USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )

3.57 gpa, 168 LSAT

UC Davis, full ride
8
36%
USC, 2/3 ride ($38k per year scholarship)
7
32%
Retake (final take) and reapply (3.57 gpa)
7
32%
 
Total votes: 22

YungSlumLord
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USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby YungSlumLord » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:05 pm

Hey all, sorry to create a new thread but if you commented on the last one you will see that this one is quite different and likely warranted a new one.

As of today, I've decided against UCLA as their offer wasn't enough compared to USC and USC may have even more money available after the deposit deadline. If I do choose USC, I plan to take the LSAT one final time in June in an attempt to improve on my underperforming previous takes (high PT-er) and use this to negotiate more money.

-My Personal COAs
I will mostly be taking out loans while receiving some assistance from parents. Below are the two total COA factors I will be paying in end, assuming that I will pay them over the course of 5 years post-graduation. These numbers include loan fees and interest and are the total amount I will be paying on my own. They have had scholarship, parental assitance, and personal savings subtracted.


UC Davis: $45,000
USC: $153,000

-Where you are from and where you want to work, and other places where you have significant ties
I'm from Northern California and would prefer to work anywhere in California. I understand that going to Davis would limit me mostly to NorCal

-Your general career goals
I'm not 100% certain at this point if I wish to go down the BigLaw route, but it seems some form of private practice is likely. Obviously would give more thought to BigLaw if I choose USC

-Your LSAT/GPA numbers
168/167, 3.7



I plan to place a deposit at USC this Friday on their deadline. 1) Am I correct in assuming that they won't hear about my deposit at UC Davis until May 15 and that I have until then to withdraw from Davis if I choose USC? 2) Is my plan to retake the LSAT in June sound?

Sitting another year out is not an option for me.
Last edited by YungSlumLord on Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:24 pm, edited 4 times in total.

CanadianWolf
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby CanadianWolf » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:11 pm

Retaking is a wise move.

UC-Davis & USC are not attractive options at these prices--especially since they are after you've used up your personal savings.

Between the two options, UC-Davis is the better choice due to significantly lower COA.

If you want USC, request a full tuition scholarship. Unfortunately, your plan of retaking for more scholarship money from USC fails if you deposit at Davis.
Last edited by CanadianWolf on Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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starry eyed
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby starry eyed » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:17 pm

UC Davis is the better choice. extra 100k for +20% increase in biglaw odds?... IM NOT BUYING IT

The Dark Shepard
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby The Dark Shepard » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:24 pm

you seem to be underperforming your numbers here. You need to re-apply early next year. And thus you might as well retake anyways

Traynor Brah
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby Traynor Brah » Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:36 pm

Your stats are too good for these to be your options. Retaking and reapplying early is the best route here.

But if you are opposed to doing what's best for you, Davis is better here than USC at that cost. I don't think that debt-financed COA at USC is justifiable for any situation.

Gkmc
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby Gkmc » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:36 pm

The Dark Shepard wrote:you seem to be seriously underperforming your numbers here. You need to re-apply early next year. And thus you might as well retake anyways

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cron1834
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby cron1834 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:45 pm

Reapply for sure. Retake while you're at it, b/c it won't hurt anyway. This is weak for a 168.

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downbeat14
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby downbeat14 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:50 pm

I know u say that sitting out is not an option. Why? Bc u don't want to? Bc that is a bad reason. TCR is reapply next year. Gun for a higher LSAT and profit. Your options are not good considering your numbers, or at all actually.

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NotASpecialSnowflake
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby NotASpecialSnowflake » Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:54 pm

Reapplying and retaking is the best choice here. I know you said that you can't wait a year, but if someone paid you $110,000 to sit out a year, would you do it?

LSN results for your numbers:

Image

Don't leave $$ on the table like that.

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rpupkin
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby rpupkin » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:03 pm

That's too much debt for USC.

If you want to work in Northern California and you don't want big law, then a full ride at UC Davis is a decent outcome. But if you want more options, then, yeah, you've got to retake.

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downbeat14
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby downbeat14 » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:36 pm

OP, can u add "neither/retake/reapply" to the poll? I'll vote then.

YungSlumLord
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby YungSlumLord » Tue Apr 28, 2015 8:55 pm

rpupkin wrote:That's too much debt for USC.

If you want to work in Northern California and you don't want big law, then a full ride at UC Davis is a decent outcome. But if you want more options, then, yeah, you've got to retake.


aside from BigLaw, what outcomes (besides less debt) would I be afforded by retaking than by accepting Davis' offer?

Traynor Brah
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby Traynor Brah » Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:50 pm

Well what outcomes do you want from davis? Have a feeling you don't really know.

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starry eyed
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby starry eyed » Tue Apr 28, 2015 10:14 pm

YungSlumLord wrote:
rpupkin wrote:That's too much debt for USC.

If you want to work in Northern California and you don't want big law, then a full ride at UC Davis is a decent outcome. But if you want more options, then, yeah, you've got to retake.


aside from BigLaw, what outcomes (besides less debt) would I be afforded by retaking than by accepting Davis' offer?


a law firm with 2-26 attorneys, gov't/public defender, pretty much the same as USC with less mobility (and - 20% chance at biglaw) and you will likely be contained to NoCal. check out LST to see where grads end up.

and possibly starbucks (but that't a possibility from either school tbh)

californiauser
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby californiauser » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:34 pm

Davis for 45k isn't bad if you want PI or small law/DA office

I wouldn't pay anywhere near 6 figures for any non-T14 school because you basically need to go on loan forgiveness or get big law. You don't seem interested in PI and big law is unlikely from USC.

Traynor Brah
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby Traynor Brah » Tue Apr 28, 2015 11:43 pm

californiauser wrote:I wouldn't pay anywhere near 6 figures for any non-T14 school because you basically need to go on loan forgiveness or get big law. You don't seem interested in PI and big law is unlikely from USC.

Meh. UT is pretty easily worth 100K for a Texan. Vandy is worth six figs in a lot of situations. I think it's a fair price for SoCal natives/gunners to pay for UCLA too, and, if USC is going to maintain 40% biglaw, pry them as well. 150? Naw.

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LawsRUs
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby LawsRUs » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:16 am

YungSlumLord wrote:I plan to place a deposit at USC this Friday on their deadline. 1) Am I correct in assuming that they won't hear about my deposit at UC Davis until May 15 and that I have until then to withdraw from Davis if I choose USC? 2) Is my plan to retake the LSAT in June sound?


1) USC won't hear about your deposit at UC Davis until mid-May. However, from reading the scholarship letter, it was my understanding that if USC sees your name on that list, the admissions has the right to revoke your scholarship offer, while although you are not necessarily losing your seat in the incoming class. Some of us agreed in some other threads that the wording was clear when it said, "If you elect to pay our tuition [first] deposit, you must withdraw from all other law schools to which you have been admitted." Whether you are willing to risk losing your scholarship at USC for whatever reason (be it negotiating with Davis or what have you) is one that you will have to make.

2) Yes, you have nothing to lose by retaking in June. Good luck!

californiauser
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby californiauser » Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:53 am

Traynor Brah wrote:
californiauser wrote:I wouldn't pay anywhere near 6 figures for any non-T14 school because you basically need to go on loan forgiveness or get big law. You don't seem interested in PI and big law is unlikely from USC.

Meh. UT is pretty easily worth 100K for a Texan. Vandy is worth six figs in a lot of situations. I think it's a fair price for SoCal natives/gunners to pay for UCLA too, and, if USC is going to maintain 40% biglaw, pry them as well. 150? Naw.


1. I gave my subjective threshold for what I would pay for non-14. It wasn't a general assertion.

2. OP isn't considering Vandy or Texas--not sure how those schools are relevant to the discussion.

Traynor Brah
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby Traynor Brah » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:38 am

californiauser wrote:
Traynor Brah wrote:
californiauser wrote:I wouldn't pay anywhere near 6 figures for any non-T14 school because you basically need to go on loan forgiveness or get big law. You don't seem interested in PI and big law is unlikely from USC.

Meh. UT is pretty easily worth 100K for a Texan. Vandy is worth six figs in a lot of situations. I think it's a fair price for SoCal natives/gunners to pay for UCLA too, and, if USC is going to maintain 40% biglaw, pry them as well. 150? Naw.


1. I gave my subjective threshold for what I would pay for non-14. It wasn't a general assertion.

2. OP isn't considering Vandy or Texas--not sure how those schools are relevant to the discussion.

I read it that you were categorically saying no non t14s were worth close to 100k, period. My b.

YungSlumLord
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby YungSlumLord » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:29 pm

So I hadn't done this previously, but just ran my transcript through an CAS GPA calculator. I hadn't done this before until now. I started college at one school, didn't make the transition from high school well, and did poorly while securing grades. Then I transferred sophomore year and got excellent grades. I had just assumed that my 2nd half grades more than made up for my first half grades and gave a rough estimate.

Well, apparently the GPA I've been applying to schools with has been a 3.57

Looking at LSN, it would seem that $38k a year is probably more than I'd normally merit. I'm restarting the poll now given these numbers, let me know how this changes everyone's opinions. It just seems I'd have to largely surpass my 168 on a retake to hope for any better offers when applying next cycle, and given that I got a 167 on my retake I'm unsure how likely that is.


Wish I would have studied/gone to class/read a syllabus my frosh year in undergrad, haha.

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NotASpecialSnowflake
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby NotASpecialSnowflake » Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:40 pm

Retaking and reapplying is still the best option here

YungSlumLord
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby YungSlumLord » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:23 pm

NotASpecialSnowflake wrote:Retaking and reapplying is still the best option here


Please elaborate.

Prestige Regionwide
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby Prestige Regionwide » Wed Apr 29, 2015 1:28 pm

YungSlumLord wrote:
NotASpecialSnowflake wrote:Retaking and reapplying is still the best option here


Please elaborate.


By answering five or so more questions on the LSAT you will likely be looking at USC with a full scholarship or T14 options with minimal debt.

Additionally, you gain a year of work experience and can save a few thousand bucks to reduce your future debt.

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NotASpecialSnowflake
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby NotASpecialSnowflake » Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:34 pm

YungSlumLord wrote:
NotASpecialSnowflake wrote:Retaking and reapplying is still the best option here


Please elaborate.


Your GPA change hurts it somewhat, but if you can improve your LSAT by just two points, you are looking at 80k from lower T-14 schools. I don't know your goals/have much experience in Cali, but it just seems silly to me to retake in June and hope USC gives you more $$. Just wait a year, focus your efforts into the LSAT and you will have a better outcome. Plus a bad 2nd take doesn't mean you can't do well on a third take. Make sure your PT scores are in the range you want before you take the test.

Also if you change the poll every two seconds, you won't get accurate results.

YungSlumLord
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Re: USC (2/3 ride) vs. UC Davis (full ride)

Postby YungSlumLord » Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:46 pm

NotASpecialSnowflake wrote:
YungSlumLord wrote:
NotASpecialSnowflake wrote:Retaking and reapplying is still the best option here


Please elaborate.


Your GPA change hurts it somewhat, but if you can improve your LSAT by just two points, you are looking at 80k from lower T-14 schools. I don't know your goals/have much experience in Cali, but it just seems silly to me to retake in June and hope USC gives you more $$. Just wait a year, focus your efforts into the LSAT and you will have a better outcome. Plus a bad 2nd take doesn't mean you can't do well on a third take. Make sure your PT scores are in the range you want before you take the test.

Also if you change the poll every two seconds, you won't get accurate results.



Just trying to make sure the poll reflected the most recent information. If the assumption is that I would improve on the LSAT, then I'd definitely say yes it would be worth it to sit out a year and retake. I don't think it's wise to assume that I'll do any better the third time around. I feel as though the historic data is against me... How many actually improved on their third take? And how many of that number compared to those who didn't improve or did worse?

But at this point, here are my considerations:
- BigLaw is not a make or break for me. I'd be just as happy with modest goals in NorCal, and any connections I do have in the field are here.
- My family lives 40 minutes away from Davis, so I feel like just being in close proximity to parents invites more opportunities to have expenses covered by them and even further savings on the CoA. The support factor doesn't hurt either. Living at home 3L year isn't out of the question.
- You may disagree, but I feel Davis' employment stats are on the rebound and it will continue to be the strongest regional degree in Sacramento (which is a city on the rise and I expect the employment prospects to improve)
- If I were to retake and improve 1-2 points, I'm still very concerned about where my 3.57 GPA would take me. As mentioned above, the odds of me actually improving coupled with this GPA makes sitting out another year questionable. Given my debt and working in CA concerns, there are few T14 offers I could get that would justify a retake given my goals. Too much of a what if to expect a higher score and better money from USC too.

Among other considerations. Thanks for the assistance though, everyone. Assuming USC doesn't respond to me today with an amazing offer, which they won't, I'll be choosing Davis. I think we can all agree that that is way too much to pay for USC, but I think that a retake is out of the question.




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