Harvard for 190k?

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Mack.Hambleton
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Re: Harvard for 190k?

Postby Mack.Hambleton » Wed Apr 29, 2015 3:10 am

blueberrycrumble wrote:What do people ITT is the number at which H is a definite go? 140k? Thats what the base loans are now.


All relative based on other offers, goals etc

omegaweapon
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Re: Harvard for 190k?

Postby omegaweapon » Wed Apr 29, 2015 4:10 am

BiglawAssociate wrote:
Auxilio wrote:
BiglawAssociate wrote:
4for44 wrote:LIPP really is a great program. If you are PI focused, you'll likely pay the same amount of your salary towards loans on LIPP from HLS as you would with a LOT less loans from another place. Use the LIPP calculator (online tool) to get an estimate. If you really are PI focused, the money shouldn't be as big of a factor.

Also making 60-70 straight out seems ambitious for PI, unless your are talking Government.


Yeah more like 50k...you'll make a lot less than secretaries at biglaw firms. Maybe less than Starbucks baristas.

Is LIPP here to stay? I wouldn't trust it. Also if you want to do PI 200k debt is insane imo. EATING RAMEN FOR LIFE.


I can see some skepticism about PSLF programs, but I would bet a lot of money at horrible odds that Harvard will not change LIPP, at least for those who are already enrolled. I'm not even sure they could legally get away with that.


LOL. Is there some kind of legal contract that both parties sign? Read the small font - "program may change, etc."

Still too risky for me, in light of how the government is intent on fucking over PSLF


I don't know about Harvard, but at Yale they commit to offering you the program as it exists when you enroll. If they make changes, you can opt in or out. OP should do research obviously, but I can't imagine it being very different.

I do know that when Harvard stopped their free third year tuition for PI people, people who'd already signed up got it.

JohnnyHop
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Re: Harvard for 190k?

Postby JohnnyHop » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:39 am

If you are PI focused, I think it's also worth taking into account the fact that H will give you a grant for the two summers you work a PI job, which lowers the cost comparison between it and a place like Cornell a little bit more (I am assuming Cornell doesn't have a similar program, which may not be the case, but I know that not all t14s have an equivalent.) But as others have emphasized, make sure you're really shooting for PI.

BigZuck
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Re: Harvard for 190k?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Apr 29, 2015 8:31 am

starry eyed wrote:
BigZuck wrote:I know a prosecutor in TX who went to Harvard, she's on their LRAP and PSLF. She said having all that debt kinda screwed her when applying for a mortgage but I'm not sure how all that works. I get why people go to Harvard when they have that option (I mean, it's Harvard) but when I think of her situation I kind of wonder if she would have been better off going to, like, UT on a full ride. I wonder if she would be in the same place only with 150K less debt. But maybe the lesser debt wouldn't matter and maybe I'm underselling the long term benefits of a Harvard JD.


but we can also apply this speculation more broadly. Ideally, the best outcome is to go to the cheapest school possible and get biglaw. That can be accomplished by finishing at the top of your TTT class. But instead, if you chose to go to t14 for sticker and got biglaw, you will still wonder what if you had went to the TTT, saved money, and gotten biglaw anyway.

I don't really see how that's analagous. It's incredibly hard to finish top of the class at a TTT and get big law. PI/local gov from UT-not so much.

I don't see a scenario where someone gets a prosecutor job from Harvard but not UT. I can envision many scenarios where someone gets big law from Harvard but not, like, Saint Johns.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Harvard for 190k?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Apr 29, 2015 10:50 am

^ how certain are you that biglaw/clerkships/academia are the only areas in which Harvard provides an advantage over UT/lower T14?

Honest question. Are all prosecutors/criminal defense attorney positions across the nation equal?

BigZuck
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Re: Harvard for 190k?

Postby BigZuck » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:18 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:^ how certain are you that biglaw/clerkships/academia are the only areas in which Harvard provides an advantage over UT/lower T14?

Honest question. Are all prosecutors/criminal defense attorney positions across the nation equal?

:?:
BigZuck wrote:maybe I'm underselling the long term benefits of a Harvard JD.

I'm not sure what else I can say

Just because I don't see things working out for her differently doesn't mean I'm right. I acknowledged that.

I guess it's just my general sense of listening to the Hive when it tells me that PI is more about commitment than anything else. In the hypo I presented it's not Harvard vs South Texas College of Law. It's Harvard vs UT. For a local prosecutor job in TX. UT is kind of a big deal in Texas, I'm sure it spawns (relatively) tons of local prosecutors.

But yeah, if I'm wrong I'm wrong. I'm ok with that.

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PeanutsNJam
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Re: Harvard for 190k?

Postby PeanutsNJam » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:54 pm

Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to be combative, but the hive mind has been saying a fully at a T20>HYS lately, given that biglaw isn't a goal.

Or more specifically, insinuating that "long term benefits" of HYS, or even upper T14 JDs, don't exist. That, and all PI are made equal, and you're guaranteed PI as long as you hustle, no matter where you go. Or that all PI/biglaw are idiosyncratic, etc.

I think these forums oversimplify things, leading to a verdict that unfairly favors a certain choice.

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TasmanianToucan
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Re: Harvard for 190k?

Postby TasmanianToucan » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:59 pm

Harvard just to not be in Ithaca for three years. Also, someone around here needs to actually pay for school sooner or later so next years' 0Ls have some $$$ to chase.

Kidding... but yeah, Harvard.

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starry eyed
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Re: Harvard for 190k?

Postby starry eyed » Wed Apr 29, 2015 2:20 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to be combative, but the hive mind has been saying a fully at a T20>HYS lately, given that biglaw isn't a goal.

Or more specifically, insinuating that "long term benefits" of HYS, or even upper T14 JDs, don't exist. That, and all PI are made equal, and you're guaranteed PI as long as you hustle, no matter where you go. Or that all PI/biglaw are idiosyncratic, etc.

I think these forums oversimplify things, leading to a verdict that unfairly favors a certain choice.


kinda related to this-i think the employment data thread should be stickied bc it explains that numbers aren't what they seem to be.

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Lawperson2018
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Re: Harvard for 190k?

Postby Lawperson2018 » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:15 pm

Thanks for the input everyone! I realized I made a couple of mistakes on my Cornell calculations and my actual debt will be ~40k at graduation. Much as I'd love Harvard, I personally don't feel it's worth an additional 150k before interest plus the ten years of debt-related stress especially since I realized I'm not 100% sure of my goals.

Here's to a less glamorous but less stressful life. Somebody's probably going to get off the Harvard Waitlist now at least :D

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jbagelboy
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Re: Harvard for 190k?

Postby jbagelboy » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:31 pm

Lawperson2018 wrote:Thanks for the input everyone! I realized I made a couple of mistakes on my Cornell calculations and my actual debt will be ~40k at graduation. Much as I'd love Harvard, I personally don't feel it's worth an additional 150k before interest plus the ten years of debt-related stress especially since I realized I'm not 100% sure of my goals.

Here's to a less glamorous but less stressful life. Somebody's probably going to get off the Harvard Waitlist now at least :D


No way of knowing your life will be less "glamorous" going to one ivy league law school instead of another. Are your options/opportunities somewhat more circumscribed by the choice? Yes. Would you most likely wind up the same place from either school? Yes.

Congrats on your choice.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Harvard for 190k?

Postby blsingindisguise » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:42 pm

Lawperson2018 wrote:Thanks for the input everyone! I realized I made a couple of mistakes on my Cornell calculations and my actual debt will be ~40k at graduation. Much as I'd love Harvard, I personally don't feel it's worth an additional 150k before interest plus the ten years of debt-related stress especially since I realized I'm not 100% sure of my goals.

Here's to a less glamorous but less stressful life. Somebody's probably going to get off the Harvard Waitlist now at least :D


Unless you are prestige-crazed and/or are gunning for academia/federal judgeship, I think you made the right choice. The H edge over Cornell is probably not worth that kind of debt. And the difference between 200k and 40k of debt can mean the difference between freedom and slavery imo.

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UnicornHunter
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Re: Harvard for 190k?

Postby UnicornHunter » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:42 pm

PeanutsNJam wrote:Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to be combative, but the hive mind has been saying a fully at a T20>HYS lately, given that biglaw isn't a goal.

Or more specifically, insinuating that "long term benefits" of HYS, or even upper T14 JDs, don't exist. That, and all PI are made equal, and you're guaranteed PI as long as you hustle, no matter where you go. Or that all PI/biglaw are idiosyncratic, etc.

I think these forums oversimplify things, leading to a verdict that unfairly favors a certain choice.


I think it's more that for non-prestige PI, hustle > prestige. It's impossible to state for certain, because every office/hiring manager is going to have a different set of preferences, but I'd be surprised if there are very many PD offices in the country, for example, who are going to hire someone from Harvard vs. the kid at the local school whose done 2 years of externships with them.

blsingindisguise
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Re: Harvard for 190k?

Postby blsingindisguise » Wed Apr 29, 2015 5:44 pm

TheUnicornHunter wrote:
PeanutsNJam wrote:Just to be clear, I wasn't trying to be combative, but the hive mind has been saying a fully at a T20>HYS lately, given that biglaw isn't a goal.

Or more specifically, insinuating that "long term benefits" of HYS, or even upper T14 JDs, don't exist. That, and all PI are made equal, and you're guaranteed PI as long as you hustle, no matter where you go. Or that all PI/biglaw are idiosyncratic, etc.

I think these forums oversimplify things, leading to a verdict that unfairly favors a certain choice.


I think it's more that for non-prestige PI, hustle > prestige. It's impossible to state for certain, because every office/hiring manager is going to have a different set of preferences, but I'd be surprised if there are very many PD offices in the country, for example, who are going to hire someone from Harvard vs. the kid at the local school whose done 2 years of externships with them.


In PI I have definitely seen interest/commitment as an edge over prestige. That's not to say that the H kid has an inherent disadvantage, but the H kid who just walks in cold thinking he's going to get a PI job does have a disadvantage over the local T2 guy with demonstrated interest.




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