitate your going to law school right-the-hell-now? Is working for a year really impossible? I'm amazed at how often "can't retake" ends up meaning "really don't wanna retake."

tjlindle
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby tjlindle » Wed May 06, 2015 1:19 pm

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Last edited by tjlindle on Fri May 08, 2015 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby CanadianWolf » Wed May 06, 2015 1:29 pm

$80,000 total COA is, in my opinion, reasonable for UNC for one wishing to live & work in North Carolina.

Additionally, since you want to enter North Carolina politics, UNC should offer a much greater base of support & of potential supporters than would Campbell.

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Winston1984
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby Winston1984 » Wed May 06, 2015 1:51 pm

People have strange relationships with their parents.

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TasmanianToucan
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby TasmanianToucan » Wed May 06, 2015 1:59 pm

This situation gets points for originality. I guess the 80,000 is doable for you. After all, if your parents are that well off you won't end up on the street, although I hate to think of what you'll have to sign up for in order to ever get bailed out again... Dental school, perhaps?

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Wed May 06, 2015 2:05 pm

TasmanianToucan wrote:This situation gets points for originality. I guess the 80,000 is doable for you. After all, if your parents are that well off you won't end up on the street, although I hate to think of what you'll have to sign up for in order to ever get bailed out again... Dental school, perhaps?

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usn26
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby usn26 » Wed May 06, 2015 2:11 pm

Winston1984 wrote:People have strange relationships with their parents.


The things you learn on TLS...

Traynor Brah
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby Traynor Brah » Wed May 06, 2015 2:15 pm

your parents sound like terrible people, no offense.

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KMart
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby KMart » Wed May 06, 2015 2:20 pm

If 80k is peanuts to them and they're paying for it, I'd take the UNC offer. You'll likely get something there anyway.

arturobelano
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby arturobelano » Wed May 06, 2015 2:36 pm

This actually IS a unique situation. I have a weird proposal: quit whatever you're doing right now, hit that 60-hour-a-week LSAT grind, and late register for June. If you improve measurably, you could either A) drive the price tag at UNC down considerably or B) enter a range where Duke is feasible next year, which would give you leverage in convincing your parents to let you postpone and figure your shit out.

tjlindle
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby tjlindle » Wed May 06, 2015 2:54 pm

.
Last edited by tjlindle on Fri May 08, 2015 3:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

tjlindle
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby tjlindle » Wed May 06, 2015 2:57 pm

arturobelano wrote:This actually IS a unique situation. I have a weird proposal: quit whatever you're doing right now, hit that 60-hour-a-week LSAT grind, and late register for June. If you improve measurably, you could either A) drive the price tag at UNC down considerably or B) enter a range where Duke is feasible next year, which would give you leverage in convincing your parents to let you postpone and figure your shit out.


That's an interesting alternative I hadn't considered. Thank you.

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stego
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby stego » Tue May 12, 2015 9:52 pm

tjlindle wrote:
arturobelano wrote:This actually IS a unique situation. I have a weird proposal: quit whatever you're doing right now, hit that 60-hour-a-week LSAT grind, and late register for June. If you improve measurably, you could either A) drive the price tag at UNC down considerably or B) enter a range where Duke is feasible next year, which would give you leverage in convincing your parents to let you postpone and figure your shit out.


That's an interesting alternative I hadn't considered. Thank you.


I applied to UNC this cycle and was accepted with $, but not enough to justify attending. I asked for more money and they said they couldn't give out any more. Maybe I'm just a terrible negotiator and you'll have better luck with a higher score this cycle, but don't count on it.

Either way, you need to take the time to actually study for the LSAT and retake. A few points difference can mean thousands of dollars in scholarships. Retake in June and see what UNC says.

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SquedTheScholar
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby SquedTheScholar » Sat May 30, 2015 10:39 am

RETAKE

FirmBiz
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby FirmBiz » Sat May 30, 2015 2:25 pm

I think this is a pretty unique situation. It basically depends on whether or not you want to do big law. If yes, then go to UNC, if its not a priority for you, then maybe Campbell is the better option.

With Campbell, you are going to go to a less academically competitive program (comparing LSAT scores between the two), so theres a higher chance you can become a top 5-10% of the class type of student. So then employment becomes less of an issue because you are a stronger student and at the top of your class.

Plus you essentially have a guaranteed full scholarship and get to start your life with 0 debt.

I would probably lean towards Campbell because of the guaranteed full scholarship.

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ExBiglawAssociate
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Re: UNC (No Scholly) vs Campbell (Full-Ride)

Postby ExBiglawAssociate » Sat May 30, 2015 2:46 pm

What is a Campbell Law?




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