Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

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schrokm6
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Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby schrokm6 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:21 pm

Cornell and Michigan have each offered me $50,000 a year in scholarships.
I've been accepted as a Webster Society (Public Interest) Scholar at WUSTL (full ride plus $5,000 stipend)

Also been admitted to Columbia, NYU, UVA, and Berkeley at sticker.
Georgetown and Vanderbilt w/ $35,000/yr in scholarships.

I have around $35,000 in student loan debt from undergrad and no savings.

I want to do something public interest but have no geographical preference.

LSAT 169/ GPA 3.8
Returned Peace Corps Volunteer

I'm deferring for a year and could technically re-take the LSAT.

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ILoveYou
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby ILoveYou » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:29 pm

Since you have the year anyway, retake and get more money is TCR, but if you don't or the score doesn't increase or whatever the $$$$ at WUSTL is looking pretty good.

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Fiero85
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby Fiero85 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:34 pm

schrokm6 wrote:I'm deferring for a year and could technically re-take the LSAT.


Do this. More money from T14s and possible access to the schools with good loan repayment programs for public interest.

Ideally a fully to one of your current contenders in the T14 or go to a high up school where they have established those good public interest systems.

Better placement and less financial risk is good, right?

schrokm6
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby schrokm6 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:36 pm

ILoveYou wrote: the $$$$ at WUSTL is looking pretty good.


even given pretty low employment stats?

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ILoveYou
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby ILoveYou » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:52 pm

schrokm6 wrote:
ILoveYou wrote: the $$$$ at WUSTL is looking pretty good.


even given pretty low employment stats?


Out of those options, with your goals, and barring a successful retake? Yeah, I think so. The numbers at WUSTL aren't dumpster-fire level, and if you're going PI for sure, I would want to minimize debt. You can't count on grabbing some unicorn PI job from any school really, so IMO it should really be about minimizing debt while you focus on finding a decent/livable one out of any decent school. You have no geographical preference, and don't mention any ties, so WUSTL seems like it offers the best chance to do that. This doesn't take into account those who are comfortable taking out a ton of debt and relying on LRAP/PAYE and whatnot, so there is that to consider as well I guess.

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landshoes
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby landshoes » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:58 pm

With a near-full ride at Cornell and Michigan, WUSTL doesn't make much sense.

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Fiero85
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby Fiero85 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:01 pm

landshoes wrote:With a near-full ride at Cornell and Michigan, WUSTL doesn't make much sense.


Oh shit, I misread the OP. I thought it was 50k total. I agree WUSTL is out if the difference is like 30k for Cornell and 20k for Mich.

But still retake, might as well.

BillClinton Jr
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby BillClinton Jr » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:08 pm

Withdraw and retake. A few points and you could be deciding between big money at schools like UVA/Penn/etc

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Hikikomorist
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby Hikikomorist » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:13 pm

I don't see what's wrong with Michigan at that cost, given that OP wants PI.

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Pragmatic Gun
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:19 pm

Hikkomorist wrote:I don't see what's wrong with Michigan at that cost, given that OP wants PI.


Yeah seriously.

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ILoveYou
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby ILoveYou » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:24 pm

Fiero85 wrote:
landshoes wrote:With a near-full ride at Cornell and Michigan, WUSTL doesn't make much sense.


Oh shit, I misread the OP. I thought it was 50k total. I agree WUSTL is out if the difference is like 30k for Cornell and 20k for Mich.

But still retake, might as well.



This exact same thing. Wow, I'm an asshole. Sorry OP. Yeah, def not WUSTL.

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transferror
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby transferror » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:29 pm

OP, do you have any roots or ties in the midwest?

schrokm6
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby schrokm6 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 9:36 pm

transferror wrote:OP, do you have any roots or ties in the midwest?


I'm from Illinois, but I would be happy to move to either coast or elsewhere if the job were right.

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Fiero85
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby Fiero85 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:00 pm

Pragmatic Gun wrote:
Hikkomorist wrote:I don't see what's wrong with Michigan at that cost, given that OP wants PI.


Yeah seriously.


Nothing wrong, a good option. But if OP has time to retake, might as well try. Stuff like big money to NYU is still in play I'd imagine.

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transferror
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby transferror » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:06 pm

schrokm6 wrote:
transferror wrote:OP, do you have any roots or ties in the midwest?


I'm from Illinois, but I would be happy to move to either coast or elsewhere if the job were right.


And specifically what type of public interest do you want to do (if you know)? Have you visited Ann Arbor and Ithaca?

I lean Michigan because I think it's a little more PI-oriented (though I have nothing to support this, just based on what I've heard on TLS) than Cornell and b/c I think it would give you better access to Chicago with your ties. NYC and DC will be open from both schools (obvi NYC moreso from Cornell than Mich), but it's honestly splitting hairs at this point.

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WeeBey
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby WeeBey » Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:28 pm

Unless you have a preference for Cornell/Ithaca, take Michigan. COL is similar between AA and Ithaca, but Mich is also 6k cheaper.

Also, with your schools LRAP, you probably wont have to pay anything for a couple years depending how much you make.

Correct my if I'm wrong, but for PI, isnt your background/dedication to PI more important than what school you go to?

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Pragmatic Gun
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby Pragmatic Gun » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:21 am

WeeBey wrote:Unless you have a preference for Cornell/Ithaca, take Michigan. COL is similar between AA and Ithaca, but Mich is also 6k cheaper.

Also, with your schools LRAP, you probably wont have to pay anything for a couple years depending how much you make.

Correct my if I'm wrong, but for PI, isnt your background/dedication to PI more important than what school you go to?


Unless OP is aiming for prestigious PI

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:24 am

I don't see why you wouldn't retake over the next year, but at the same time, 50k/yr at Michigan looks excellent. Can you keep that option on the table in case you don't improve or would you have to withdraw in order to reapply next year?

schrokm6
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby schrokm6 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:41 am

OhBoyOhBortles wrote:I don't see why you wouldn't retake over the next year, but at the same time, 50k/yr at Michigan looks excellent. Can you keep that option on the table in case you don't improve or would you have to withdraw in order to reapply next year?


I would have to withdraw and reapply (which sounds terrible). I think I could get a few points higher (at least break the 170s) but applications seem to be at an all time low and it seems risky without knowing what the applicant pool will look like next year. And of course there is the chance of doing worse on the LSAT.

schrokm6
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby schrokm6 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:42 am

Pragmatic Gun wrote:
WeeBey wrote:Unless you have a preference for Cornell/Ithaca, take Michigan. COL is similar between AA and Ithaca, but Mich is also 6k cheaper.

Also, with your schools LRAP, you probably wont have to pay anything for a couple years depending how much you make.

Correct my if I'm wrong, but for PI, isnt your background/dedication to PI more important than what school you go to?


Unless OP is aiming for prestigious PI


What do you mean?

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:48 am

schrokm6 wrote:
OhBoyOhBortles wrote:I don't see why you wouldn't retake over the next year, but at the same time, 50k/yr at Michigan looks excellent. Can you keep that option on the table in case you don't improve or would you have to withdraw in order to reapply next year?


I would have to withdraw and reapply (which sounds terrible). I think I could get a few points higher (at least break the 170s) but applications seem to be at an all time low and it seems risky without knowing what the applicant pool will look like next year. And of course there is the chance of doing worse on the LSAT.


Were you PTing in the 170s before? If you can it's probably worth it. If you think the 4.4% increase in Feb is indicative of higher applicant numbers next year (I'm not sure anyone knows yet...?) then I think you have a killer option with Michigan at 50k/yr.

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usn26
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby usn26 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:58 am

schrokm6 wrote:
OhBoyOhBortles wrote:I don't see why you wouldn't retake over the next year, but at the same time, 50k/yr at Michigan looks excellent. Can you keep that option on the table in case you don't improve or would you have to withdraw in order to reapply next year?


I would have to withdraw and reapply (which sounds terrible). I think I could get a few points higher (at least break the 170s) but applications seem to be at an all time low and it seems risky without knowing what the applicant pool will look like next year. And of course there is the chance of doing worse on the LSAT.


Why is this? Does the deferral bar you from taking the LSAT again?

If that's not the case I'd think deferring at Michigan and taking the LSAT makes sense. If you don't improve significantly, just go to Michigan. If you do, withdraw from Michigan and reapply.

schrokm6
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby schrokm6 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:17 am

usn26 wrote:
schrokm6 wrote:
OhBoyOhBortles wrote:I don't see why you wouldn't retake over the next year, but at the same time, 50k/yr at Michigan looks excellent. Can you keep that option on the table in case you don't improve or would you have to withdraw in order to reapply next year?


I would have to withdraw and reapply (which sounds terrible). I think I could get a few points higher (at least break the 170s) but applications seem to be at an all time low and it seems risky without knowing what the applicant pool will look like next year. And of course there is the chance of doing worse on the LSAT.


Why is this? Does the deferral bar you from taking the LSAT again?

If that's not the case I'd think deferring at Michigan and taking the LSAT makes sense. If you don't improve significantly, just go to Michigan. If you do, withdraw from Michigan and reapply.


I believe you have to sign an agreement to not apply to other law schools. Or do you think that means I could take the LSAT, see how I do, and i would be able to apply to other schools as long as I withdraw from Michigan first? That seems a little sketchy/ not super ethical

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usn26
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby usn26 » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:07 pm

schrokm6 wrote:
usn26 wrote:
schrokm6 wrote:
OhBoyOhBortles wrote:I don't see why you wouldn't retake over the next year, but at the same time, 50k/yr at Michigan looks excellent. Can you keep that option on the table in case you don't improve or would you have to withdraw in order to reapply next year?


I would have to withdraw and reapply (which sounds terrible). I think I could get a few points higher (at least break the 170s) but applications seem to be at an all time low and it seems risky without knowing what the applicant pool will look like next year. And of course there is the chance of doing worse on the LSAT.


Why is this? Does the deferral bar you from taking the LSAT again?

If that's not the case I'd think deferring at Michigan and taking the LSAT makes sense. If you don't improve significantly, just go to Michigan. If you do, withdraw from Michigan and reapply.


I believe you have to sign an agreement to not apply to other law schools. Or do you think that means I could take the LSAT, see how I do, and i would be able to apply to other schools as long as I withdraw from Michigan first? That seems a little sketchy/ not super ethical


Yeah, that's what I meant.

I see what you mean. I'm not totally convinced that it's different from withdrawing over the summer after depositing (say, if you got a higher LSAT score or off a wait list somewhere) in any meaningful way. Given the relative rarity of deferrals, though, I guess that could feel like a stronger commitment from the school that would require a firmer commitment on your end. So… idk. I think you could make an argument either way.

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OhBoyOhBortles
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Re: Cornell v Michigan v WUSTL

Postby OhBoyOhBortles » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:11 pm

http://www.powerscore.com/lsat/help/deferring.cfm

Accepting a deferment and then applying to another school or enrolling at another law school is looked upon as unethical and can cause serious problems during your State Bar review and inquiry.


I think you might need to make a choice before accepting your deferral.




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