Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

UVA or Columbia

UVA
13
81%
Columbia
3
19%
 
Total votes: 16

User avatar
aibohphobia
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:07 am

Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby aibohphobia » Fri May 01, 2015 4:09 pm

I've been to UVA and really liked the school, culture, and city. I'm not a huge fan of NYC but if it provides me a better return on the investment of three years and however much money then I'm happy to do it. Columbia also seems to have a gunner reputation (which i would not enjoy), but I keep hearing mixed things on that so I'm not too sure. I'm getting the feeling UVA is TCR here, but there was a thread I found here once where they polled TLS users for employment outcomes based on school, rank, journals, etc that is holding me back. I can't find it now but it seemed to suggest that while biglaw placement occurred at both schools, kids from ccn have tremendously more access to high ranked vault firms. While the value of the vault rankings is probably minimal, I assume that selectivity in hiring is loosely associated with vault ranking. I think I'm overthinking what should be an easy decision but I wanted to get some thoughts before I decide.

-The schools you are considering

Columbia with 50k and UVA with 90K. Negotiations already attempted

-COA

Columbia: 160k; UVA: 72k (includes savings and parental contribution, does not include any potential income during school)

-How you will be financing your COA, i.e. loans, family, or savings

Family, savings, and then the rest (the above COA) with loans

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties (if any)

from the south and only have ties in the south. Open to working anywhere (houston, chicago, nashville, austin, DC, charlotte, anywhere in california) so I have a preference for portability of degree. I have accepted that my initial start might have to be NYC biglaw though.

-Your general career goals

DC Biglaw to eventual in house somewhere. I have a non phd patent qual (BS physics) but it seems that will be of little worth.

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
176 (one take) and 3.7 (GPA distorted slightly)

User avatar
transferror
Posts: 816
Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 5:42 pm

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby transferror » Fri May 01, 2015 4:16 pm

Did you apply late? I'd think a 176/3.7 would have pulled at least 120-150k from somewhere in the T14.

Anyway, UVA for under 75k + ties to South for generic biglaw is a great outcome. No reason to pay the extra $$

User avatar
aibohphobia
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:07 am

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby aibohphobia » Fri May 01, 2015 4:23 pm

I didn't apply to some of the t14 that may have given me $$$ (northwestern, georgetown, Michigan) but some who seemed like likely candidates didn't really put forth much either so I'm not too sure what happened (Cornell 90k, ut 45k and oos tution). I am basically an ORM and I do have some other areas of my app that are weaker though. Most schools that were likely to give me money I applied to pre-december but I threw in some hail mary's post december.

envisciguy
Posts: 311
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2011 7:15 pm

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby envisciguy » Fri May 01, 2015 4:40 pm

I don't know the poll you're referencing, but I'm not sure it's as big a difference as it might seem considering that 65% of the Columbia class goes to work in NY and the VAST majority of high ranking Vault firms are located in NY. So sure, Columbia might send more students to highly ranked Vault firms, but I'd assume a big chunk of that is due to self-selection. UVA sends a number of people to NY, but there are a good number of students for which NY is the last place they want to be. For a personal anecdote, I turned down two V10 NY firms to go to lower Vault ranked firm in a southern market.

If you're from the south and NY is near the bottom of your list of places to work, I think UVA is a pretty easy choice, though I'm obviously biased as a UVA student.

User avatar
ILoveYou
Posts: 490
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:42 pm

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby ILoveYou » Fri May 01, 2015 4:54 pm

Non-UVA student here to offer a less clearly biased perspective.

Go to UVA, no question. If NYC is on the bottom of your list, and your ties are in the South, it's the easy choice at that price difference.

User avatar
Tiago Splitter
Posts: 15525
Joined: Tue Jun 28, 2011 1:20 am

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby Tiago Splitter » Fri May 01, 2015 5:00 pm

I think you should go to UVA even if you were born and raised in NYC and only want to work there, but how does the COA difference end up being so large?

User avatar
aibohphobia
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:07 am

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby aibohphobia » Fri May 01, 2015 7:12 pm

Tiago Splitter wrote:I think you should go to UVA even if you were born and raised in NYC and only want to work there, but how does the COA difference end up being so large?

CLS had 5k/yr more in tuition and i added 4k/yr to my room and board and 1k/yr in personal expenses for cls as well. So 10k/yr more in expenses and 40k less scholarship total for a difference of 70k. At time of repayment including interest according to Law school transparency that' what i got. My totals for the initial year roughly matched each schools posted COA.

User avatar
Mack.Hambleton
Posts: 5417
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:09 am

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Fri May 01, 2015 8:04 pm

1. Reapply and go to T14 for free

2. UVA if you aren't going to do that and want to burn 100 thousand dollars for some reason

You shouldn't be going to a lower T14 on only a half scholarship with those numbers

User avatar
OhBoyOhBortles
Posts: 2258
Joined: Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:01 am

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Fri May 01, 2015 8:11 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:1. Reapply and go to T14 for free

2. UVA if you aren't going to do that and want to burn 100 thousand dollars for some reason

You shouldn't be going to a lower T14 on only a half scholarship with those numbers


Should definitely have better options. If you have to go this year, UVA. (but you don't)

User avatar
jbagelboy
Posts: 9653
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:57 pm

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby jbagelboy » Fri May 01, 2015 8:43 pm

I think you should definitely reapply. You should be getting full rides with those numbers.

I don't understand why UVA is so favored here. you're getting 30k/30k/30k from UVA and 20k/20k/10k toward CLS. So your scholarship is only $10k more the first two years and $20k more the final year than at CLS. I think Columbia is totally justified with these prices. The difference in placement power is not attributable to self selection.

The large discrepancy in price beyond $40k is in part cost of living. Yes, it costs more to live in manhattan. There's a reason for that: it's a much more highly desirable city. If you want to live in New York, you pay to live in new york. If you want to live in Charlottesville, you pay a lot less to live there, and it makes no sense to pay extra to live in New York.

User avatar
Mack.Hambleton
Posts: 5417
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:09 am

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Fri May 01, 2015 8:56 pm

Entirely subjective whether it's more desirable or not, I know plenty of people who would rather live in cville than Morningside heights at equal cost..

And how is columbia worth 90k more than UVA for generic biglaw? Yes placement is better but idk about 90 thousand dollars better

User avatar
downbeat14
Posts: 545
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2014 12:00 am

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby downbeat14 » Fri May 01, 2015 9:35 pm

OP, we have shockingly similar numbers and I'm really surprised these are your best options, particularly after negotiations. Are you amenable to sitting out and applying next cycle super early? I think you could get massive money at T14s (plus could spend the year saving up for 1L living expenses). Or you could likely get H if you want that (at least use for nego leverage), particularly with some WE or volunteer PI stuff.

User avatar
swampman
Posts: 489
Joined: Fri Sep 13, 2013 3:48 pm

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby swampman » Fri May 01, 2015 9:49 pm

jbagelboy wrote:I think you should definitely reapply. You should be getting full rides with those numbers.

I don't understand why UVA is so favored here. you're getting 30k/30k/30k from UVA and 20k/20k/10k toward CLS. So your scholarship is only $10k more the first two years and $20k more the final year than at CLS. I think Columbia is totally justified with these prices. The difference in placement power is not attributable to self selection.

The large discrepancy in price beyond $40k is in part cost of living. Yes, it costs more to live in manhattan. There's a reason for that: it's a much more highly desirable city. If you want to live in New York, you pay to live in new york. If you want to live in Charlottesville, you pay a lot less to live there, and it makes no sense to pay extra to live in New York.

Who cares that the discrepancy in COA is due to cost of living? Debt is debt whether it came from tuition or living expenses, and he's going to have to pay it off either way.

But yeah, OP should reapply.

User avatar
aibohphobia
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2014 2:07 am

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby aibohphobia » Fri May 01, 2015 10:12 pm

Mack.Hambleton wrote:1. Reapply and go to T14 for free

2. UVA if you aren't going to do that and want to burn 100 thousand dollars for some reason

You shouldn't be going to a lower T14 on only a half scholarship with those numbers


well I have a major c&f issue that means my cycle is harder to find comparable data for. I would reapply in a heartbeat if I thought It would improve my chances but I'm just not sure it would. At that point I would just have a year of reduced earning potential.

User avatar
Mack.Hambleton
Posts: 5417
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:09 am

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Fri May 01, 2015 10:17 pm

You didn't apply to like half the T14 so I'm not sure how positive you can be about that

03152016
Posts: 9189
Joined: Wed Dec 21, 2011 3:14 am

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby 03152016 » Fri May 01, 2015 11:19 pm

aibohphobia wrote:
Mack.Hambleton wrote:1. Reapply and go to T14 for free

2. UVA if you aren't going to do that and want to burn 100 thousand dollars for some reason

You shouldn't be going to a lower T14 on only a half scholarship with those numbers


well I have a major c&f issue that means my cycle is harder to find comparable data for. I would reapply in a heartbeat if I thought It would improve my chances but I'm just not sure it would. At that point I would just have a year of reduced earning potential.

prob doesn't matter unless it's big enough to cause problems w/ bar admission
i've spoken to admins about this

hill1334
Posts: 100
Joined: Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:31 pm

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby hill1334 » Fri May 01, 2015 11:23 pm

swampman wrote:
jbagelboy wrote:I think you should definitely reapply. You should be getting full rides with those numbers.

I don't understand why UVA is so favored here. you're getting 30k/30k/30k from UVA and 20k/20k/10k toward CLS. So your scholarship is only $10k more the first two years and $20k more the final year than at CLS. I think Columbia is totally justified with these prices. The difference in placement power is not attributable to self selection.

The large discrepancy in price beyond $40k is in part cost of living. Yes, it costs more to live in manhattan. There's a reason for that: it's a much more highly desirable city. If you want to live in New York, you pay to live in new york. If you want to live in Charlottesville, you pay a lot less to live there, and it makes no sense to pay extra to live in New York.

Who cares that the discrepancy in COA is due to cost of living? Debt is debt whether it came from tuition or living expenses, and he's going to have to pay it off either way.

But yeah, OP should reapply.


There is a middle ground in between your two positions. Debt is not debt. Debt is created by the spending of money, and the spending of money can be either objectively or subjectively better or worse depending on what that money was spent on (e.g., one could spend $10,000 on booze or one could spend $10,000 investing in a startup that leads one to make a million dollars). As a result, it could very well be worthwhile for someone to go into more debt in order to live in New York City than to live in Charlottesville as they will get more enjoyment out of living in NYC (and will therefore get more subjective value out of that debt). Regardless, their comes a point where the debt becomes too great to warrant such justifications, and I believe this is one such situation.

User avatar
WeeBey
Posts: 535
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 8:23 pm

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby WeeBey » Sat May 02, 2015 1:10 am

reapply and get a dilliard.

User avatar
Hikikomorist
Posts: 3177
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:05 pm

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby Hikikomorist » Sat May 02, 2015 1:26 am

WeeBey wrote:reapply and get a dilliardYP.

User avatar
Mack.Hambleton
Posts: 5417
Joined: Mon Jan 13, 2014 2:09 am

Re: Columbia ($) vs. UVA ($$)

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Sat May 02, 2015 2:10 am

WeeBey wrote:reapply and get a dilliard.


I'd say best chances at CNMDCN. Chicago Penn and UVA usually go for the real high GPAs




Return to “Choosing a Law School”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Yahoo [Bot] and 2 guests