UW (Gregoire Fellow) or GW (60k) Forum

[DecisionMaker100]

Hey TLS,

I'm trying to decide between the 2 following options:

1- University of Washington School of Law with the Gregoire Fellowship (more info here>> http://www.law.washington.edu/FinAid/Gr ... ellow.aspx)

2- George Washington Law School with 60k.

Information about myself:
a. Took the lsat 3 times
b. Will probably practice outside of both Seattle and DC a few years after graduation (my wife is international, so I'm probably going to work outside the states)
c. The rest of COA will be covered by parents (they insisted, so this should not be a factor in my decision)
d. I never visited either city. I think I will be comfortable at both.

Thanks everyone.

[DecisionMaker100]

Thanks for the poll responses guys. Those who voted, and others, why do you think choice 1 or choice 2 is better?

[CanadianWolf]

What are the fellowship benefits?

[BigZuck]

I'm pretty positive Gregoire Fellow is a Game of Thrones character and not a law school scholarship

Your law school grades would matter for transferring, not fellowship status or where you intern. 1L summer internships don't really matter and aren't prestigious or anything. It's impossible to predict how well you will do gradewise going in, so don't plan on transferring.

I wouldn't go to either school without a burning desire to work in the area long term (and, ideally, prexisting ties especially when it comes to UW)

I think geographic flexibility is in many ways a flame but if you want it, you need to retake and aim higher than these schools IMO.

[redtalun]

UW has an almost non-existent reputation outside of the Pacific Northwest (WA/OR/ID).
Where outside the states would you end up? Despite what I just said, UW has a pretty robust LLM program and strong reputation in Asia, especially Japan.

[mt2165]

That UW scholarship comes with a guaranteed SA in the area you want to practice? That's gotta be huge. Even if its more a formality and they don't generally extend offers that's a great opportunity for someone aiming for a secondary market. I'd take that one but with your geographical goals neither is great.

[googlyeyes]

Hey TLS,

I'm trying to decide between the 2 following options:

1- University of Washington School of Law with the Gregoire Fellowship (more info here>> http://www.law.washington.edu/FinAid/Gr ... ellow.aspx)

2- George Washington Law School with 60k.

Information about myself:
a. Took the lsat 3 times
b. Will probably practice outside of both Seattle and DC after graduation (my wife is international, so I'm probably going to work outside the states)
c. The rest of COA will be covered by parents (they insisted, so this should not be a factor in my decision)
d. There is a slight possibility that my wife will find a job in Cali in 2016. So I might consider transferring after 1L if this happens. (does having the gregoire fellowship which means i will have a guaranteed internship at 1L increase my chances of transferring into a better school?)
e. I never visited either city. I think I will be comfortable at both.

Thanks everyone.

congrats on the scholarship! I submitted an app too but alas, didn't get it. Were you offered any merit scholarship before the Gregoire app?

[Clemenceau]

Are you from Seattle? If not, I prob wouldn't go to UW. I've seen it reiterated on this forum several times that Seattle is a very insular, ties-sensitive market. I'm not sure attending UW alone would be sufficient to get a decent job there.

As for GW... How rich are your parents? Will ~$65k/year be afforded with ease?

Even if your parents are seriously that loaded, I would retake/reapply and try to snag a t14 at/near sticker.

Plus, if you take a year off, you might have a better idea where your wife will be, so you can target a school in that market.

Your numbers?

[green.tea]

A condition of the UW scholarship is the "intent to return at the conclusion of the first year." If you're looking to transfer, I'd check the fine print, because it could be problematic for the $ and summer internship.

[OhBoyOhBortles]

Are you from Seattle? If not, I prob wouldn't go to UW. I've seen it reiterated on this forum several times that Seattle is a very insular, ties-sensitive market. I'm not sure attending UW alone would be sufficient to get a decent job there.

As for GW... How rich are your parents? Will ~$65k/year be afforded with ease?

Even if your parents are seriously that loaded, I would retake/reapply and try to snag a t14 at/near sticker.

Plus, if you take a year off, you might have a better idea where your wife will be, so you can target a school in that market.

Your numbers?

[DecisionMaker100]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Money will not be an issue for parents. I can't retake because I maxed out my LSAT takes in Feb. I'm not from Seattle and I don't have ties there.

Taking a year off is definitely an option, but with my current options, I think I outperformed my numbers this cycle so I don't want to sit it out after UG.

[khaleesiqueen1]

Go to UW. Those internships on your resume seem like a sweet deal.

How hard is it to get into this fellowship at UW? Is it only based on diversity of applicants?

[mohdban]

I wonder why some are voting GW? Aren't job prospectives out of these schools the same for their respective regions? And since OP has no ties to DC or Seattle, wouldn't the opportunities provided to him by the fellowship (1l SA at a corporate + law firm + 20k stiped + 75k scholarship + networking with WA previous governor and multiple law firms) give him better prospects at Seattle and would be TCR over GW with 60k?

And even if OP is not planning to work in the States, wouldn't UW still be the better option with the fellowship perks? I bet UW is more well known as a university abroad because of how well it does in every ranking system.

I'm curious because I am in a situation somewhat similar to OP.

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

If money's not a problem and you're OK practicing in DC/VA/MD, choice is GWU.

[CanadianWolf]

If the 60k is per year at GW, then it becomes a reasonable option; if the 60k is spread over three years, then the clear choice is UW due to the scholarship & guaranteed SA.

[DecisionMaker100]

Thanks for the responses everyone! 60k is per 3 years at GWU. But as I said before, money should not be a factor in my decision. If money is absolutely no factor, would UW with the fellowship still be the better choice for me?

[BigZuck]

I don't think it can be understated how poor both of these choices are for you, based on what you've said here.

The correct answer is neither, IMO.

[CanadianWolf]

It depends upon your career plans. The key to the fellowship is the guaranteed SA placement in an area of interest to you. If you want international transactional work, for example, then arrange a summer SA with a law firm with offices abroad or with a major company such as Nike or Microsoft which offers worldwide placement opportunities. Also, if Asia is a region of interest, then UW might be a great place to study--but you should contact UW about this.

If you can get into a major company (Starbucks, Nike, Microsoft, Apple, etc) for your 1L SA placement, then you should be well ahead of the game if you network with a clear objective in mind.

Again, the guaranteed SA placement (with a $20,000 stipend) in an area of your interest plus a $25,000 per year scholarship makes UW a solid choice, in my opinion. Additionally, the fellowship offers a $5,000 bar study stipend. The offer of either a single or split summer placement also adds tremendous value, in my opinion.

P.S. I have relatives who work for a few major corps. for decades & , as related to me, it's more of who you know then where you went to school. Several have very high level positions abroad. Your summer SA placement should get you into the better (who you know) category.
Also, if you are proficient or fluent in a major foreign language, then your career opportunities should soar.

[postard]

Yeah, the people saying "Don't go to UW if you don't want Seattle" may be overlooking that this includes a guaranteed 1L biglaw SA, with the option of splitting with Microsoft or some other corporation. Do it.

[Clemenceau]

Again, the guaranteed SA placement in an area of your interest plus a full tuition scholarship makes UW a solid choice, in my opinion.

I think people are missing the fact that this isn't a full tuition scholly. Its 25k/yr and oos tuition is over 45k/yr at uw

But op insists money shouldn't be a factor, so whateva

[postard]

20k/yr for a fast track into biglaw is something that people at some of the lower T14 would probably enjoy!

[BigZuck]

20k/yr for a fast track into biglaw is something that people at some of the lower T14 would probably enjoy!

If it turns out the OP isn't particularly good at law school and just ends up with like median or top 3rd grades or whatever then I don't think big law is likely. Even if GRRM himself tried to pull some strings I think the OP would be on the outside looking in.

Maybe I'm underestimating the power of this Gregoire Fellow fellow. But a 1L SA in and of itself doesn't guarantee a 2L SA or big law after graduation. Maybe this program is truly special and the 0Ls who take it are fated big law. Color me skeptical though.

[postard]

Yeah, I think this is the first year they did this. Gregoire was the previous governor of the state, fwiw.

[CanadianWolf]

Although this is not a full tuition scholarship, there are additional perks that make the fellowship very appealing. For example, the guaranteed 1L summer SA placement pays $20,000 & can be split into two 5 week placements (which can be both major corps., major law firms or one of each) or taken as a single 10 week placement, a $5,000 stipend to study for the bar, & four meetings per year with the former governor & the other fellows. (This could & should make state government placements more likely after the 1L SA if desired.)
Also, it would be interesting if someone could comment on the availability of in-state tuition/residency after 1L year.

Unfortunately, OP has not shared the location of his possible overseas interest. If in Asia, then UW should be a great launching point.

[usn26]

I find it odd that they'd offer this to someone who's never even been to Seattle (or Washington, sounds like). Good for OP, though. Seems like a good deal.